The Restrainer. And the Restrained.

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Nancy Pelosi calls the Capital of the United States a Sacred Temple....

Personally I think it closer to a den of thieves, nest of vipers or maybe a Temple of Baal.

 

[Brakelite]

I have a question for you then, one I’ve been wanting to ask you. If a child grows up and both their parents worship on Sunday. And they forbid their daughter or son from worshipping on Saturday. If their parents are fully persuaded one must go to church on Sundays….Do they honor their parents or keep the Sabbath?

• No-one is offending God by going to church on Sundays.
• One is breaking the Commandment (4th) by not ceasing from selfish labor, that is secular work, and thus not keeping it holy.
• A child can do what they can while obeying their parents. She/he can still dedicate the Sabbath to God privately without being "in your face" to the parent by disobeying them on Sunday.

 

[Brakelite]

Tell us where the breach lies. I do not see it.

Thanks.

KJV Matthew 21:33
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Now we all know the vineyard is Israel, but do you know what the hedge is that protected them?

 

[Brakelite]

where do you think the breech actually lies? In my opinion the breech lies between God and man in: if a man says he loves God but yet hates his brother, the truth of God is not in that man. Mark 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

2 Timothy 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For ye are our glory and joy.

Revelation 3:10-11 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For ye are our glory and joy.
John 10:13-18 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. [17] Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. [18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For ye are our glory and joy.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For ye are our glory and joy.


Revelation 2:10-11 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. [11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For ye are our glory and joy.

2 Timothy 1:12-13 For the which cause I also suffer these things:

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
…nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. [13] Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The spiritual restoration of which the work carried forward in Nehemiah's day was a symbol, is outlined in the words of Isaiah: “They shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities.” “They that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.” Isaiah 61:4; 58:12.

The prophet here describes a people who, in a time of general departure from truth and righteousness, are seeking to restore the principles that are the foundation of the kingdom of God. They are repairers of a breach that has been made in God's law—a breach that has been widening since the death of the last apostles, as I was pointing out in earlier posts. The wall that He has placed around His chosen ones for their protection, and obedience to whose precepts of justice, truth, and purity was to be their perpetual safeguard. It is through the breach in God's law that the church has been weakened and confused. That breach which was brought about by man in the early centuries will be repaired. Is being repaired.

In words of unmistakable meaning the prophet points out the specific work of this remnant people who build the wall. “If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honor Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.” Isaiah 58:13, 14.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The spiritual restoration of which the work carried forward in Nehemiah's day was a symbol, is outlined in the words of Isaiah: “They shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities.”

Isaiah 65:21-25 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them ; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. [22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. [23] They shall not labour in vain, (1 Corinthians 15:8-10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:55-58 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Philippians 2:15-16 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; [16] Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them. [24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. [25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt (harm) nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

And they did plant 1 Peter 1:11-13 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. [12] Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit (his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.)
sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. [13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things…When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Thessalonians 1:10-12 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. [11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: [12] That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit (his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The prophet here describes a people who, in a time of general departure from truth and righteousness, are seeking to restore the principles that are the foundation of the kingdom of God. They are repairers of a breach that has been made in God's law—a breach that has been widening since the death of the last apostles, as I was pointing out in earlier posts.

Ephesians 2:14-18 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The wall that He has placed around His chosen ones for their protection, and obedience to whose precepts of justice, truth, and purity was to be their perpetual safeguard.

Zechariah 2:4-5 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein: [5] For I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

It is through the breach in God's law that the church has been weakened and confused. That breach which was brought about by man in the early centuries will be repaired. Is being repaired.

Genesis 38:27-30 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. [28] And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first. [29] And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. [30] And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

have you ever considered what the names Pharez and Zarah means?

 

[farouk]

Come again? That went over my head....;)

@Heart2Soul Sometimes a bit hard to figure what some posts are saying; sometimes I read a post and wonder whatever the meaning really is...

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Heart2Soul Sometimes a bit hard to figure what some posts are saying; sometimes I read a post and wonder whatever the meaning really is...

Me too and am afraid of sounding stupid if I ask....
But the teacher always said....there is no such thing as a dumb/stupid question.
(50 years later I have to disagree with her...lol)

 

[Oseas]

The greatness and glory of the Messiah's kingdom

The wilderness and the solitary places shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing...they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God. Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. Isaiah 35

Revelation 11:v.15 to 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my Sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to Judgment. The Sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom (battle of Ar-Mag-Edom(red). And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. For it is the Day of the Lord's Vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. Isaiah 34

Remember: Matthew 24:v.14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Yeah, the END is now, it is henceforward, from now onwards, it means until the fulfillment of Revelation 20:v.1-4.

Get ready

 

[Guestman]

Quoting from the 1611 edition of the King James Bible at 2 Thessalonians 2:7 that is archaic in wording is confusing, to say the least, for what does "only he who letteth will let" mean ? A clear, understandable, accurate English translation should be what everyone considers so as to not get lost, as of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10 reads: "However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here."(Note: Jehovah is God's name, Isa 12:2, KJV)

"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things ?"

"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved."(New World Translation)

If a person has a map that is totally confusing, and they want to go to Brisbane on the east coast but ends up at Perth, Australia on the west coast, they landed up just opposite where they wanted to go. This is no good. So, likewise with using inaccurate and confusing Bibles, that, instead of placing sincere Bible readers "on the right track", takes them "down a rabbit hole".

For example, at verse 1, Paul did not say: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him", but rather "However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him", for Paul did not use the Greek word erchomai that means "coming", but rather the Greek word parousia that means "presence". You can check it out for yourself with any quality Greek lexicon.(Jesus used the Greek word erchomai at Matthew 24:30 and the Greek word parousia at Matthew 24:3, 37, 39)

Jesus invisible "presence" began when he was enthroned as king of God's Kingdom in 1914, a heavenly government that was then "set up" at that time (Dan 2:44) and is poised to become fully operational and destroy the political system or "wild beast" that is the creation of "the dragon", Satan the Devil.(Rev 13:1-4; compare Daniel 7:1-8)

As the apostle Paul said, that "the day of Jehovah will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction", with "the day of Jehovah" being "the great tribulation" that is two phased (Matt 24:21), first being the destruction of the religions of the world called Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5, 16, 17) and the second phase being "the war of the great day of God the Almighty" called Armageddon (Rev 16:14, 16), a world situation that pits the political nations and their supporters, as well as the rest of those who do not honor Jehovah, against God's Kingdom.

The "apostasy" is when "the truth" became falsehoods and lies, for the word apostasy is from the Greek word a·po·sta·si´a that comes from the verb a·phi´ste·mi, and literally means “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion" against Jehovah's rightful authority, in which Satan is the original apostate.(Gen 3:1; John 8:44)

But in the context of 2 Thessalonians 2, it refers to the churches of Christendom, who have twisted Scripture and turned it into falsehoods, such as the "Holy Trinity", hellfire, immortality of the soul, the cross, Christmas, birthdays, Easter, purgatory, a clergy-laity class, etc.

And "the man of lawlessness" are Christendom's religious leaders who have exalted themselves and ' sat down in the temple of God ', wanting to be "somebody" with titles such as Reverend, Most Right Reverend, Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal, Pope (meaning "papa"), Monsignor (meaning "my Lord"), etc.(see Matt 23:8-10 whereby Jesus shows that his genuine disciples do not have religious titles, but qualified men do have positions of oversight, being "overseers" and "elders", see 1 Tim 3:1 and 1 Pet 5:1-4)

And at 2 Thessalonians 2:6, 7, Paul explains that it is the apostles who acted as "restraint" to the incoming tide of apostasy that began to develop not long after Jesus death.(Acts 20:29, 30) Jesus gave an illustration at Matthew 13:24-30 concerning this apostasy, in which true Christians ("wheat") would be "oversown" with "weeds" ("tares" KJV) or counterfeit Christians by "the enemy" Satan the Devil (Matt 13:39), so that "while men were sleeping" or after the apostles died, counterfeit Christianity would flourish until it is "burned up" during "the harvest season".(Matt 13:25, 30)

So, Paul now says at verse 8, that "the lawless one will be revealed (as the religious leaders of Christendom), whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence", during phase one of "the great tribulation" by means of "the ten horns" or member nations of the United Nations.(Rev 17:12, 16, 17)

Verses 9 and 10 says that "the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved."

To conclude, Malachi provides where "the truth" is found: "At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name."

“And they will be mine,” says Jehovah of armies, “in the day when I produce a special property. I will show them compassion, just as a man shows compassion to his son who serves him.And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him.”

“For look ! the day (of Jehovah) is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the presumptuous ones and all those practicing wickedness will become like stubble. The coming day will certainly devour them,” says Jehovah of armies, “and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But on you who honor my name, the sun of righteousness will shine, with healing in its rays; and you will skip about like fattened calves. And you will tread the wicked underfoot, for they will be like dust under the soles of your feet on the day when I take action,” says Jehovah of armies."(Mal 3:16-18 - 4:1-3)

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Before I can understand "the restraining of the restrainer" I need to "Believe God's Gospel Of GRACE, And Receive The Indwelling Teacher, God, The Holy Spirit," Correct?:

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but {The Words} Which The Holy Ghost Teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But, BEFORE That Can Take Place, I need to confess The DEITY Of The LORD
JESUS CHRIST, Who Is JEHOVAH, God Almighty, Correct?

If not, then:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[amigo de christo]

Nancy Pelosi calls the Capital of the United States a Sacred Temple....

just saying..
Hugs

My advice is , dont heed a word that woman says . The capital ..........a sacred temple . Its full of thieves and robbers .
Aint much sacred in there .

 

[amigo de christo]

or aka: the People's House

It aint the peoples house . Lest when you say people you mean the ELITE PEOPLE . Its infected sister .
Its all tanked . But i do have good news . JESUS IS LORD and the lambs HAVE ALL HOPE IN HIM . SO LIFT THOSE HANDS UP , SISTER ,
and LET THE LORD BE PRAISED . This world has tanked , BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER . CLING TO THE KING SISTER .
Just CLING TO THE GLORIOUS KING .

 

[amigo de christo]

What do you call it?

A den of thieves . This world has long tanked . And cursed is the man whose hope is in man .
But he whose hope is in the glorious Lord , now that one has all hope no matter what comes against them .
Arise one and arise all and LET THE LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thats right Ziggy . ITS LORD PRAISING TIME in this house . Lift those hands sister , and let the glorious Lord be praised .
Hard times are coming , But fear not , THE LORD IS WITH THE LAMBS .

 

[Timtofly]

I am talking about the restrainer that Paul warned the Thessalonians would soon be removed, making way for the Antichrist. Paul told the Thessalonians first verbally, then again in this second letter, but didn't name it specifically having already done so. He is not talking about the little horn of Daniel 8:9. He is talking about the one Daniel wrote of in Daniel 7:25,25. The early church fathers knew who Paul was talking about. They had heard it likely first hand from those who spoke with Paul, and others later knew from earlier generations. There was never anything written by them referring to the man of sin, the son of perdition, coming as a result of the withdrawal of the holy Spirit, nor was there anything written by them suggesting that the power holding back that man of sin was anything other than pagan Rome. I have barely addressed what is being held back, desiring first to establish for certainty the identity of the actual restrainer. That power, identified by Paul, and known exclusively by the early church as being Rome. Pagan Rome was not holding back the work of God among His people. the various persecutions by the emperors only made the church stronger, and gave life to the gospel. Pagan Rome wasn't the enemy the early church feared. They could deal with that. What they were concerned about was the Antichrist. That little horn power (but still Roman) of Daniel 7 which would destroy 3 nations, was proud, arrogant, more powerful than all the others, would make war with the saints and prevail over them (vs20) , would be diverse from all the others in some way, and grow into such a power that it would evour the whole earth, something pagan Rome never did. This little horn would speak blasphemy against God, again wear out the saints, think to change times and laws (now ever power does that right, so what was so significant about this one...its talking about God's laws, and God's times), and this little horn is given even a specific lifespan. Elsewhere in scripture, that same lifespan is given to the same power going by a different name, most significantly Revelation 13:1-8.

That little horn you are referring to did not belong to Greece. It came out from the four winds. It is but another earlier representation of Rome. It is not Antiochus as is believed by so many, and it can be disproved to be so for many reasons.

"Many reasons" is not proof. It is about Greece. Daniel does not even address Rome. He ran out of time. Daniel does not address today's events either. John takes up where Daniel ended. And none of this has to do with Rome nor the first century, and horns and kingdoms.

Without the writings of Josephus and perhaps the writings of Maccabees, we would have no historical record to compare Daniel with. Yes there is an historical record of Greece outside of these two sources, but no one until modern times attempted to put Rome of the first century into prophecy. Is there a way to go through all the records that can be found in the Vatican to prove the exact history of the church? Could we see who thought what? Otherwise we can only speculate.


As for who was that one Paul is referring to: it has always been the Holy Spirit restraining Satan. Satan has always tried to maneuver humans to do all the work for him. Satan is the God of forces, mentioned in Daniel who backed any king who would fall prey to this manipulation.

The early church knew who Satan was and his working behind the scenes. Any who spoke out against apostasy were martyred by those apostate rulers decieved by Satan. Whether those rulers were earthly government or apostate church leaders.

 

[amigo de christo]

"Many reasons" is not proof. It is about Greece. Daniel does not even address Rome. He ran out of time. Daniel does not address today's events either. John takes up where Daniel ended. And none of this has to do with Rome nor the first century, and horns and kingdoms.

Without the writings of Josephus and perhaps the writings of Maccabees, we would have no historical record to compare Daniel with. Yes there is an historical record of Greece outside of these two sources, but no one until modern times attempted to put Rome of the first century into prophecy. Is there a way to go through all the records that can be found in the Vatican to prove the exact history of the church? Could we see who thought what? Otherwise we can only speculate.


As for who was that one Paul is referring to: it has always been the Holy Spirit restraining Satan. Satan has always tried to maneuver humans to do all the work for him. Satan is the God of forces, mentioned in Daniel who backed any king who would fall prey to this manipulation.

The early church knew who Satan was and his working behind the scenes. Any who spoke out against apostasy were martyred by those apostate rulers decieved by Satan. Whether those rulers were earthly government or apostate church leaders.

Are you absolutely sure that daniel makes no mention of Rome .
I want to show you something that might indeed help you out .
Be encouraged . Are you ready .
Open the bible to daniel . Chapter eleven . Now read real slowly .
You will come to a part that says , and the prince , aka dark king , shall come out of the kingdom of
the one who was taxing Israel later . WHO was taxing Israel during the days before JESUS , even at his birth .
WHO was doing this . ROME WAS .
There is one more thing i want to remind us all about which concerns the last days .
Read this real slowly . First let me say , have you noticed the massive increase of inquity and the honoring of said inquity in these days .
I remember as a child that , while evil was for sure in the world , The nations never honored it as they do today .
Today they celebrate their sins in the streets with big rainbow flags and big messages like ITS MY BODY .
The news and govts and sadly churches even now accepting sin and calling evil those who would profess GOOD
and calling good those who do profess and honor EVIL .
Now for THE REMINDER .
GET READY .
And in the LATTER TIME of their kingdoms , WHEN , WHEN the transgressors have come to the full
THEN STANDS THE DARK KING . have ya noticed what also is going on amongst even the churches and all religoins and even the secular .
At the same time THEY CHANTING with voices , WE ARE ONE , UNITY , UNITY FOR WORLD PEACE .
AND HOW does this dark king destroy , THROUGH PEACE . EVEN NOW ITS IN THE WORLD .

 

[Timtofly]

But don't you realize those were already in the church but needed to "overcome" They weren't newly learning about Jesus.

Where is the church mentioned in Revelation 13? This is still a future event. How can it literally apply to any other time in past history?

Overcoming can be applied to the spiritual struggles of every day life. Not necessarily any certain point in history. Those in concentration camps during world war 2 struggled every day to stay alive until the end, and not all were successful. That is not really the application to apply to God's Word. Saying one should just endure until the end of the tribulation is the same thing as applying it to a specific time frame like the holocaust.

Applying it as spiritual would not apply to the physical body being saved. It would mean one remained spiritually true to God like Job did, when he was tested. So even if this physical body dies, it was the soul that was saved. In the case of the trib when the choice is made to worship Satan or having one's head cut off, that would not be physically enduring, that would be ending one's physical life to remain spiritually true to God. Either way, the endurance is about the soul being faithful to God, not us being faithful to this physical body.

 

[amigo de christo]

Notice TEN TOES upon the feet of the great image .Notice also this beast upon which has ten horns . Notice also in revelation
TEN KINGS shall rule ONE HOUR with the beast .
WHY do i bring this up .
Go to and behold this world and examine the FIVE G digitial system , WHICH INDEED is nothing but a means for total power and control .
THEY GONNA CHIP THE MASSES and WHO is the one behind the scenes that work as one to get the FIVE G SET UP .
WELL ITS THE D TEN FOLKS . D WHO .......................TEN . SOMETHING AINT RIGHT . WE ARE WAY FARTHER ALONG
than most would even dare to peek at . CLING TO JESUS and STAY PLANTED IN THOSE BIBLES .
For this world and her false religions have come up with such a sinistir plan . TO MOLD ALL AS ONE unto the BEAST
They can keep this nimrod fake tower and false ways to GOD . I GOT MINE , ITS JESUS CHRIST and HE ALONE SAVES .
FOLKS cannot see what is going on . But the lambs can .

 

[Timtofly]

Are you absolutely sure that daniel makes no mention of Rome .

I did not post that. I said he did not address Rome.

Rome is the period mentioned as the two legs of iron.

Daniel went into detail about Persia and Greece. Then he ran out of time. He also sealed up part of his dreams and we are not privy to them.