There is only one true church

[RedFan]

But as you can see, it was from pagan origin, not faithful or original teaching to say the least..

Establishment of Sunday as the Lord's Day has a fairly early and extensive pedigree -- and none of it from Rome.

Nearly two centuries before Constantine legislated it into an official day of rest, chapter 67 of Justin Martyr's First Apology suggests that Sunday worship had taken root. Chapter 15 of the Epistle of Barnabas is even earlier than Justin Martyr, stating "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens." Around the same time we have chapter 9 of Ignatius's Letter to the Magnesians, stating "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death." And the Didache, perhaps the earliest of all, states in Chapter 14 "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure."

This doesn't make the switch from Saturday to Sunday proper, even if de riguer. I won't argue against it being a tradition of man. But I WILL argue against it being traceable to the papacy, if that is what you are suggesting. "Pagan" origin? I'm not seeing that either.

 

[Hobie]

None of it from God or His Word....

Establishment of Sunday as the Lord's Day has a fairly early and extensive pedigree -- and none of it from Rome.

Nearly two centuries before Constantine legislated it into an official day of rest, chapter 67 of Justin Martyr's First Apology suggests that Sunday worship had taken root. Chapter 15 of the Epistle of Barnabas is even earlier than Justin Martyr, stating "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens." Around the same time we have chapter 9 of Ignatius's Letter to the Magnesians, stating "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death." And the Didache, perhaps the earliest of all, states in Chapter 14 "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure."

This doesn't make the switch from Saturday to Sunday proper, even if de riguer. I won't argue against it being a tradition of man. But I WILL argue against it being traceable to the papacy, if that is what you are suggesting. "Pagan" origin? I'm not seeing that either.

 

[RedFan]

None of it from God or His Word....

How can we be sure? Not everything taught to or by the apostles is written in the four gospels and twenty-one letters that happened to be adorned with canonical status in the fourth century.

 

[Hobie]

How can we be sure? Not everything taught to or by the apostles is written in the four gospels and twenty-one letters that happened to be adorned with canonical status in the fourth century

That's why we have Gods Word, need to read it and follow God rather than the pagan entity and its magistrate..

 

[WalterandDebbie]

If you believe what Christians have believed and have taught in all generations, then you're built upon the Apostles. But if you're particular faith..what you think is so important to say, is something that only began to be said in 500 AD or in 1000 AD or in 1500 AD or in 1959 AD..whatever you're in, as good as it might be, is inadequate and is something less than the church of Christ. It isn't Apostolic. There is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and that church has been teaching the gospel and preaching the Christian faith for 2000 years. It is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is Orthodox, but not Jewish. It is Catholic, but not Roman. It is not non-denominational, it is pre-denominational. It has been believed, taught, preserved, defended, and died for. It is the Faith that has established the universe. Proclaiming the Truth since 34 AD. The Church began on the day of Pentecost after Christ's resurrection.

Hello, And how are you all? Search GotQuestions.org

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[RedFan]

That's why we have Gods Word, need to eat it rather than the pagan entity and its magistrate..

So you define God's Word as what is written in the OT and NT, and nothing else? That's a little silly, don't you think?

 

[Hobie]

So you define God's Word as what is written in the OT and NT, and nothing else? That's a little silly, don't you think?

This is were the doctrines of devils come in, putting aside what is from God.

 

[RedFan]

This is were the doctrines of devils come in, putting aside what is from God.

Are you putting aside everything not in the Bible as not from God?

 

[ReChoired]

Establishment of Sunday as the Lord's Day has a fairly early and extensive pedigree -- and none of it from Rome.

Nearly two centuries before Constantine legislated it into an official day of rest, chapter 67 of Justin Martyr's First Apology suggests that Sunday worship had taken root. Chapter 15 of the Epistle of Barnabas is even earlier than Justin Martyr, stating "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens." Around the same time we have chapter 9 of Ignatius's Letter to the Magnesians, stating "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death." And the Didache, perhaps the earliest of all, states in Chapter 14 "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure."

This doesn't make the switch from Saturday to Sunday proper, even if de riguer. I won't argue against it being a tradition of man. But I WILL argue against it being traceable to the papacy, if that is what you are suggesting. "Pagan" origin? I'm not seeing that either.

Sylvester 1 - Pope Sylvester And Melanchthon Quotes Image And Powerpoint Slide : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Pseudo-Barnabas, Falsity - SDA The Sabbath In The Epistle Of Barnabas By William H Shea : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Clement of Alexandria, Falsity - Clement Of Alexandria Not The First Day Of The Week : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Justin Martyr Forgery - SDA William H Shea Justin Martyr Forgery : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Ignatius Fraud & Didache, &c - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

Pliny the Younger (“stated day before sunrise”, refers to the sabbath day (Act 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Heb 4:9; Rev 1:10) in context (Mar 1:35; 1 Pet 2:21), inferred) - Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan, c. A.D. 111

Eusebius -

[Latin] “… in summa quot quot alia in Sabbato peragere sancitum erat, ea nos in Dominicam transtulimus, utpote quae magis idonea et propria, ac prima item sit et agmen ducat, et Judaico Sabbato pretiosior. … Quare ut ea die conveniamus traditum nobis est, et ea quae in psalmo jubentur nobis exsequi praeceptum est; …” – Patrologiae, Cursus Completus ... Series Graeca ... J. P. Migne ... Tomus XXIII. Eusebius Pamphili Caesariensis Episcopus (1857), col. 1171A Patrologiae cursus completus, series graeca​

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[English] “... Eusebius ... all things whatever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we [the catholic bishops] have transferred to the Lord's Day [Catholic meaning ‘Sunday’], as more appropriately belonging to it, because it has a precedence, and is first in rank [of the week], and more honourable [Latin: ‘more precious’] tha[n] the Jewish Sabbath. … It is delivered to us [Latin: ‘traditionally handed down to us’] that we should meet together on this day, and it is ordered that we should do those things announced in this Psalm." -- Comment on Ps. xcii. ...” – The Christian sabbath, considered in its various aspects by Noel, Baptist Wriothesley, 1798-1873; Henderson, John, 1780-1867, page 264 - The Christian sabbath, considered in its various aspects : Noel, Baptist Wriothesley, 1798-1873 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

‘Pope’ Sylvester I - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pope Sylvester I

[Latin] “... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ...” - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf​

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[Translated English] “... Pope Sylvester, first among the Romans, ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [‘Pope’ Sylvester I] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the [counterfeit] Lord's day [Sunday; the real “Lord’s day” (Revelation 1:10) is the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ...” - http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sylvester-I.htm​

Roman Catholicism says:

“...But the [Roman Catholic] Church of God has in her wisdom ordained that the celebration of the Sabbath should be transferred to “the [counterfeit] Lord's day [ie, they mean first day of the week, even though the real Lord’s day, Rev. 1:109; Isa. 58:13; Exo. 20:11 is the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD]:” …” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent; On The Third Commandment; pg 267] - The catechism of the Council of Trent : Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

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“… the Sabbath … this commandment, … is not fixed and unalterable, but is susceptible of change … ” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent published by command of Pope Pius The Fifth, translated into English by the Rev. J. Donovon, Professor, &c Royal College, Maynooth; Baltimore: Published by Lucas Brothers. No. 170 Market Street; Printed By James Young, Baltimore; On The Third Commandment; pg 264] - The catechism of the Council of Trent : Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

The 7th Day the Lord's Day - https://archive.org/details/study-07-daniel-prophecies-overview-then-now-and-yet-to-come_202301/STUDY 11 – THE 7TH DAY OR THE 1ST DAY, WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT - WHAT’S THE BIG DEAL - WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT IT/mode/1up

 

[ReChoired]

Establishment of Sunday as the Lord's Day has a fairly early and extensive pedigree -- and none of it from Rome.
...

Sabbath through the Centuries - Sabbath Through The Centuries With EXTRA Corrected Citations Version With Notes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Rome's Challenge - Roman Catholicism Christian Sabbath Rome's Challenge : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- Doctrine Sabbath Roman Catholicism Rome's Challenge On Sabbath And Sunday : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Rome's Stated & Signed Letter - Roman Catholicism We Changed The Sabbath Letter Image : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The great Reformer Philip Melanchthon said:

Philip Melanchthon ( Philip Melanchthon - Wikipedia ) on Daniel 7:25 -

[Old English] “... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the [page 118-119] sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ...” - (The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Draconite (1545); page 118-119) - The exposicion of Daniel the prophete gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Iohan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Iohan Draconite. [et] c. By George Ioye. A prophecye diligently to be noted of al emprowrs [and] kinges in these laste dayes | Early English Books Online | University of Michigan Library Digital Collections​

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G. Joye (1545) The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Dra : George Joye (1495–1553) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

George Joye. The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Draconite. A...

archive.org

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G. Joye (1545) The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Dra : George Joye (1495–1553) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

George Joye. The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Draconite. A...

archive.org

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[Modern English] “… But what does the angel (Gabriel) mean to say: He shall wear out (persecute) or destroy the high (heavenly) saints (holy persons) (Daniel 7:25)? Verily (truly) (what) else (is it) but that with his false doctrine and capricious (unaccountable changes of) other articles (of faith & practice) & (with) interrogations (subtle questionings) he shall fraudulently deceive and trap the simple innocents and shed their blood, tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take upon him(self) and think to change the state of times and laws. He thinks to change the time, which with (the) fire and sword (of persecution), thinks to shorten the life of man(kind) and to prevent and disappoint God’s infallible, eternal and immutable providence whereby he (God) has prefixed every man’s time and hour of death which no man (anyone of mankind) can defer (delay) or prolong (extend) it, so can no man (anyone of mankind) shorten, nor prevent it, except men (anyone of mankind) will make God an ignorant person and so consequently no ‘God’ at all. He changes the times and laws that any of the [page 118-119] six work days commanded of God will make them unholy and idle days when he wills (desires by reason, “thinks”), or of their own ‘holy days’ (liturgical festal calendar days, like ‘lent’, &c) abolished, make work days again, and when they changed the Saturday (the 7th Day of the week in common, not technicality, as the days of God, are sunset to sunset (“even unto even”), not midnight to midnight (Roman times)) into Sunday (the 1st day of the week in common, not technicality), of eating (feasting) days (and) fasting days, of merry (celebratory) and glad days to marry in, they can make sorrowful days (even) forbidding marriages (1 Timothy 4:3). They have changed God’s laws and turned them into their own traditions to be kept above God’s precepts. And as for their own laws, they will change and break them when they will (desire by reason, “thinks”). And this power (authority) shall Anti-Christ (Latin: Vicarius Christi; koine Greek: Anti Christos) have, whether it be for (a) long or (a) short time. For so much shows (reveals) the Hebrew phrase, which is for a time, a little while (times), and a half a time, signifying that Anti-Christ shall make laws to stand as long and as short (of) time as he wills (desires by reason, “thinks”), and the times will he order, set and change at his own pleasure. But is it not only the office (position and prerogative) of God to change times and laws (Daniel 2:21; Acts 17:26)? Here is therefore the prophecy fulfilled of him (Anti-Christ). Even to exalt himself above everything that God is called (Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This text, But the high (heavenly) saints (holy persons) he (Anti-Christ) shall tangle (ensnare), trap and destroy, and arrogantly think to change the times and laws, etc.; is of diverse (differing) men diversely (differently) translated. …”​

William Ambrose Spicer (SDA, 1918), Our day in the light of prophecy and providence, page 154 - Our day in the light of prophecy and providence : Spicer, William Ambrose, 1866- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Stephen Bohr (SDA), Studies On Daniel (PDF), page 175 - http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BDAN.pdf

Roy Allen Anderson (SDA), Unveiling Daniel And Revelation, page 95 - Unveiling Daniel and Revelation

 

[ReChoired]

Establishment of Sunday as the Lord's Day has a fairly early and extensive pedigree -- and none of it from Rome.
...

H.F. Thomas, Chancellor Of Cardinal Gibbons:

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"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [solemnity of the 7th day Sabbath to Sunday the first day of the week] was her act ... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things."​

The Faith of Millions, By the Reverend John A. O'Brien, Ph.D, copyright 1938, Published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington, Indian, Pages 397-398,401,403

"The attendance at [Sunday] Mass is the mark of a practical Catholic. ... the worship of God and demands the attendance at Sunday Mass every Catholic worthy of the name."​

Dictionary of the Liturgy, Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1989

"Distinctive of the Roman Catholic Church, Sunday Mass observance became a mark of a practicing Catholic."​

Greek Orthodox:

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"... Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity ...​

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... In order to fully appreciate Sunday as a mark of Christian unity we must expand our definition of unity." [by Rev. Dr. Demetrios E. Tonias – Dean, Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral of New England] - BUDAYA4DRaja Nya Bandar Toto Wla Situs Slot Togel​

Sabbath resources - Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

 

[ReChoired]

Are you putting aside everything not in the Bible as not from God?

Everything that does not agree with what is in the Bible, is not from God. Isa. 8:20; 1 Cor. 14:32; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 1 Pet. 4:11.

 

[RedFan]

Everything that does not agree with what is in the Bible, is not from God. Isa. 8:20; 1 Cor. 14:32; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 1 Pet. 4:11.

That's obvious, but that's not my question. If an oral tradition is consistent with the Bible, do you nevertheless automatically reject it?

 

[Hobie]

Are you putting aside everything not in the Bible as not from God?

Much apostasy and outright abomination comes in when you set aside Gods truth as we all can see...

 

[Hobie]

That's obvious, but that's not my question. If an oral tradition is consistent with the Bible, do you nevertheless automatically reject it?

If it goes against Gods Word, you can claim 'consistency' but its still not of God.

 

[ReChoired]

That's obvious, but that's not my question. If an oral tradition is consistent with the Bible, do you nevertheless automatically reject it?

If an oral tradition was consistent with the Bible, why would I need the oral tradition, when I have the Bible on it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I addressed it in Post #666. Paul meant exactly what he said to the Thessalonians: to consider both the written and the oral teachings they had been provided as something to hold fast to. We don't have much of a clue what those oral traditions were, nor who besides Paul transmitted them. As to the written letters, certainly First Thessalonians, and MAYBE copies of letters Paul had previously written to neighboring churches. Paul tells the Thessalonians nothing regarding letters by others (James, Peter, etc.) or about any of the four canonical gospels -- none of which gospels had yet been written (Mark seems to have been the oldest) when Paul wrote Second Thessalonians, which consensus scholarship puts as written by Paul around 50-51 C.E.

Sooo, you actually believe that Paul taught a different “truth” to the Thessalonians than Peter or James or John were teaching?? That’s one of the problems with Sola Scripturists – and you are definitely one. You guys believe that they wanted you to believe ONLY what is contained in their letters.

It might interest you to know that ALL of them spent MOST of their time teaching ORALLY.

I want to be clear on my position, because you've missed it before and painted me as disagreeing with your championing of apostolic tradition. I AM NOT REJECTING APOSTOLIC TRADITION!

You absolutely reject Sacred Tradition. You claim that you don’t, but again – you argue against it.

Oral tradition counts greatly, and we can certainly hope that it has been largely preserved with tolerable faithfulness over the centuries. If so (something I believe but cannot prove), i'd put it on an even par with Paul's (and others') letters and with the gospels. I have reasons for thinking this. But 2 Thess. 2:15 -- which doesn't mention "Scripture" (your word), but only Paul's own letters, whichever ones they might have been -- isn't one of them.

The bottom line here is that you simply DONT trust Jesus who said the following about His Church:

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

According to YOU – there’s a good chance He lied.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU. Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

According to YOU – He lied here as well because the Holy Spirit may NOT have led His Church to all truth.

So, you see – in order to believe the way YOU do – one must reject the Scriptures and Jesus Himself.

You've put forth a terrible "proof text" for a defensible proposition. WHY? No need to grasp at straws when steel beams are available!

Either you’re intellectually blind or you simply don’t understand the Word of God.

I’ve given you some of the strongest proof text for Sacred Tradition (Matt. 16:19; 18:18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15) and you refuse to see it.
That's nothing but spiritual pride . . .

 

[RedFan]

If an oral tradition was consistent with the Bible, why would I need the oral tradition, when I have the Bible on it?

Because it is on a subject unaddressed in Scripture. "Consistent with" means "not contradicted by" Scripture. So you DON'T "have the Bible on it."

 

[RedFan]

Much apostasy and outright abomination comes in when you set aside Gods truth as we all can see...

I am not suggesting that we set aside A SINGLE THING in Scripture. I am saying that where Scripture is silent on a topic, oral tradition may be followed.

 

[RedFan]

Sooo, you actually believe that Paul taught a different “truth” to the Thessalonians than Peter or James or John were teaching??

Not at all. I am saying only that when he wrote Second Thessalonians Paul didn't have in mind what -- years later -- Peter or James or John might write.