Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You are not thinking outside of the box, nor thinking about other Scriptures. You are only applying human logic.It's too bad some interpreters seem incapable of thinking outside of the box at times. I'm not suggesting they never think outside of the box, I'm only meaning in some cases they apparently don't, otherwise they wouldn't be coming to some of the absurd conclusions they do at times, but would be using Scripture to interpret Scripture instead.
Let's take this thief on the cross, as an example, and let's then pay close attention to what the thief said and what Jesus didn't say.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
There is obviously a connection here between all of these passages and what the thief said per the following below shows us how they are connected, the fact Christ never corrected him about anything, therefore, there was nothing to be corrected about.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Obviously, kingdom and paradise are meaning the same thing. Obviously, Christ never came into His kingdom upon death, and that the thief said to remember him when He comes into His kingdom. And that Christ then says---Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise--and not this instead--Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Or maybe it even could mean the latter but not the way some typically take it to mean. It could simply mean that that very day, the thief's fate was sealed and assured, that when Christ comes into his kingdom in the future, meaning when the NJ that comes down from God out of heaven, the thief will be in paradise with Him as well.
Otherwise we have to assume utter nonsense, such as Christ coming into His kingdom upon death if we take verse 43 to mean that very same day.
Clearly, both Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 22:1-22 identify the paradise meant in Luke 23:43. Therefore, what Jesus said in verse 43 was prophetic in nature and meaning when He bodily returns in the end of this age, that being when He is coming in His kingdom.
When humans ask a question it is not according to Scripture nor God's understanding at all times. Humans ask in the weakness of their human understanding. That does not mean we can then interpret the answer according to the human question.
While the thief wanted to be remembered at a certain point in time, as you all interpret, God does one better, and allows an exception to your all's understanding. The thief got to go to Paradise, the third heaven, that day, because God declared that a literal fact.
You all seem to deny the Sovereignty of God and what God can do when God so chooses to do something. God was on the Cross that day, not just a human pretending to be God. You all seem to forget certain facts in your overthinking.
Sure, the thief wanted what was promised to all who repented and trusted in the Words of Jesus. Jesus answered Him with a better option, because He was God, and the thief would be with God that day in a permanent incorruptible physical body, in physical Paradise, and he did not have to wait until Sunday morning to be resurrected.
The instant Jesus died, all the OT redeemed from all over the earth came physically out of their graves (the first resurrection) in a permanent incorruptible physical body. They all ascended on Sunday morning to Paradise physically with Jesus in His physical body. That week was the last day resurrection for all the OT redeemed waiting in Abraham's bosom. This was the OT rapture event.
Paul said all alive on earth and remain will be raptured. All the OT alive had the same event happen to them on resurrection Sunday morning, but no one was a witness to that event, because only Mary was ever told about it.
So saying the thief was the exception to the rule is admitting God's Sovereign will to do as God pleases, without bowing to human logic and understanding. The first resurrection happens to all the redeemed upon physical death. Where does Paul say we have to wait thousands of years in this verse: 2 Corinthians 5:1
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."
What verse says those currently in Paradise are groaning to be clothed upon? What verse says that even the OT redeemed are walking around as naked souls, even though they left earth with a physical body? Did God take away their first resurrection upon the soul entering Paradise? They came out of their tombs when Jesus was on the Cross. They left death and the grave (sheol) behind when they entered Paradise on Sunday.