There is only one true church

[RedFan]

Daniel 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( Jesus)( = a created being) was given a kingship) appointed by the Ancient of days=God=YHVH(Jehovah).

Yup, that's what Daniel saw -- someone like a son of man, someone like a human being, given a kingship by God. Everyone agrees that Daniel's vision was of the incarnate Son, Jesus Christ. What's your point? That because the Son became the man Jesus Christ, the Son (not just his flesh) must have been "created?" That conclusion just does not follow, my friend.

The Son of God existed long before the man Jesus Christ entered the world.

 

[Hobie]

Sabbatarians challenge from Scripture:

John 20:1
Acts 20:7
1 Corinthians 16:2
Revelation 1:10

Sabbatarians ignore (twist) Scripture.

Sabbatarians challenge from Christian history:

The Didache
The Epistle of Barnabas
Ignatius of Antioch
Justin Martyr


Sabbatarians ignore the writings of the men who lived closest to the time of Christ and instead choose to listen to men who lived 1,600 years later.

That is why Sabbatarians make up such a small percentage of Christianity because neither Scripture nor Christian history is on their side and most people are not easily fooled.

With that said I know the facts I have just presented will not change your mind. But my goal was not to change your mind.....It is to reveal the Truth: John 8:32

Need to study more below the surface and read your history on the Greeks and how they pick up and passed on to the Romans the ancient Babylonian sun gods and system of worship...

'...Pope is a shortened title for Pontifex Maximus. In Greek it means father. The Pontifex Maximus (meaning king of sacrifices or servant to the triads, as well as the "greatest bridge-maker between the gods and men") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. It's a pagan title that was incorporated from the Etruscan-Latin polytheistic culture (700 BC) who lived before the Romans. These early people (just like the Romans) had built great temples to the gods and goddess of the day. They also had a pagan triad. Eventually the Etruscans were conquered by Rome.

The title Pontifex Maximus (Pope) is mentioned numerous times by the early Catholic Church fathers (especially by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Catholic bishop until much later on. The early Catholics said that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom," the evil high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. This post was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. It's last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian (reigned 375-383). He was then urged by the Catholic bishops to renounce the cultic Roman title, and instead grant it to their exalted leading bishop over Rome.

Pontifex Maximus is a name that's being used by the Roman Catholic Church clergy today. Though it may be abbreviated into Pope or Papa, yet it's clearly a title incorporated directly from paganism. Interesting to note that the all the pagan pontiffs or popes held that office for life. Exactly like the Catholics Popes. And their cult members met and elected a successor, who after his election became the next Pope or Pontifex Maximus (Dionys. II.22, 73). Just like the election held by the Catholic Church cardinals to choose a new Pope. The Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Many historians agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names. Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."...'
http://www.upublish.info/Article/The-Pope--Pontifex-Maximus-/693298

By the time of Emperor Constantine, the Christian religion received imperial sanction and the bishop of Rome became more than just another bishop, and brought in a system of worship from another origin than Christianity.

After the fall of Rome, the Bishop of Rome served as a source of authority and continuity from the old empire but Rome had also been the center of the pagan priests and their temples during the Roman Empire, and they did not go away. The Bishop of Rome, to bring in more converts brought what they were familiar with and allowed the traditional Roman mysteries and deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus and idol worship back into the church, along with its Pagan doctrines, graven images and ceremonies. It renamed the mother goddess and others that were worshiped and brought them into the church at Rome, then with its influence it spread into the other centers of Christianity.

 

[RedFan]

Need to study more below the surface and read your history on the Greeks and how they pick up and passed on to the Romans the ancient Babylonian sun gods and system of worship...

'...Pope is a shortened title for Pontifex Maximus. In Greek it means father. The Pontifex Maximus (meaning king of sacrifices or servant to the triads, as well as the "greatest bridge-maker between the gods and men") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. It's a pagan title that was incorporated from the Etruscan-Latin polytheistic culture (700 BC) who lived before the Romans. These early people (just like the Romans) had built great temples to the gods and goddess of the day. They also had a pagan triad. Eventually the Etruscans were conquered by Rome.

The title Pontifex Maximus (Pope) is mentioned numerous times by the early Catholic Church fathers (especially by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Catholic bishop until much later on. The early Catholics said that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom," the evil high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. This post was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. It's last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian (reigned 375-383). He was then urged by the Catholic bishops to renounce the cultic Roman title, and instead grant it to their exalted leading bishop over Rome.

Pontifex Maximus is a name that's being used by the Roman Catholic Church clergy today. Though it may be abbreviated into Pope or Papa, yet it's clearly a title incorporated directly from paganism. Interesting to note that the all the pagan pontiffs or popes held that office for life. Exactly like the Catholics Popes. And their cult members met and elected a successor, who after his election became the next Pope or Pontifex Maximus (Dionys. II.22, 73). Just like the election held by the Catholic Church cardinals to choose a new Pope. The Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Many historians agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names. Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."...'
http://www.upublish.info/Article/The-Pope--Pontifex-Maximus-/693298

By the time of Emperor Constantine, the Christian religion received imperial sanction and the bishop of Rome became more than just another bishop, and brought in a system of worship from another origin than Christianity.

After the fall of Rome, the Bishop of Rome served as a source of authority and continuity from the old empire but Rome had also been the center of the pagan priests and their temples during the Roman Empire, and they did not go away. The Bishop of Rome, to bring in more converts brought what they were familiar with and allowed the traditional Roman mysteries and deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus and idol worship back into the church, along with its Pagan doctrines, graven images and ceremonies. It renamed the mother goddess and others that were worshiped and brought them into the church at Rome, then with its influence it spread into the other centers of Christianity.

I've seen this post before,: What is the wine of the wrath of her fornication? Are you the "Rick H" who posted it then?

 

[Augustin56]

But Moses and Elijah didn't go to heaven when they left this earth did they: No one has ever entered Heaven except the one who came from Heaven, the son of man John3:13

Heaven was not open when Moses and Elijah died. Jesus had not come yet.

 

[RedFan]

Heaven was not open when Moses and Elijah died. Jesus had not come yet.

That makes 2 Kings 2:11 apocryphal. (I'm fine with that, by the way.)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke 22:29-30= a covenant made to those who will sit on thrones--proves you are wrong about what Paul said.

You have perverted God’s Word.

Jesus isn’t setting a “limit” as to which followers get to receive the Eucharist in Luke 22:29-30. He is telling His Apostles – His inner circle of what awaits THEM in Heaven as leaders of His Church. He is talking about a hierarchy.

That’s why we read in Ephesians 4:11 –
“And Christ’s gifts were that SOME should be called apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers.”

This is echoed in 1 Cor 12:28-29 . . .

The Pope just declared to Catholics in the USA--Vote for the lesser of 2 evils---Jesus would condone 0 votes cast for an evil, proving The Pope does not know Jesus and vica versa.

NOT voting isn’t the answer. In fact – it’s just as wrong as sinning.

EVERY time you vote – it us for the lesser of the 2 evils in your eyes because NO ONE is good but God (Mark 10:18). The Pope is absolutely right . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You affirm what I do not deny. Sure, oral and written tradition are equally binding. Sure, 2 Thess. 2:15 (unlike 2 Tim. 3:16) is about both oral and written tradition. I'm the last person to disagree with either of those propositions!

The ONLY thing I have been concerned with here -- and the thing you just can't seem to focus on, no matter how hard I try to focus you -- is the meaning of "graphe" in 2 Tim. 3:16. It means the OT, and nothing else. I'm not taking 2 Tim 3:16 out of context. There is just nothing in the context of the letter to suggest otherwise.

Is all Scripture, both OT and NT, God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness? Absolutely! Did Paul so declare? I don't know, I haven't read everything he's ever written, nor was I around to hear him preach. Did Paul so declare in 2 Tim: 3:16? NO WAY!

For the LAST time:
The HOLY SPIRIT is the Author of Scripture – NOT Paul.

Just because YOU didn’t hear Paul agree with Peter doesn’t mean that he DIDN’TT. The Holy Spirit does NOT contradict Himself. He means what He says – and He says what He means.
As for “Graphe” in 2 Thess 2:15 – it’s NOT there.

Finally- you don't believe in Oral Tradition because you keep questioning irs validity . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. I reject utterly your church's misuse of Scripture and historical political power and fraudulent documents to support the exercise of tyrannical imposition of church tradition and man-made decrees that denied religious liberty to millions over many centuries. I also reject your so called authority that persecuted those who your church arbitrarily designated heretics. Jesus did not give anyone authority to judge.

That’s not completely accurate (John 7:24, John 20:21-23).
What He didn’t give was the Authority to condemn.

I’ve shown you where Jesus said that anyone who listened to or rejected His Church listened to or rejected HIM (Luke 10:16).

And while we’re on the subject of Authority – the Bible clearly states that a woman is NOT top have authority over men in the Church (1 Tim. 2:12, 1 Cor. 14:34).

Too bad your SDA "Popess", Ellen white skipped over those verses . . .

 

[uncle silas]

For the LAST time:
The HOLY SPIRIT is the Author of Scripture – NOT Paul.

Is the Holy Spirit the author of Gal2:11?

 

[RedFan]

Just because YOU didn’t hear Paul agree with Peter doesn’t mean that he DIDN’TT.

Agreed.

The Holy Spirit does NOT contradict Himself. He means what He says – and He says what He means.

Agreed.

As for “Graphe” in 2 Thess 2:15 – it’s NOT there.

Agreed (for the third time -- is English your first language?)

Finally- you don't believe in Oral Tradition because you keep questioning irs validity . . .

I have NEVER questioned it's validity!!!!! Where are you getting this from????

 

[Keiw]

Yup, that's what Daniel saw -- someone like a son of man, someone like a human being, given a kingship by God. Everyone agrees that Daniel's vision was of the incarnate Son, Jesus Christ. What's your point? That because the Son became the man Jesus Christ, the Son (not just his flesh) must have been "created?" That conclusion just does not follow, my friend.

The Son of God existed long before the man Jesus Christ entered the world.

Yes he did=Michael the archangel.

 

[Keiw]

You have perverted God’s Word.

Jesus isn’t setting a “limit” as to which followers get to receive the Eucharist in Luke 22:29-30. He is telling His Apostles – His inner circle of what awaits THEM in Heaven as leaders of His Church. He is talking about a hierarchy.

That’s why we read in Ephesians 4:11 –
“And Christ’s gifts were that SOME should be called apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers.”

This is echoed in 1 Cor 12:28-29 . . .


NOT voting isn’t the answer. In fact – it’s just as wrong as sinning.

EVERY time you vote – it us for the lesser of the 2 evils in your eyes because NO ONE is good but God (Mark 10:18). The Pope is absolutely right . . .

Luke 22 is about the Lords evening meal--Verses 29-30 assure its a covenant only to those who will sit on thrones. Only part of that little flock were present that night and partook.

 

[Brakelite]

That’s not completely accurate (John 7:24, John 20:21-23).
What He didn’t give was the Authority to condemn.

I’ve shown you where Jesus said that anyone who listened to or rejected His Church listened to or rejected HIM (Luke 10:16).

And while we’re on the subject of Authority – the Bible clearly states that a woman is NOT top have authority over men in the Church (1 Tim. 2:12, 1 Cor. 14:34).

Too bad your SDA "Popess", Ellen white skipped over those verses . . .

What then is the role of a true prophet? Was it ever a role of authority? Was John the Baptist a ruler over the church? Elijah? Isaiah? Jeremiah?

 

[Marymog]

Need to study more below the surface and read your history on the Greeks and how they pick up and passed on to the Romans the ancient Babylonian sun gods and system of worship...

'...Pope is a shortened title for Pontifex Maximus. In Greek it means father. The Pontifex Maximus (meaning king of sacrifices or servant to the triads, as well as the "greatest bridge-maker between the gods and men") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. It's a pagan title that was incorporated from the Etruscan-Latin polytheistic culture (700 BC) who lived before the Romans. These early people (just like the Romans) had built great temples to the gods and goddess of the day. They also had a pagan triad. Eventually the Etruscans were conquered by Rome.

The title Pontifex Maximus (Pope) is mentioned numerous times by the early Catholic Church fathers (especially by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Catholic bishop until much later on. The early Catholics said that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom," the evil high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. This post was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. It's last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian (reigned 375-383). He was then urged by the Catholic bishops to renounce the cultic Roman title, and instead grant it to their exalted leading bishop over Rome.

Pontifex Maximus is a name that's being used by the Roman Catholic Church clergy today. Though it may be abbreviated into Pope or Papa, yet it's clearly a title incorporated directly from paganism. Interesting to note that the all the pagan pontiffs or popes held that office for life. Exactly like the Catholics Popes. And their cult members met and elected a successor, who after his election became the next Pope or Pontifex Maximus (Dionys. II.22, 73). Just like the election held by the Catholic Church cardinals to choose a new Pope. The Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Many historians agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names. Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."...'
http://www.upublish.info/Article/The-Pope--Pontifex-Maximus-/693298

By the time of Emperor Constantine, the Christian religion received imperial sanction and the bishop of Rome became more than just another bishop, and brought in a system of worship from another origin than Christianity.

After the fall of Rome, the Bishop of Rome served as a source of authority and continuity from the old empire but Rome had also been the center of the pagan priests and their temples during the Roman Empire, and they did not go away. The Bishop of Rome, to bring in more converts brought what they were familiar with and allowed the traditional Roman mysteries and deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus and idol worship back into the church, along with its Pagan doctrines, graven images and ceremonies. It renamed the mother goddess and others that were worshiped and brought them into the church at Rome, then with its influence it spread into the other centers of Christianity.

Oh WOW.....I didn't know all of this "history".

Teach me more!! PLEASE?

on pins and needles....Mary

 

[Marymog]

You are correct but isn't the topic of the Trinity banned?
J.

I think it is, but we are debating the history of the teaching of the Trinity......Not if the teaching is dogma.

I wonder if debating the history of the teaching is banned?

None the less.........I can't figure out why talking about the oldest teaching of Christianity would be banned. It's baffling.

 

[Marymog]

Nothing more serious than Gods truth. So why do you reject the truth i share?

I don't reject the Truth. I just reject YOUR truth.

Thanks for your time Keiw.

Mary

 

[Keiw]

I don't reject the Truth. I just reject YOUR truth.

Thanks for your time Keiw.

Mary

I speak Gods truth. I have studied the bible over and over, religions, religious history, the teachings of Jesus, since 1961. How about you? There is 0 doubt in all creation, in every translation on earth the teachings of Jesus back my teachers all the way.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is the Holy Spirit the author of Gal2:11?

Yup.
He is the author of ALL Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed (for the third time -- is English your first language?)

Either you’re a really BAD communicator – or you’re just NOT that bright.

It is YOU who keeps stating that Paul used the word, “graphé” in 2 Thess. 2:15.
As I have more than amply educated you – he did NOT. He used the word, επιστολε (ep-is-tol-ay'), which means “a letter”.

I have NEVER questioned it's validity!!!!! Where are you getting this from????

EVERY time you say that you cannot trust it because you weren’t there when Paul spoke it - you are denying it.

 

[Johann]

Agreed.


Agreed.

Agreed (for the third time -- is English your first language?)

I have NEVER questioned it's validity!!!!! Where are you getting this from????

εἴτε διὰ λόγου εἴτε δι' ἐπιστολῆς – "Whether by word of mouth or by letter"
εἴτε... εἴτε... is a correlative conjunction meaning "whether... or..."
διὰ λόγου: "through word" refers to oral instruction from Paul.
δι' ἐπιστολῆς: "through a letter" refers to the written letters (like this epistle).
J.