The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

… “which was to prove our sin debt”’
To me that is not the point. But instead how none of us are any better than those we judge.

But what good will this do in the eternal perspective
A law is given for a reason. So the guilty can be charged. If there is no law you can not charge the guilty as James said if we keep the whole law yet even stumble in one point we are guilty of the whole law.
Paul even tells us we would not have known sin unless the law told us. As he said he was alive without the law then the law came and he died (the wage of sin is death)
The purpose of the law was so Israel would be ready when Jesus came. What is the first thing the law had to show them! Their guilt.
Why did they reject Christ? They did not understand their guilt so when John the Baptist told them to repent. They were like if what? I keep the law (which they did not)

To bring all things down that are lifted up. To me there’s a difference in “to prove sin debt” or for our good “to prove sin debt” in bringing all things in high places down unto the subjection of the obedience of Christ. Not “sin debt” needing to be paid against God for He needs our payment. (For His profit) but instead “sin debt” to bring our high mindedness down in subjection to what is good and right for our benefit (our profit)

Sin debt. There is a spiritual separation between us and God. It’s like your in prison the walls separate you from the ones you live. Well we are separated from God. And that debt has to be paid so we can be released from prison and our relationship restored

Yea. It also helps and shows us hot to be good and holy and how to walk. But if you’re still in prison what good does it do? You still are separated from God the prison walls still enclose you. If those are not taken away before you die. They never will be brought down. It will be an eternal death

Lyet, the biggest secret no one wants to admit (or talk about but talk around it) is we say He forgives us, but not others.

I would say the fact they still walk the earth. Still have free will and still control their destiny he has forgiven them, of their personal sin. But they still have a barrier. Jesus said we must be born again. It’s not an option one day every person has to make a choice to repent and believe or to remain in unbelief
Those who in faith trust god and look to the cross calling out to him have that prison wall torn down. They are no longer condemned those who chose not to look and remain in sin will still be left behind the walls and are still condemned (John 3). We must be born again because we are alienated from our maker. We must receive him and then he will make us children if God

All the time. It’s at the heart of how many excuses can we come up with for why some are chosen and some not?

I do not buy into this hateful double predestination doctrine we are free to chose. Or remain in unbelief

Well… there are tons. Most start with something we did …I mean what else are we saying when we say it’s because we accepted it? And others haven’t?

That’s what the word says
For god so loved the world that whoever believes
Whoever believes (recieved him) is not condemned whoever does not believe is condemned already

First I have to want it or take it or accept it. but see…we tell ourselves that’s different from “And God is just going to forgive us, But not others?”

He will forgive them too. If they believe.
His offer is to everyone. Not just certain people.

God kills the first animal and covers man with a dead animal….God covers man with something dead. I’m sure they were more surprised God covered them with the dead animal, than they were for the dead animal.

They had never seen death before. No they were the cause of that death. That had to hurt deeply. That they caused it. I do not think we can fathom

Forgiven. Delivered from?

Death (spiritual separation from God

The penalty of sin

A life apart from God

An eternity separated from God

Sins destructive chains

The power of sin

We are delivered from so much.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I mean there are some on this thread who think/ believe they still sin....a Born Again doesn’t sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed?

if we say we have no sin we are decieved

Let’s not be modern day Pharisees who think we have arrived. Let’s take focus off self and put it in Gid and stop trying to make the world think we have arrived. For if we do we are decieved

If you think you can’t sin God can no longer grow us or teach us. Because we would in effect be perfect

Run from those who say we have no sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It could also be that they have one of the 7 churches of Revelation in them. Those who aren't striving against sin or separating from the world.



According to 1 John 1:8 we still have sin. Through the flesh that is.

You are born again of the spirit, yes. But there's a battle. A war between the flesh and the spirit. This is something that must be understood.



KJV translation of that passage says no more condemnation for those who walk after the spirit.

Those who walk after the spirit is descriptive not prescriptive

I am no longer condemned not because I walk after the spirit

I walk after the spirit because I am no longer condemned (I am free from the bonds of sin they do not enslave me anymore so I am free to walk not by sight but by power)

 

[Behold]

According to 1 John 1:8 we still have sin.

According to 1 John 3:9, (KJV) which is John talking to the born again, we dont have sin.

How do you know?

Its because JESUS has it, on The Cross.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME... Eternal Sacrifice, for sin"

"God hath made JESUS to be SIN for US"...

So, if a person has sin, then Jesus does not have it, and you are not forgiven yet, which is why you still have your sin.

Understand?

You're more then likely "water baptized and religious", and that won't get you into heaven., reader.

 

[Nancy]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

God has always been merciful and forgiving. God forgives people so many times...uncountable. He gives blessings even to evil people. And He gives us time to see things rightly.

Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

Be holy for I am holy.

There are blinders on people's eyes..I know that.



But when the blinders come off, it is so apparent what Jesus came to do. If He gives us grace to walk in holiness, then there is no need of a never ending cycle of forgiveness. Like a drug addict who doesn't need any more drugs if he is no longer addicted.

So then Jesus tackled the ROOT of the problem of sin....and not the symptoms.

Jesus came to set us FREE from sin and bondage...not just cover it up. The POWER of the gospel is grace through faith that overcomes the sin nature by crucifying the part of us that sins.

And Jesus died for the whole word? Yes. But He was RAISED for our new life that we should walk in it now. That's why we are to seek first the kingdom...Jesus is waiting for us there. The Father translates us into HIM to walk as He walked.

The gospel is not a new religion....no, it is the power of God usward who believe. Which is by grace through faith.

Jesus sanctifies with His blood, not forgives,. Jesus is already merciful. God was ALWAYS merciful.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

It is a slight on God's character to think that God is so unmerciful that Jesus had to die to forgive our weaknesses. Rather, we are made strong in Him in our weakness. God chose a way for us to have victory over sin in our weakness...by grace through faith.


I suggest a revision of my post # 686 to understand the difference between FREEDOM from sin and a release from the penalty of sin (forgiveness).

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin...not IN our sin. He came to set the captives free. He came to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world.

Thank you Epi,
I know you dig really deep and I do know that the cross was for several reasons. What of 1 John 1:7? "7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Yes, God sure did forgive, incessantly, for centuries! But, without blood there is no remission of sins so this is where I need to include it. His blood was poured out for us for sanctification, absolution, and I believe also forgiving our initial sins and from there we learn to walk abiding in Him. I find myself giving thanks FOR His forgiveness if I slip up and just rest in that although, my sorrow for "missing the mark" is still there and a lifetime of asking for forgiveness over and over again was folly. Like God is in a swivel chair turning away from us till we ask forgiveness, then He swivels back to us again...that is insanity.

I won't state that I understand all you have to say but, that is just normal for me, lol.

I appreciate your reply brother, thank you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

According to 1 John 3:9, (KJV) which is John talking to the born again, we dont have sin.

How do you know?

Its because JESUS has it, on The Cross.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME... Eternal Sacrifice, for sin"

"God hath made JESUS to be SIN for US"...

So, if a person has sin, then Jesus does not have it, and you are not forgiven yet, which is why you still have your sin.

Understand?

You're more then likely "water baptized and religious", and that won't get you into heaven., reader.

So you’re saying we are sinless? And we no longer sin?

 

[Lizbeth]

Huh!...I never said I want forgiveness for continual sin?

Where have I said that?

I was set free from sin the moment I became Born Of God’s seed?

A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed?

My question is why do those who keep repenting Of their sin, not know that it has already been forgiven and it’s on Jesus, that’s my question?

When their spirit became Born Of God’s seed?

Born Of The Spirit....that is the divine visitation/ revelation...you can’t read that into being, that can only come from God’s witness His Living Holy Spirit....the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children/ Born Again.

I never looked to the cross and asked for forgiveness..like one on here said they did, ..that doesn’t even make sense to me.
God brought me to repentance/ Godly sorrow....how on earth would I know how to do that as a sinner that I once was?
I’m asking the Lord to help me figure this out and he will...I walk in faith and trust him to bring me to his truth...

Sister, welcome to the club. If you challenge and test or disagree with any or all aspects of his doctrine this is what you can expect. You can expect to be talked AT and talked OVER with oblique responses that don't actually address the actual point of what you said, coupled with ceaseless bullying of unjust accusations, insinuations and assumptions. And you might notice a strange feeling at times that you are having a conversation with a script. Lots of other things I could say as well, but anyway, there it is, and all the best to you.

 

[Ritajanice]

if we say we have no sin we are decieved

Let’s not be modern day Pharisees who think we have arrived. Let’s take focus off self and put it in Gid and stop trying to make the world think we have arrived. For if we do we are decieved

If you think you can’t sin God can no longer grow us or teach us. Because we would in effect be perfect

Run from those who say we have no sin.

Your reply of scripture has got nothing to do with being Born Of Gods seed.

That can only come by divine visitation/ heart/spirit revelation.

Which you know nothing about, imo..you lead yourself through the Bible from your own understanding.

You haven’t yet been able to explain being Born Of Gods seed!?

Run from people like you who can’t even explain what has been Born Again in us!

You like a few others, have no idea what divine revelation/ visitation means....

We’re in the righteousness of Christ...so yes God sees our sin no more...were made perfect in Christ.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Sister, welcome to the club. If you challenge and test or disagree with any or all aspects of his doctrine this is what you can expect. You can expect to be talked AT and talked OVER with oblique responses that don't actually address the actual point of what you said, coupled with ceaseless bullying of unjust accusations, insinuations and assumptions. And you might notice a strange feeling at times that you are having a conversation with a script. Lots of other things I could say as well, but anyway, there it is, and all the best to you.

We don’t need to know any doctrine to be Born Of The Spirit?

What are you actually trying to say?

That the Bible made your spirit Born Again?

Born of Gods seed?

And no I don’t have any strange feelings with scripture...it’s not Alive in the Spirit?

Plus we don’t go by feelings?

Why do you have to keep studying the scriptures, if you are Born Again?

Has God birthed your spirit into his?

God chose us for his purpose and plan...I go with that....walking in faith believing what he witnesses to my spirit all day every day.

I’m here to Glorify the Power Of Gods Spirit...not to recite scripture day after day...I serve a Living God....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If we say we have no sin we are decieved

The Corinthian church had to be disciplined by Paul because they were still babes. Needing milk not meat. They struggled with sin and struggled with truth

If we think the moment we are born again we become spiritually mature believers who no longer sin we are decieved in the worst way

 

[Ritajanice]

As soon as our spirit is Born Of The Spirit...God sees no sin in us as we are in the righteousness of Christ.

You know this by divine visitation/ heart/ spirit revelation...which can’t be understood by the natural man / woman.

Our spirit is Born Of God’s seed...His Spirit cannot indwell a sinner..we have been set free from sin...we are saved from eternal damnation as soon as we are Born Again..again this is by divine revelation/ visitation.

Just as the word of God says to his Born Again children.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s one thing to say God sees no sin in us

It’s a different thing to say we do not sin

Anyone who thinks they no longer sin is decieved. Those are the apostle John’s words not mine

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you Epi,
I know you dig really deep and I do know that the cross was for several reasons. What of 1 John 1:7? "7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Yes, God sure did forgive, incessantly, for centuries! But, without blood there is no remission of sins so this is where I need to include it. His blood was poured out for us for sanctification, absolution, and I believe also forgiving our initial sins and from there we learn to walk abiding in Him. I find myself giving thanks FOR His forgiveness if I slip up and just rest in that although, my sorrow for "missing the mark" is still there and a lifetime of asking for forgiveness over and over again was folly. Like God is in a swivel chair turning away from us till we ask forgiveness, then He swivels back to us again...that is insanity.

I won't state that I understand all you have to say but, that is just normal for me, lol.

I appreciate your reply brother, thank you.

Hey...



You can thank God every day for His forgiveness...because God is merciful. It's His nature to give and give and give, without expecting in return. God is a selfless Giver that's why He loves a cheerful giver.

When it comes to the cross and those who are looking to continue in sin with God's blessing ...that's where I draw the line. And that's where the biblical line is breached and destroyed.

Jesus came to make us holy...not forgive us since Jesus didn't have to die to make God merciful.

So the mercy has always been there. We can thank God for His many mercies all day.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

But the cross is about bringing us into an intimate walk with God who is holy. Without holiness none can see God...or walk with Him.

Of course we can follow Christ without holiness....from any distance we are comfortable with. But it's when people overturn the truth to self-justify and belittle God's work and character. That's what gets people cut off, or spit out.

When people try pretending they are something they are not, or as one person says...claim to be something the same way God does...calling something real that isn't yet real...well, that is hypocrisy.


Is it just ignorance? Or is there something more sinister at work?

Jesus blamed the Pharisees for not only not being able to enter into the kingdom...but stopping others from entering also. I hope that the more meek members are able to see through the charades and facades presented here and learn a little more about the truth.

Anyway that is my prayer.

 

[Ritajanice]

Always go by Gods word to his Born Again children, it makes sense to our spirit....man’s/ woman’s words do not heed they are full of nonsense/ confusion.

You know God in your spirit that is where his Witness the Holy Spirit resides as we have been birthed into the Spirit Of The Living Christ...our spirit is brought from death to life, by the Power of Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit....which is an incredible Living spirit birth....which I find very hard to understand when some play the spirit birth down.

1 John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hey...



You can thank God every day for His forgiveness...because God is merciful. It's His nature to give and give and give, without expecting in return. God is a selfless Giver that's why He loves a cheerful giver.

When it comes to the cross and those who are looking to continue in sin with God's blessing ...that's where I draw the line. And that's where the biblical line is breached and destroyed.

Well good thing these people are not saved. Because they have failed to repent

But it is dangerous to go 180 degrees out only because you have to draw a line. To reject the atonement of the cross is to reject the cross period

Jesus came to make us holy...not forgive us since Jesus didn't have to die to make God merciful.

This is where you are wrong. If Jesus did not die we would still be dead in our own sin

So the mercy has always been there. We can thank God for His many mercies all day.

The mercy was there because God knew Jesus would die. It does not come out of the blue. It was his plan all along. We see the first hint all the way back in genesis three

But the cross is about bringing us into an intimate walk with God who is holy. Without holiness none can see God...or walk with Him.

It does not good if we are holy yet still dead because of sin

Of course we can follow Christ without holiness....from any distance we are comfortable with. But it's when people overturn the truth to self-justify and belittle God's work and character. That's what gets people cut off, or spit out.

What gets people off is the root. The root of Christianity is the cross. If we get this wrong. Nothing else even matters

When people try pretending they are something they are not, or as one person says...claim to be something the same way God does...calling something real that isn't yet real...well, that is hypocrisy.

Well you do this very thing.

Is it just ignorance? Or is there something more sinister at work?

In your case it is just a misunderstanding of the cross and why Jesus had to die and how sinful you really are

Jesus blamed the Pharisees for not only not being able to enter into the kingdom...but stopping others from entering also. I hope that the more meek members are able to see through the charades and facades presented here and learn a little more about the truth.

Anyway that is my prayer.

Which is what you do. In keeping people from the gospel you keep them from the kingdom which is why you need exposed for what you teach. A false gospel. You come across and sincere and have a good message of preaching holiness. But it is lacking in the base premis which makes it false

 

[Ritajanice]

Sister, welcome to the club. If you challenge and test or disagree with any or all aspects of his doctrine this is what you can expect. You can expect to be talked AT and talked OVER with oblique responses that don't actually address the actual point of what you said

What on earth are you trying to say @Lizbeth ..sorry, but your post makes not an ounce of sense?

Doctrine...what has doctrine got to do with our spirit being birthed by the Spirit Of God?

Being enlightened is not being Born Of The Spirit...that is not how God says we are Born Again.

 

[Ritajanice]

God brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow...if Episkopos doesn’t believe that...then I would like him to explain why not?

As Gods word says his kindness leads us to repentance?

By whose power?

If one doesn’t repent...then there would be no spirit birth.= None!...still dead and alienated from God.

 

[Nancy]

Hey...



You can thank God every day for His forgiveness...because God is merciful. It's His nature to give and give and give, without expecting in return. God is a selfless Giver that's why He loves a cheerful giver.

When it comes to the cross and those who are looking to continue in sin with God's blessing ...that's where I draw the line. And that's where the biblical line is breached and destroyed.

Jesus came to make us holy...not forgive us since Jesus didn't have to die to make God merciful.

So the mercy has always been there. We can thank God for His many mercies all day.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

But the cross is about bringing us into an intimate walk with God who is holy. Without holiness none can see God...or walk with Him.

Of course we can follow Christ without holiness....from any distance we are comfortable with. But it's when people overturn the truth to self-justify and belittle God's work and character. That's what gets people cut off, or spit out.

When people try pretending they are something they are not, or as one person says...claim to be something the same way God does...calling something real that isn't yet real...well, that is hypocrisy.


Is it just ignorance? Or is there something more sinister at work?

Jesus blamed the Pharisees for not only not being able to enter into the kingdom...but stopping others from entering also. I hope that the more meek members are able to see through the charades and facades presented here and learn a little more about the truth.

Anyway that is my prayer.

Bearing our own cross. Working out our own salvation, strive to enter in the narrow gate as few there are...

What about the blood of Christ, was that not to cleanse us from sin? Make a way to the Father for sure but...doesn't the blood of God's perfect sacrifice do what bulls and goats did for a temporary fix, only His was permanent? Our sin gets nailed to the cross and starts a new covenant, aren't our sins forgotten by God far as East is from West? Were we forgiven already before the cross? And without blood there is no remission of sin.
I don't mean to be so questioney (lol) but I just get caught up on how and when and why Jesus had to spill His blood for us. I've been forgiven, but I'm not holy and not even sure how to be. I am celibate now for many, many years and it does not even bother me anymore, lonely but lot's of folks are lonely. But being holy is more than overcoming certain sins that once beset us... Sry-off track.

Yes, the mainline churches for the most part, around me anyhow, do not seem to want you to grow, they will always have the upper hand because they will "always know more than you". Hence, many fall through the cracks and never grow from day one. I too have been indoctrinated for decades but am growing and learning through the word, bible studies and love confrontational type debates as long as they are done maturely.

God bless you bro!

 

[Lizbeth]

We don’t need to know any doctrine to be Born Of The Spirit?

What are you actually trying to say?

That the Bible made your spirit Born Again?

Born of Gods seed?

And no I don’t have any strange feelings with scripture...it’s not Alive in the Spirit?

Plus we don’t go by feelings?

Why do you have to keep studying the scriptures, if you are Born Again?

Has God birthed your spirit into his?

God chose us for his purpose and plan...I go with that....walking in faith believing what he witnesses to my spirit all day every day.

I’m here to Glorify the Power Of Gods Spirit...not to recite scripture day after day...I serve a Living God....

I was just venting, not about you sister. Peace to you.

 

[Behold]

So you’re saying we are sinless? And we no longer sin?

Reader,


1.) Can you be this one......>"seated in Heavenly places, in Christ", .......and have any sin?

If so, you are a sinner, found in heaven, and you can believe that wont happen, and you can just ask the Devil and his angels what happens when you have sin, and are in heaven.
(you wont last long, there).

2.) Can you be joined to God, and and have sin, when its your sin that separated you from God, to begin with...?

3.) Is there SIN.. found "IN CHRIST", and all the born again are "IN Christ".

4.) Is there SIN, found In "GOD", and all the born again are "ONE with God".

A.) Jesus has our sin, died for it, took it to the grave, and rose again without it.

"but behold, how can i not have any sin"?

Very simple.
Jesus has it, 2000 yrs ago.. He bore it, BECAME IT, and died for ALL your sin...

But to understand all this, you have to go a little deeper.....into Paul's theology.

Like this..

What accuses the person of being a SINNER?

A.) The LAW... Its the LAW that defines carnal behavior as SIN.

So, when there is no LAW, there is no defining behavior.. as sin ever again.

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to/for, everyone who believes">..

Notice..

The born again are """"" not under the LAW.........but under Grace"......... and Grace always defines us as "made righteous"... as a "new Creation in Christ"... "born.. again".... as.. "THE righteousness of God in Christ".

"but behold, my church, my mother, my friends on the forum, and my Pope all said yesterday....that im still the same old sinner who has to confess sin, to try to keep myself saved, and OMG i hope i dont forget one !""""

Yet i know that your church/Pastor, Pope, taught you this nonsense... I know that you church has no understanding of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus and what it means to have become "made righteous".
Most Denominations are clueless regarding what Christ has eternally accomplished on The Cross, and by His Resurrection.

This is why im here....
It so that you can learn the JUSTIFICATION basics regarding = Paul's Doctrine... regarding what God has actually done for you through The Cross.., and then once you learn it, once you SEE IT..... you can teach it yourself, and help others to see Jesus as The Light of their Salvation, that their denomination, has not seen yet..... reader.
And that will be such a reward for you, when You meet Jesus, at the Bemas Seat.
That's a fact.