There is only one true church

[Brakelite]

There are at least 2 different religions represented here.
Catholicism. Holds tradition to be above scripture. Designates a coterie of priests and prelates as the only authorised teachers and expositors of Scripture. They themselves are subject to their superiors known as the magisterium. The priest cannot teach a personal understanding of Scripture according to his own study our spiritual relationship with Christ, if he has one, but can only teach what he is told to teach. The Catechism is held in esteem with fat greater respect than the Bible, because the Catechism takes into account both the word of God and tradition.

Jehovah's Witnesses. Little different from above, only their magisterium is called the watchtower. Both the above institutions have no tolerance for teaching other than their self proclaimed orthodoxy, and disfellowship those who may insist on an understanding of Scripture differ from their own. JWs also hold to certain traditions above scripture. In that, the above 2 are very similar.

The third group do not place their trust men, but in the scriptures alone. While they may have teachers who expound of the Bible, they insist that an individual member of a congregation study for himself. If the Holy Spirit is truly the anointed one in the above scenario, then all will find their way to the one truth, and thus one will have a united flock, with the word of God as the foundation for faith and practise, and the Word of God, the Creator Son, will stand as the sole Mediator between man and God.

 

[Keiw]

Just like the RCC = you guys are buddies = BFF

JW,s expose the rcc as false religion all the way=not buddies.

 

[RedFan]

Catholicism. Holds tradition to be above scripture.

I am not Catholic, but I've not seen this hierarchy espoused by the Catholic Church. I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that the Catholic Church acknowledges the primacy of Scripture over tradition (which is viewed as more of an authoritative gap-filler where Scripture is silent or ambiguous).

 

[David in NJ]

I am not Catholic, but I've not seen this hierarchy espoused by the Catholic Church. I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that the Catholic Church acknowledges the primacy of Scripture over tradition (which is viewed as more of an authoritative gap-filler where Scripture is silent or ambiguous).

Allow me to interject and include @Augustin56

i was born into a RCC family where both my father and mother were also born into RCC families.

Strictly raised as a roman catholic, attending full time RCC grade school, church attendance, baptized as a baby, later Confirmed to receive penance for confessing my weekly sins to a certified RCC priest and the most important of all = to receive what they call the holy eucharist.
In addition to this i earnestly participated in praying to Mary on the repetitious rosary beads, praying to the saints, lighting candles at the special ceremonies, Ash Wednesday, Easter, Christmas and so on and so on............

You would think with all that participation i should of been Born-Again!
After all , i earned it being obedient in all that the RCC taught me.

TRUTH is that no one can earn Salvation.
As a matter of fact and TRUTH, God says that anyone who attempts to work their way into Heaven will be thrust out before they even get close to the Door.

God established this Fact with the Israelites in commanding them not to work on the Sabbath, for if anyone did they were put to DEATH.

Exodus 31:12-15 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

This is called a Double Declaration by GOD = HE means what HE says and says what HE means = Life or Death consequences

JESUS says the SAME = John 3:16-21 = We either place our complete trust in His Salvation, in His FINISHED Work on the Cross for our sins or we try to earn it and thus NEVER are cleansed of our sins.

We can only receive Salvation thru Faith in exactly what God tells us = His Gospel = "not of works lest any man should boast"

 

[Brakelite]

I am not Catholic, but I've not seen this hierarchy espoused by the Catholic Church. I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that the Catholic Church acknowledges the primacy of Scripture over tradition (which is viewed as more of an authoritative gap-filler where Scripture is silent or ambiguous).

The council of Trent was convened for several purposes. Find a means by which to stop the catastrophic leaking of its members into the reform churches, and find a way to counter the protestant battle cry, the scriptures and the scriptures alone as the foundation of faith and practise. Sola dcriptura.
As the Archbishop of Reggio said several hundred years ago, and he was correct, (and note, this is the council of Trent) "Protestants cannot claim any integrity with their exaltation of sola scriptura because they observed the first day of the week, Sunday, and in doing so revealed their continuing obedience to a tradition of the Catholic Church, a tradition not found any where in scripture".

Catholicism happily will tell you that tradition "informs" the interpretations of Scripture decided by the magisterium. However, in exalting Sunday as a day of sacred assembly, Catholicism denies the authority of Scripture altogether, and exalts tradition above it. Their own authority therefore is honoured even above the very commandments of God regarding the true Sabbath.

 

[RedFan]

The council of Trent was convened for several purposes. Find a means by which to stop the catastrophic leaking of its members into the reform churches, and find a way to counter the protestant battle cry, the scriptures and the scriptures alone as the foundation of faith and practise. Sola dcriptura.
As the Archbishop of Reggio said several hundred years ago, and he was correct, (and note, this is the council of Trent) "Protestants cannot claim any integrity with their exaltation of sola scriptura because they observed the first day of the week, Sunday, and in doing so revealed their continuing obedience to a tradition of the Catholic Church, a tradition not found any where in scripture".

Catholicism happily will tell you that tradition "informs" the interpretations of Scripture decided by the magisterium. However, in exalting Sunday as a day of sacred assembly, Catholicism denies the authority of Scripture altogether, and exalts tradition above it. Their own authority therefore is honoured even above the very commandments of God regarding the true Sabbath.

I suspect the Archbishop would have said that the tradition of Sunday worship does not contradict Scripture. 99% of Christendom (myself included) says the same. So I am still looking for a declaration by the Catholic Church that tradition trumps Scripture (which, I think, was your thesis). Is that an inference from its Sunday worship, or an express position of the Church?

 

[amigo de christo]

Allow me to interject and include @Augustin56

i was born into a RCC family where both my father and mother were also born into RCC families.

Strictly raised as a roman catholic, attending full time RCC grade school, church attendance, baptized as a baby, later Confirmed to receive penance for confessing my weekly sins to a certified RCC priest and the most important of all = to receive what they call the holy eucharist.
In addition to this i earnestly participated in praying to Mary on the repetitious rosary beads, praying to the saints, lighting candles at the special ceremonies, Ash Wednesday, Easter, Christmas and so on and so on............

You would think with all that participation i should of been Born-Again!
After all , i earned it being obedient in all that the RCC taught me.

TRUTH is that no one can earn Salvation.
As a matter of fact and TRUTH, God says that anyone who attempts to work their way into Heaven will be thrust out before they even get close to the Door.

God established this Fact with the Israelites in commanding them not to work on the Sabbath, for if anyone did they were put to DEATH.

Exodus 31:12-15 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

This is called a Double Declaration by GOD = HE means what HE says and says what HE means = Life or Death consequences

JESUS says the SAME = John 3:16-21 = We either place our complete trust in His Salvation, in His FINISHED Work on the Cross for our sins or we try to earn it and thus NEVER are cleansed of our sins.

We can only receive Salvation thru Faith in exactly what God tells us = His Gospel = "not of works lest any man should boast"

There was a pattern once set that was given unto the hebrews .
the pattern was the pattern OF THE HEAVENLY but was not the heavenly itself . THIS pattern
was to lead to CHRIST JESUS who would later enter into THE VERY HEAVENLY ITSELF .
just as there was an earthly tabernacle that was built by the pattern of the heavenly , BUT NOT the heavenly
just as there was an earthen jersualem , now the HEAVENLY JERSUSALEM and those whose faith be in CHRIST have entered into
the heavenly themselves by HE , CHRIST JESUS , who has entered into the heavenly
just as the law , torah and prophets , abraham and others
ALL were shown to WHOM THIS WAS TO LEAD THEM . to HE WHO IS HEAVENLY
and has entered into the HEAVENLY .
and as there was a pattern of rest given unto the jews by the law
that same law and prophets , even abraham himself , WOULD POINT TO THE TRUE SABBATH OF GOD
wherein all things are no longer a shadow of the heavenly , BUT THE HEAVENLY ITSELF . . THERE IS A SABBATH that many have not entered into david .
THIS IS A FACT . and its a serious fact .
THERE is a temple that many DO NOT KNOW OF and rather seek that which is earthen but not that which is heavenly .
THE SABBATH I speak of is THE TRUE REST OF MAN , given to all who could not enter into it by thier own works
BY can enter into by HE WHO FULLIFLLED all that was necessary .
MANY have not entered into that rest
many do have not entered into that work , that labor .
THE work that says , THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD that YE BELIEVE ON HE WHOM GOD DID SEND
as they either follow another jesus or a false religion all together .
MANY have no laborored to enter into that rest . they have labored under the doctrines of men
who have preached another jesus . Now i leave us with these words .
ANd though i did not say them first , I KNOW THEM BE TRUE .
COME unto ME all you who do labor and are weary and YE shall find REST for your souls .

 

[David in NJ]

There was a pattern once set that was given unto the hebrews .
the pattern was the pattern OF THE HEAVENLY but was not the heavenly itself . THIS pattern
was to lead to CHRIST JESUS who would later enter into THE VERY HEAVENLY ITSELF .
just as there was an earthly tabernacle that was built by the pattern of the heavenly , BUT NOT the heavenly
just as there was an earthen jersualem , now the HEAVENLY JERSUSALEM and those whose faith be in CHRIST have entered into
the heavenly themselves by HE , CHRIST JESUS , who has entered into the heavenly
just as the law , torah and prophets , abraham and others
ALL were shown to WHOM THIS WAS TO LEAD THEM . to HE WHO IS HEAVENLY
and has entered into the HEAVENLY .
and as there was a pattern of rest given unto the jews by the law
that same law and prophets , even abraham himself , WOULD POINT TO THE TRUE SABBATH OF GOD
wherein all things are no longer a shadow of the heavenly , BUT THE HEAVENLY ITSELF . . THERE IS A SABBATH that many have not entered into david .
THIS IS A FACT . and its a serious fact .
THERE is a temple that many DO NOT KNOW OF and rather seek that which is earthen but not that which is heavenly .
THE SABBATH I speak of is THE TRUE REST OF MAN , given to all who could not enter into it by thier own works
BY can enter into by HE WHO FULLIFLLED all that was necessary .
MANY have not entered into that rest
many do have not entered into that work , that labor .
THE work that says , THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD that YE BELIEVE ON HE WHOM GOD DID SEND
as they either follow another jesus or a false religion all together .
MANY have no laborored to enter into that rest . they have labored under the doctrines of men
who have preached another jesus . Now i leave us with these words .
ANd though i did not say them first , I KNOW THEM BE TRUE .
COME unto ME all you who do labor and are weary and YE shall find REST for your souls .

1000% TRUTH

the heavenly themselves by HE , CHRIST JESUS , who has entered into the heavenly

and we ENTER the HEAVENLY thru HIM who is Seated at the Right Hand of God by the Holy Spirit

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

HalleluYAH

 

[amigo de christo]

1000% TRUTH



and we ENTER the HEAVENLY thru HIM who is Seated at the Right Hand of God by the Holy Spirit

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

HalleluYAH

many know not
many have not come
for many know not or have come to the TRUE JESUS THE CHRIST . i say that not to condemn but simply to make aware .
to make aware of the DIRE NEED for folks to OPEN SOME BIBLE and learn THAT JESUS and them words .

 

[Marvelloustime]

many know not
many have not come
for many know not or have come to the TRUE JESUS THE CHRIST . i say that not to condemn but simply to make aware .
to make aware of the DIRE NEED for folks to OPEN SOME BIBLE and learn THAT JESUS and them words .

@amigo de christo

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't refuse. I am a Jehovah witness. Happy to be one.

Thank you.
Thant answers everything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not Catholic, but I've not seen this hierarchy espoused by the Catholic Church. I thought -- and am happy to be corrected -- that the Catholic Church acknowledges the primacy of Scripture over tradition (which is viewed as more of an authoritative gap-filler where Scripture is silent or ambiguous).

Uhhh - NO you're not.
I've been proving you wrong about Sacred Tradition for weeks now and you still refuseto accept the truth . . .

You keep misrepresenting Sacred Tradition by conflating it with tradition (small "t").

 

[RedFan]

Uhhh - NO you're not.
I've been proving you wrong about Sacred Tradition for weeks now and you still refuseto accept the truth . . .

You keep misrepresenting Sacred Tradition by conflating it with tradition (small "t").

I simply asked @Brakelight a question and used HIS terminology, which was "tradition," to ask him to clarify. Take it up with him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Allow me to interject and include @Augustin56

i was born into a RCC family where both my father and mother were also born into RCC families.

Strictly raised as a roman catholic, attending full time RCC grade school, church attendance, baptized as a baby, later Confirmed to receive penance for confessing my weekly sins to a certified RCC priest and the most important of all = to receive what they call the holy eucharist.
In addition to this i earnestly participated in praying to Mary on the repetitious rosary beads, praying to the saints, lighting candles at the special ceremonies, Ash Wednesday, Easter, Christmas and so on and so on............

You would think with all that participation i should of been Born-Again!
After all , i earned it being obedient in all that the RCC taught me.

TRUTH is that no one can earn Salvation.
As a matter of fact and TRUTH, God says that anyone who attempts to work their way into Heaven will be thrust out before they even get close to the Door.

God established this Fact with the Israelites in commanding them not to work on the Sabbath, for if anyone did they were put to DEATH.

Exodus 31:12-15 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

This is called a Double Declaration by GOD = HE means what HE says and says what HE means = Life or Death consequences

JESUS says the SAME = John 3:16-21 = We either place our complete trust in His Salvation, in His FINISHED Work on the Cross for our sins or we try to earn it and thus NEVER are cleansed of our sins.

We can only receive Salvation thru Faith in exactly what God tells us = His Gospel = "not of works lest any man should boast"

Apparently, you went through all of the motions if being “Catholic” – but unfortunately, you didn’t actually learn anything. You went through years of ignorance, which finally led to your being seduced out of the Church.
You were born-again at Baptism - just as Peter proclaimed in Acts 2:38.

As for your reference to Eph. 2:8-9 – WHY is it that Protestants always leave out the very next verse??
Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And, in the next verse . . .
Eph. 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Works ARE necessary, as they are an essential element of faith – NOT simply a “byproduct”. You can’t even HAVE true faith without works. We can't boast about them because they are works created by GOD for us to complete.
THIS is why James says:

James 2:24-25
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

[David in NJ]

Apparently, you went through all of the motions if being “Catholic” – but unfortunately, you didn’t actually learn anything. You went through years of ignorance, which finally led to your being seduced out of the Church.
You were born-again at Baptism - just as Peter proclaimed in Acts 2:38.

As for your reference to Eph. 2:8-9 – WHY is it that Protestants always leave out the very next verse??
Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And, in the next verse . . .
Eph. 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Works ARE necessary, as they are an essential element of faith – NOT simply a “byproduct”. You can’t even HAVE true faith without works. We can't boast about them because they are works created by GOD for us to complete.
THIS is why James says:

James 2:24-25
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Apparently, you went through all of the motions if being “Catholic” – but unfortunately, you didn’t actually learn anything.

The Scriptures you post do not apply to RCC.

The TRUTH is only for those Sanctified in the Precious Blood of CHRIST.

Your sanctification comes from the Vatican and Her works will be judged with FIRE from the Presence of the LORD Jesus Christ.

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Your church, the Vatican is "outside" of SALVATION for you exchange the Truth for a lie and worship idols made by men's hands, not to mention the many many pedophile priests, cardinals, bishops that have been exposed over the years = most of which has yet to be exposed!!!

 

[Brakelite]

I suspect the Archbishop would have said that the tradition of Sunday worship does not contradict Scripture. 99% of Christendom (myself included) says the same. So I am still looking for a declaration by the Catholic Church that tradition trumps Scripture (which, I think, was your thesis). Is that an inference from its Sunday worship, or an express position of the Church?

Uhhh - NO you're not.
I've been proving you wrong about Sacred Tradition for weeks now and you still refuseto accept the truth . . .

You keep misrepresenting Sacred Tradition by conflating it with tradition (small "t").

Who decides what tradition is sacred, and which is ummm, profane? The scriptures, or the church?

Quote, Redfan...Is that an inference from its Sunday worship, or an express position of the Church?
It's both, and more. There are several other hard core doctrines of Rome that are considered infallible, and which incidentally were adopted by Protestantism. So it's heavily ironic really. Adventists disagree with Catholics and Protestants on a few doctrines which both faith paradigms seem utterly reluctant to give up. None of them are conclusively taught by Scripture, Rome claims one of them as exclusively based on catholic tradition, Sunday, and rebukes Protestantism for not sticking with sola scriptura, the others, some Protestants are compromising on and taking the Catholic position, (justification by faith alone) while others the Protestants claim Scripture as their foundation and agree with Catholicism on them, but are contrary to Adventism. Those are the natural immortality of the soul, and eternal conscious torment. It's a mess. Adventists don't belueve any of them are biblically justified, one in particular utterly repulsive for what it says concerning the character of God, one completely usurps the nature of God, man claiming something for himself that belongs only to God, the third requiring a change in the laws of God which scripture says are eternal and unchangeable... one could say infallible.

 

[ChristinaL]

Good point. It boils down to authority. True authority is always given, not taken. And Christ clearly gave His authority to govern and sanctify to Peter and his successors, the Popes, and in a general way to the Apostles and their successors.

Jesus didn't give authority to anyoe to found a separate Church apart from the one He founded, and which is the only one that can trace itself back to the time of Jesus.

Jesus didnt give His authority to Peter. Peter James and John were considered the pillars of the church not one man ( Gat 2:9). Peter was never Pope (A pagan title to begin with). Or if you want to say Bishop of Rome that doesnt work either because Peter was NEVER there. Its even highly questionable whether or not he even died in Rome.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Scriptures you post do not apply to RCC.

The TRUTH is only for those Sanctified in the Precious Blood of CHRIST.

Your sanctification comes from the Vatican and Her works will be judged with FIRE from the Presence of the LORD Jesus Christ.

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Funny, comping from a Protestant, whose very doctrines and beliefs depend on the Catholic Church who declared the Canin of Scripture. You wouldn’t even know what a Bible was, had it not been for the Catholic Church . . .

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Your church, the Vatican is "outside" of SALVATION for you exchange the Truth for a lie and worship idols made by men's hands, not to mention the many many pedophile priests, cardinals, bishops that have been exposed over the years = most of which has yet to be exposed!!!

Ummm, we don’t “worship” anybody or anything other than almighty GOD.
Your false witness is duly noted . . .

As for your remark about “pedophile” priests – people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
They’re in YOUR backyard as well. Hypocrisy is an UGLY thing . . .

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[AcadianaRanger]

To be honest, Roman Catholicism has been around for 2,000 years and I follow the Roman Catholic Church. I pray the Hail Mary all the time and I never use the KJV of the Bible. The King James Bible was not the first English translation of the Bible. I personally believe that God did not give us the Bible, he gave us the Church and I follow the Christian traditions that predate the Reformation. I also believe being "born again" is done through the Sacrament of Baptism (Baptism usually occurs when the one being baptized is a few weeks old). Baptism removes the Original Sin. To be born again, one must be born of the water and of the spirit. The above is what I believe in and to be honest, whether a person goes to Heaven and Hell is for Jesus Christ to judge and not for other humans to judge. I personally reject the teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin and Reformation Day is never celebrated in my household and in my family. The Douay-Rheims Bible predates the KJV which was published in the year 1582. The KJV was published in the year 1611. The Douay-Rheims Bible is what I personally believe to be the accurate Bible that I go by.

The above is a personal expression of what I believe.

 

[RedFan]

To be honest, Roman Catholicism has been around for 2,000 years and I follow the Roman Catholic Church. I pray the Hail Mary all the time and I never use the KJV of the Bible. The King James Bible was not the first English translation of the Bible. I personally believe that God did not give us the Bible, he gave us the Church and I follow the Christian traditions that predate the Reformation. I also believe being "born again" is done through the Sacrament of Baptism (Baptism usually occurs when the one being baptized is a few weeks old). Baptism removes the Original Sin. To be born again, one must be born of the water and of the spirit. The above is what I believe in and to be honest, whether a person goes to Heaven and Hell is for Jesus Christ to judge and not for other humans to judge. I personally reject the teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin and Reformation Day is never celebrated in my household and in my family. The Douay-Rheims Bible predates the KJV which was published in the year 1582. The KJV was published in the year 1611.

The above is a personal expression of what I believe.

Hang fast to your beliefs! I'm not Catholic, and I don't understand why the KJV not being the first English translation makes one whit of difference here, but I always appreciate someone who stands up for their faith, even when it is under attack (which, by the way, is something you should be prepared for on this site; the anti-Catholic faction is vociferous).