St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
What do you make of this?
John 2:19 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
[
THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
- Thread starter Ritajanice
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
John 2:19 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
[
RLT63
Well-Known Member
1Ti 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in-the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
That verse says it all. Who wants to bet they will say it’s a mistranslation?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
All of this still doesn’t negate how “Elohim” can be used, such as at Judges 16:23.
If you insist on applying it to God as meaning plural, then you’re contradicting the Shema of Deuteronomy 6:4, and making it seem that God is schizophrenic, talking to Himself (themselves?) when saying, “Let us make man in our image….” - Genesis 1:28
Was He talking to Himself, or simply talking to someone else?
Hope your day goes well.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Reminded me of this one.
Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh? From where?
2 John 1:7 NIV
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,
have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
[
Very Good notice there.
God also raised Christ from the dead as testified to in many places.
So Jesus's word is true only if He is also God manifested in the flesh.
God also raised Christ from the dead as testified to in many places.
So Jesus's word is true only if He is also God manifested in the flesh.
What does manifest in the flesh mean?
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
Ok….
Of course it is.
John 1:18…’No one has ever seen God.’
1John 4:12…’No one has seen God at any time.’
Do you think the Bible contradicts itself? Such mistranslations make it so.
No, God never came down from his throne as he is...,he anointed Jesus with his power...Jesus body could never contain the Living almighty God.
You speak like the flesh and bones of Jesus inhabited all that God is?
The New Testament, New Covenant is a greater revelation of who God is.
The Old Covenant relationship was limited, while true it was not the whole truth was it, things were hidden.
You do not read the same words do you.
So in the New Covenant we learn a lot more about who God is, don't we.
In the Old Covenant, they had only a partial revelation of God.
The New Covenant reveals Christ fully, but still great is the mystery of Godliness.
The Old Covenant relationship was limited, while true it was not the whole truth was it, things were hidden.
You do not read the same words do you.
So in the New Covenant we learn a lot more about who God is, don't we.
In the Old Covenant, they had only a partial revelation of God.
The New Covenant reveals Christ fully, but still great is the mystery of Godliness.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
What do you make of this?
John 2:19 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
This followed the turning over of tables in the Temple area.
Jesus was referring to the temple of his physical body.
He foresaw his crucifixion and ultimate resurrection coming.
And declared that if they destroyed the temple of his body,
he would resurrect it in three days. Which indicates his deity.
John 2:19-22 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
2 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said.
Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
[
What do you make of this?
John 2:19 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Certainly. Context will help.
This followed the turning over of tables in the Temple area.
Jesus was referring to the temple of his physical body.
He foresaw his crucifixion and ultimate resurrection coming.
And declared that if they destroyed the temple of his body,
he would resurrect it in three days. Which indicates his deity.
John 2:19-22 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
2 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said.
Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
[
Last edited:
Never say never
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
He was a temple ....he housed the Spirit....he didn’t house all of God that he is..is that what you’re saying?
Of course all things are possible with God..he sustains the universe....,Jesus was under authority of the Father, yet you seem to think he was fully God.
Sorry @Scott Downey ..I thought you were St Stephen..not sure what you believe.
The Humbled and Exalted Christ
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, 7 but [c]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Great is the Mystery of Godliness.
A mystery is not fully understandable.
And..who gave him the power to do so?...
Please also explain what that scripture is saying, where I’ve highlighted it.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The Trinity exists simultaneously in an unexplainable spiritual condition of union, that allows for the sharing of traits, principles, powers and abilities, but prevents any possibility of disagreement. Still, this being true, they have their own individual presence, minds, wills, and characters. Three Gods that can sit side by side on three thrones. (I am not going to address spiritual thrones thing, it is just referenced that way in the Bible.) The Trinity makes sense, the scriptures that describe Their activity in the Gospels, make sense. The following discussion includes scriptures that speak of the Trinity as it is referenced in the Gospels. So we are going to put this in motion and as with reality and the truth, it will move through the story of Christ’s mission in the Gospels. The best example of the Trinity we have is how the three Gods interacted with each other during the Gospels. What they said to each other and about each other. Much of the proof comes from the lips of Christ Himself as He describes Himself and His Father as two persons in two different places as well as the communication between the two. Keeping in mind that it is very important to Christianity that Christ is the Son of God the Father.
Note in the following scriptures how God the Father and God the Son interact.
Note in the following scriptures how God the Father and God the Son interact.
Last edited:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Note in the following scriptures how God the Father and God the Son interact.
1. If Christ’s throne is on the right hand of God, He is not within God and that position although important is second to God the Father. Mark 16:19 “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into Heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
2. If one had to leave before the other could come, as in the case of the Holy Spirit, this would suggest individuality. John 16:7
3. If there is any conversation at all between the three entities; that would indicate some individuality.
4. If the conversation included a request, like Yeshua asking His Father to bypass the cup (so-to-speak); it indicates individuality and hierarchy. Matthew 26:36-46
5. If the conversation is in the form of a pray. For example; Our Father which art in Heaven.....But the Son was standing before them. This indicates individuality and hierarchy.
6. If one God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Father and the other God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Son; This indicates individuality and hierarchy. This is particularly significant because this is a self defined and self described definition by God Himself. God decided to define their positions as God the Father and God the Son, so we would understand their relationship. God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son…. John 3:16
It was God that chose to describe Himself as a Father, so we could understand our relationship with Him and His relationship with His Son, in human terms. There is a clear authoritative aspect associated with the Father and Son relationship. There is no possible way of mistaking this relationship as equal or the same person. Yeshua was the begotten Son of Yahweh. Yahweh did not begot Himself.
7. Again, for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son...John 3:16 There is no part of this verse that suggest that He begot Himself, or sent Himself, or that his Son was Him. The meaning of the verse is that, it took a lot of love for God to offer His real Son as a sacrifice for the world. This verse is talking about two Gods. God the Father and God the Son.
8. If a person can sin against one God worse than the other...as in the case of the un-pardonable sin. This indicates separation of some sort as well as a very special uniqueness in regard to the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:30-32
9. When Yeshua said, “...the father is greater than I.” John 14:28 --- then this is proof of His understanding of individuality and hierarchy.
10. Then he said, "And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in Heaven. And do not be called leaders, for One is your Leader, that is, Christ." Matthew 23:9-10 This refers to Yahweh as Father and Christ as leader. Similar to other scriptures referring to Christ as the head of the Church.
11. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 1st Corinthians 11:3 This clearly defines hierarchal positions.
12. John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (How many ways does this prove two persons, in two places, God the Son referring to His Father as His God.) Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34, John 20:17
13. There is not a single verse that would indicate or suggest that God the Father was crucified, or that They were crucified together, or that all three were crucified. Christ the God was crucified and ascended to His Father and took his place on a throne...at the right hand of His Father, His God, God Almighty. The storyline does not suggest that Christ is talking to Himself when He is talking to His Father.
14. Matthew 20:20….Mark 10:35…When asked by the mother of John and James if they could sit on the right and the left of Christ in the kingdom to come, One of the things Christ said to her (them) was “....this is not Mine to give....” This would indicate that it was someone else’s to give...another God...Not Himself and higher authority. This point is further exemplified by John 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into His hands. John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come forth from God, and was going back to God; >>> Definitely defining two persons, giving and receiving occurs between two persons and so does coming from and going back to. These verses indicate hierarchy and individuality. God the Father had the authority to give, you will never see where Yeshua gave authority to His Father.
15. If the conversation includes an element of surprise, like when Yeshua was on the cross and asked His Father why He had forsaken Him. This would be strong evidence of individuality. Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:4
1. If Christ’s throne is on the right hand of God, He is not within God and that position although important is second to God the Father. Mark 16:19 “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into Heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
2. If one had to leave before the other could come, as in the case of the Holy Spirit, this would suggest individuality. John 16:7
3. If there is any conversation at all between the three entities; that would indicate some individuality.
4. If the conversation included a request, like Yeshua asking His Father to bypass the cup (so-to-speak); it indicates individuality and hierarchy. Matthew 26:36-46
5. If the conversation is in the form of a pray. For example; Our Father which art in Heaven.....But the Son was standing before them. This indicates individuality and hierarchy.
6. If one God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Father and the other God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Son; This indicates individuality and hierarchy. This is particularly significant because this is a self defined and self described definition by God Himself. God decided to define their positions as God the Father and God the Son, so we would understand their relationship. God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son…. John 3:16
It was God that chose to describe Himself as a Father, so we could understand our relationship with Him and His relationship with His Son, in human terms. There is a clear authoritative aspect associated with the Father and Son relationship. There is no possible way of mistaking this relationship as equal or the same person. Yeshua was the begotten Son of Yahweh. Yahweh did not begot Himself.
7. Again, for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son...John 3:16 There is no part of this verse that suggest that He begot Himself, or sent Himself, or that his Son was Him. The meaning of the verse is that, it took a lot of love for God to offer His real Son as a sacrifice for the world. This verse is talking about two Gods. God the Father and God the Son.
8. If a person can sin against one God worse than the other...as in the case of the un-pardonable sin. This indicates separation of some sort as well as a very special uniqueness in regard to the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:30-32
9. When Yeshua said, “...the father is greater than I.” John 14:28 --- then this is proof of His understanding of individuality and hierarchy.
10. Then he said, "And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in Heaven. And do not be called leaders, for One is your Leader, that is, Christ." Matthew 23:9-10 This refers to Yahweh as Father and Christ as leader. Similar to other scriptures referring to Christ as the head of the Church.
11. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 1st Corinthians 11:3 This clearly defines hierarchal positions.
12. John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (How many ways does this prove two persons, in two places, God the Son referring to His Father as His God.) Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34, John 20:17
13. There is not a single verse that would indicate or suggest that God the Father was crucified, or that They were crucified together, or that all three were crucified. Christ the God was crucified and ascended to His Father and took his place on a throne...at the right hand of His Father, His God, God Almighty. The storyline does not suggest that Christ is talking to Himself when He is talking to His Father.
14. Matthew 20:20….Mark 10:35…When asked by the mother of John and James if they could sit on the right and the left of Christ in the kingdom to come, One of the things Christ said to her (them) was “....this is not Mine to give....” This would indicate that it was someone else’s to give...another God...Not Himself and higher authority. This point is further exemplified by John 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into His hands. John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come forth from God, and was going back to God; >>> Definitely defining two persons, giving and receiving occurs between two persons and so does coming from and going back to. These verses indicate hierarchy and individuality. God the Father had the authority to give, you will never see where Yeshua gave authority to His Father.
15. If the conversation includes an element of surprise, like when Yeshua was on the cross and asked His Father why He had forsaken Him. This would be strong evidence of individuality. Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:4
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
