There is only one true church

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Here is a scripture that proponents of ECT either fail to understand, or choose to ignore while declaring as truth, the precise opposite. Sadly, such abuse of Scripture, while expected outside the church, is commonplace within the church.

“The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: ”
2 Peter 2:9 KJV
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,944
1,795
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A catholic church would be a church that has voluntarily submitted to papal authority yes? You would be hard pressed to prove that the Celtic church, even beyond the time Augustine visited Britain, was at any time submitted to papal authority. That came later. Much later. And it wasn't voluntary. Arranged marriages, war and bloodshed, forced takeover of property, and threats were the Catholic methods of discipling the Celtic people and converting them to, well... Catholicism. Not Christianity. They were already that. Read d'Aubigne's History of the Reformation for more insight. Even beyond the 10th century, b the Celtic church in Wales was resisting the imposition of papal authority and doctrine. For example, the Celtic church for over 1000 years continued to honour the Bible sabbath, despite protestations from papal emissaries and monks and the pressures from Anglo Saxon pagan armies.
Hey Brakelite,

I am a history buff and have searched d'Aubigne's History of the Reformation concerning the Celtic church and I can't find anything about it in that book. I definitely would like "more insight" like you suggested. Did you perhaps reference the wrong book?
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
3,524
1,308
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Since when did English grammar direct that to fulfil something it must mean it's cancelled. The letter of the law is cancelled? So adultery is no longer sinful, because Jesus "fulfilled" the 7th commandment? Please explain in practical terms how that works.
You might like to start with Matthew 5:17-19.

Your vain tradition of exalting Sunday is contrary to God's explicit commandment. We both know what Jesus had to say about such traditions.
Very true..
 

Keiw

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
3,445
608
113
67
upstate NY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you believe what Christians have believed and have taught in all generations, then you're built upon the Apostles. But if you're particular faith..what you think is so important to say, is something that only began to be said in 500 AD or in 1000 AD or in 1500 AD or in 1959 AD..whatever you're in, as good as it might be, is inadequate and is something less than the church of Christ. It isn't Apostolic. There is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and that church has been teaching the gospel and preaching the Christian faith for 2000 years. It is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is Orthodox, but not Jewish. It is Catholic, but not Roman. It is not non-denominational, it is pre-denominational. It has been believed, taught, preserved, defended, and died for. It is the Faith that has established the universe. Proclaiming the Truth since 34 AD. The Church began on the day of Pentecost after Christ's resurrection.
You don't know Catholicism very well.
In their own encyclopedia-1967( new Catholic encyclopedia) Vol XIV, pg 299-- The formulation, one God in three persons was not established, certainly not assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith prior until the end of the 4th century. Among the apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.

Fact-in 381 ce at the council of Constantinople for the first time ever the holy spirit was added to a godhead.---That means when Jesus and every bible writer attended the Israelite places of worship, all were taught= the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)
Not one of those ever refuted that single being God.
Catholicism created the trinity, it does not exist. Thus Jesus was NEVER with that religion.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hey Brakelite,

I am a history buff and have searched d'Aubigne's History of the Reformation concerning the Celtic church and I can't find anything about it in that book. I definitely would like "more insight" like you suggested. Did you perhaps reference the wrong book?
Really? Well, I am surprised. Go back to it again, start with volume 5, Britain Before the Reformation.
There you will find copious references to the ancient and honourable church of the Celtic people which withstood the advances of the Roman Church for centuries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marymog

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
No one gave anyone the authority to found another Church apart from the one Christ founded and with which He identifies as one. Either we are obedient to Christ or we want to be our own Pope, appointed by ourselves.

Recall in Gen. 3:5, when the serpent (Satan) told Eve, "God knows well that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know* good and evil.” So many today want to be their own god, doing whatever they want to do rather than what God wants them to do.
Don't limit God. He can give life to the dead. He can start a new congregation, even a denomination, and better still, a movement of Spirit filled God led born again converts to righteousness with earnest and loving hearts toward lost sinners, and having a yearning for the gospel to be taught throughout the world, changing lives and building the kingdom of God. He doesn't need you or me, your church or mine. He can do that from rocks.
But in His grace and mercy, He has chosen individuals to share the last message of mercy to mankind before He comes to take His people home. Those individuals He has brought together, and are the only true global Christian church teaching the truth. They are called Seventh Day Adventists. That doesn't mean there aren't true Christians belonging to other denominations, not excluding your own. But there is only one that has a truly prophetic message, presenting the pure gospel of grace by faith, righteousness by faith, and presenting unarguable evidence from scripture that the Lord Jesus Christ, presently ministering in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest, is soon to return. Before then however, is a crisis. A clash of minds. On the one hand is a movement trusting in Christ and Him alone to build His kingdom. On the other hand, there are genuine sincere Christians who are seeking to accomplish the establishment of righteousness in the world using politics and worldly power. There are yet many in the middle, undecided, perhaps not sure of where to take their stand, but who must be informed before it's too late. Because in the end, there are only two sides. Babylon the Great with her adulterous relationship with the kings of the earth, and her most hated enemy, the other woman of Revelation 12, God's people, spiritual Israel, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy.
Yes. God does have a one true church. But the one centered in Rome is not as old as you would like to believe. There are older churches than the RCC. The Assyrian church of the East, founded by missionaries from Antioch and Syria, before Peter or Paul went to Rome. The Celtic church of northern Italy, southern France, and Britain, founded by Celtic missionaries that were converted by Paul and Barnabas and friends in Galatia. Those churches, which in turn gave rise to the Albigenses and the Waldenses, were truly Apostolic. The early Roman church was also Apostolic. But in the 6th century, adopted politics as the means by which to spread its doctrines around the world. Through that act of treachery, became divorced from Christ, and became Antichrist.
Today, sadly, we witness the Protestant churches in America doing that same thing, adopting politics, fornicating with the kings of this world, creating an image to the medieval papacy.

And the only true globally protesting church to these acts of apostasy and treachery is the Seventh Day Adventist church. It is now time to come out of Babylon. That ancient persecuting power is doomed and destined to destruction. She may claim to be God's church, that she is no widow, and has power and authority over all the kings of the earth, but God says,
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. ”
Revelation 18:4 KJV
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
3,369
846
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, all I can say is that you are confused.
I am a bit puzzled by your obstinance, yes. <smile>

Whose authority are you surrendered to? God, or man. The commandments of God, or the tradition of man.
Hmmm... Well, yes. :) if these "traditions of man/men" are in accordance with God's Word...

PinSeeker: "We still observe the Sabbath – only we observe it on the Lord’s Day because it pointed to Him in the first place..."

PinSeeker: "We still observe the Sabbath – only we observe it on the Lord’s Day because it pointed to Him in the first place..." ... That has to be one of the most contradictory and insulting posts I've read.
To you? Well, certainly it was not insulting of anything or anyone. And that you think it was "contradictory" is just your opinion. I mean, not to belittle your opinion, but it is what it is.

It's like you are saying to your wife, we celebrate our anniversary, but we do it on the 14th instead of the 26th because the 14th is more convenient.
What a strange ~ senseless, really ~ analogy. Very non sequitur...

Grace and peace to you.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am a bit puzzled by your obstinance, yes. <smile>


Hmmm... Well, yes. :) if these "traditions of man/men" are in accordance with God's Word...




To you? Well, certainly it was not insulting of anything or anyone. And that you think it was "contradictory" is just your opinion. I mean, not to belittle your opinion, but it is what it is.


What a strange ~ senseless, really ~ analogy. Very non sequitur...

Grace and peace to you.
You don't see where I'm coming from? I'll try again.
3 questions.
How can you celebrate the Sabbath on any other day than the 7th? The 7th day is holy. Sanctified. Not the 4th. Not even the 1st. Only the 7th. That's by design. And there's nothing in scripture to suggest that's changed.

How is the tradition of first day, Sunday, (which is not the Lord's day ), in any way in harmony with scripture and the commandments of God?
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 6 days you shall do all your labour, but the 7th is the Sabbath of the Lord your God, for in 6 days the Lord made... etc". The Sabbath is a memorial, and celebrates creation, and later redemption. Hence my questioning of the reasonableness of celebrating your anniversary or birthday on another day.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,944
1,795
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You don't know Catholicism very well.
In their own encyclopedia-1967( new Catholic encyclopedia) Vol XIV, pg 299-- The formulation, one God in three persons was not established, certainly not assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith prior until the end of the 4th century. Among the apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.

Fact-in 381 ce at the council of Constantinople for the first time ever the holy spirit was added to a godhead.---That means when Jesus and every bible writer attended the Israelite places of worship, all were taught= the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)
Not one of those ever refuted that single being God.
Catholicism created the trinity, it does not exist. Thus Jesus was NEVER with that religion.
Lol....YOU don't know Christian history OR the Apostolic Fathers very well:

FACT: What the Early Church Believed: The Trinity

AND the Nicene creed, which alludes to the Trinity, was composed at the Council of Nicen (325AD) which is 54 years before the council of Constantinople.

Your welcome.....Mary
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
3,369
846
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You don't see where I'm coming from? I'll try again.
I do; no need.

How can you celebrate the Sabbath on any other day than the 7th?
I was very clear in my previous post (743).

...Sunday, (which is not the Lord's day ),
It is.

in any way in harmony with scripture and the commandments of God?
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 6 days you shall do all your labour, but the 7th is the Sabbath of the Lord your God, for in 6 days the Lord made... etc". The Sabbath is a memorial, and celebrates creation, and later redemption.
As I said above, the fact that John says there is a “Lord’s day” in the new covenant shows there is a day set apart in a unique way for the Lord. Paul writes in Colossians 2 about the Sabbath being past and shows that the old Sabbaths are passed away (Colossians 2:16). The pattern that emerges in the New Testament is that Christians rest and worship on the first day of the week (again, Sunday). With the coming of Christ the pattern changes; because Christ has brought that ultimate rest to us; we begin with rest, and then we work (the rest of the week) out of that rest. Rather than the previous six days of work (the first through the sixth day of the week) and the Sabbath on the seventh, because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

Hence my questioning of the reasonableness of celebrating your anniversary or birthday on another day.
Yeah not "unreasonable," per se, but just non sequitur, really.

Well... Unless we talk about the day we were born again of the Spirit and converted to Christ, and then, yes, we Christians actually do have a new birthday to celebrate... :) I guess there's about a 14% chance it's the same day of the week, though... :) And I think most Christians probably can't pinpoint the exact day of their conversion... But certainly, we should celebrate God calling us out of darkness and into His marvelous light... :) I mean... to God be the glory, of course.

Grace and peace to you, Brakelite.
 

Keiw

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
3,445
608
113
67
upstate NY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Lol....YOU don't know Christian history OR the Apostolic Fathers very well:

FACT: What the Early Church Believed: The Trinity

AND the Nicene creed, which alludes to the Trinity, was composed at the Council of Nicen (325AD) which is 54 years before the council of Constantinople.

Your welcome.....Mary
Catholicism was there back then. Their encyclopedia says the Apostolic Fathers knew nothing of God being a trinity)))))--No trinity was taught at Nicea. From my understanding they added it not that long ago to that creed. Its recorded history fact-381 ce= the very first time the holy spirit was added to a godhead.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I do; no need.


I was very clear in my previous post (743).


It is.


As I said above, the fact that John says there is a “Lord’s day” in the new covenant shows there is a day set apart in a unique way for the Lord. Paul writes in Colossians 2 about the Sabbath being past and shows that the old Sabbaths are passed away (Colossians 2:16). The pattern that emerges in the New Testament is that Christians rest and worship on the first day of the week (again, Sunday). With the coming of Christ the pattern changes; because Christ has brought that ultimate rest to us; we begin with rest, and then we work (the rest of the week) out of that rest. Rather than the previous six days of work (the first through the sixth day of the week) and the Sabbath on the seventh, because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.


Yeah not "unreasonable," per se, but just non sequitur, really.

Well... Unless we talk about the day we were born again of the Spirit and converted to Christ, and then, yes, we Christians actually do have a new birthday to celebrate... :) I guess there's about a 14% chance it's the same day of the week, though... :) And I think most Christians probably can't pinpoint the exact day of their conversion... But certainly, we should celebrate God calling us out of darkness and into His marvelous light... :) I mean... to God be the glory, of course.

Grace and peace to you, Brakelite.
Are you Catholic?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Surely you agree with me that 2 Tim. 3:16-17's reference to "Scripture" was a reference to ONLY the OT.
No, I don't agree.

First of all – 2 Thess. 2:15 doesn’t mention “Scripture”. Paul states explicitly:
2 Thess. 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by US, either by our spoken word or by OUR letter.

“OUR” letter, which indicates that THEY wrote it.

Also - Peter says emphatically:
2 Pet. 3:16

He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

They knew what they were writing was Scripture.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everything you said about shadows I agree with. And I also agree that there are Sabbath days that are shadows, the thing is though that Paul qualifies those things on verse 16 by the word shadows. He is talking about the sabbaths that are shadows, along with meats and drinks and holy days and new moons, and there are other things that could be added such as the ritual sacrifices etc, all of which pointed forward to the ministry of Jesus. All of them were intimately associated with the yearly process of atonement for the Israelite nation. What you f fail to establish is whether the weekly Sabbath is a part of that. I could cure numerous quotes from your own church theologians and writers , including the Archbishop of Reggio who is quoted above, who disagree with you. The weekly Sabbath is not a shadow. It was never established as a part of the process of atonement fulfilled by Jesus. It was eatables established at creation, before sin entered this world, before man needed atonement.

Sunday observance came about for many reasons. Not one of them was because Jesus or any of the apostles taught it. Nor practised it. It took the church in Rome 400 years to the council of Laodicea to create a law concerning it, and at that time Rome and Alexandria were the only 2 cities observing it. Everywhere else Christians were still observing the seventh day. Your doctrine is based on tradition yes. But tradition alone. And that tradition completely nullifies a sprightly commandment of God. Which is why all the world should be astonished at the arrogance of a church that "thinks to change times and laws", which pertain to God's holy law.
"To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. " Isaiah 8:20
When the Judaizers in Antioch were confusing the Gentile believers, Paul and Silas went to Jerusalem to seek counsel from the Apostles. After much discussion about what was required of the Gentile believers, the Apostles penned a letter, which stated the following:
“It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.”

No further aspects of the Mosaic Law and NO Sabbath requirement. This is because they understood that this was ALL fulfilled in Christ.
When you understand that the Sabbat points to Jesus, it’s not difficult to grasp.

The very FIRST mention of the Sabbath in ALL of Scripture is when the Israelites are in the desert Ex 16:23-30. God commands them to take a day of rest and eat what they gathered.

WHAT did they gather? Jesus tells us about that in John 6:
John 6:31-34

“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

Read CAREFULLY what Jesus says next . . .
John 6:35

Jesus said to them, “I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

HE is the entire reason for the Sabbath – and He FULFILLED it with His death and resurrection.
- It was INSTITUTED for the eating of the Bread from Heaven (Manna).
- It was FULFILLED by the eating of the Br4ad of Life (Jesus).

This is why the NT Church gathered on the LORD’S Day – the FIRST day of the week (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10) - and NOT on the Sabbath which has been fulfilled.

And this is ALSO why the Apostles did NOT impose the Law on Gentile Christians as we read in their letter in Acts 15:23-29.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marymog

Keiw

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
3,445
608
113
67
upstate NY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When the Judaizers in Antioch were confusing the Gentile believers, Paul and Silas went to Jerusalem to seek counsel from the Apostles. After much discussion about what was required of the Gentile believers, the Apostles penned a letter, which stated the following:
“It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.”

No further aspects of the Mosaic Law and NO Sabbath requirement. This is because they understood that this was ALL fulfilled in Christ.
When you understand that the Sabbat points to Jesus, it’s not difficult to grasp.

The very FIRST mention of the Sabbath in ALL of Scripture is when the Israelites are in the desert Ex 16:23-30. God commands them to take a day of rest and eat what they gathered.

WHAT did they gather? Jesus tells us about that in John 6:
John 6:31-34

“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

Read CAREFULLY what Jesus says next . . .
John 6:35

Jesus said to them, “I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

HE is the entire reason for the Sabbath – and He FULFILLED it with His death and resurrection.
- It was INSTITUTED for the eating of the Bread from Heaven (Manna).
- It was FULFILLED by the eating of the Br4ad of Life (Jesus).

This is why the NT Church gathered on the LORD’S Day – the FIRST day of the week (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10) - and NOT on the Sabbath which has been fulfilled.

And this is ALSO why the Apostles did NOT impose the Law on Gentile Christians as we read in their letter in Acts 15:23-29.
It was Paul and Barnabas who went to Jerusalem in front of the apostles and elders( governing body) about the matter of circumcision.
Jesus meant by obeying him is the result for those at John 6:35.
FEW understand the Lords supper, Because 99% are taught by blind guides.
A fact of the Lords supper= Luke 22:29-30--A covenant made to only those who will sit on thrones.= The little flock( Luke 12:32) not the great crowd( Rev 7:9)--The little flock=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) these are the anointed bride of Christ-these will rule as kings and priests alongside of Jesus on thrones( Rev 1:6, Rev 20:6)
Paul warned all are not worthy to partake of the emblems( 1Cor 11:27-29)= a major sin for the great crowd to partake)= The great crowd of other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold.---- (fold= the little flock) only these will sit on thrones.
 

RedFan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2022
2,871
1,257
113
70
New Hampshire
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, I don't agree.

First of all – 2 Thess. 2:15 doesn’t mention “Scripture”. Paul states explicitly:
2 Thess. 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by US, either by our spoken word or by OUR letter.

“OUR” letter, which indicates that THEY wrote it.

Also - Peter says emphatically:
2 Pet. 3:16

He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

They knew what they were writing was Scripture.
I asked you about Paul's letter to Timothy, not his letter to Thessalonika (which we have already beaten to death). And I didn't ask Second Peter's opinion. The question is, what did Paul have in mind when using the word graphē in 2 Tim. 3:16. Clearly, the OT. Not his own writings. Not letters yet to be penned.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
No further aspects of the Mosaic Law and NO Sabbath requirement.
So long as they didn't eat food sacrificed to idols, and they didn't drink blood, they were good to go? What about adultery? Murder? How about having sex with your neighbours sheep?
Please explain why the Laodicean church council several hundred years later found it necessary to propose a law against Sabbath keepers?
 
Last edited:

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,944
1,795
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Catholicism was there back then. Their encyclopedia says the Apostolic Fathers knew nothing of God being a trinity)))))--No trinity was taught at Nicea. From my understanding they added it not that long ago to that creed. Its recorded history fact-381 ce= the very first time the holy spirit was added to a godhead.
Hey Keiw,

Did you look at the link I provided? If you had, you would see that you are wrong and that the Apostolic Fathers did speak of the Trinity. As a matter of FACT an Apostolic Father used the word Trinity in 181AD. If you knew your Christian history, you would know that.

The Nicaean Creed was formulated by The Church to identify conformity of beliefs among Christians. EVERY Christian scholar knows and understands that the Nicaean Creed upheld the long-standing teaching of The Church concerning the Trinity. It, in part, says;

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,


Your OPINION that at The Church "added" the Holy Spirit to the godhead at The Council of Constantinople in 381AD shows your lack of knowledge about your own Christian history AND how Church Councils work. At that Council The Church reaffirmed and defined the divinity of the Holy Spirit in response to the heretical teaching of the Macedonians who denied the divinity of the Spirit.

Keeping it real with facts instead of opinions............Mary
 
Status
Not open for further replies.