The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

[Phoneman777]

LOL. Circus clown or comedian. Which are you?

Using your terribly flawed and nonsensical logic, you are both a Jesuit Futurist and a Jesuit Preterist because you agree with at least one thing that each of those ridiculous end times systems teach. Using your ridiculous logic you also are a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon and a Muslim. And a bunch of other things. Congratulations.

You refuse to answer whether the Man of Sin arose in the 1st century or are waiting for him to arise in the future because the former makes you a Jesuit Preterist and the latter, a Jesuit Futurist.

I'm a Protestant Historicist who knows Papal Rome arose in the 6th century in 538 and reigned the prophesied 1260 days (years) until 1798 - a fact that is almost completely forgotten by those who think they understand prophecy but are really "useful idiots" of the papacy which promote their agenda for them.

 

[Timtofly]

According to the prophetic timeline and history, the Man of Sin is Papal Rome that was restrained from arising by Pagan Rome. See, the prophetic timeline tracks Babylon to MP to Greece to Rome, to the Ten Barbarian Horns which arise out of the ashes of Rome, to the Little Horn "Man of Sin" which arises after Rome falls.

So Satan was papal Rome?

You are not getting that Satan was the 7th head with ten horns, but you will some day.

 

[Phoneman777]

So Satan was papal Rome?

You are not getting that Satan was the 7th head with ten horns, but you will some day.

That's not what Protestant Historicism teaches. Satan and his entire occult kingdom is represented by "the great dragon".

Daniel clearly establishes the papacy as the Little Horn, so when we get over to Revelation and see the parallels between the papal Little Horn and the Beast of chapter 13, we know where to pick up the story with John.

 

[Timtofly]

That's not what Protestant Historicism teaches. Satan and his entire occult kingdom is represented by "the great dragon".

Daniel clearly establishes the papacy as the Little Horn, so when we get over to Revelation and see the parallels between the papal Little Horn and the Beast of chapter 13, we know where to pick up the story with John.

What we get from Daniel 2 is that the church demolished this image at the Reformation. Your little horn is immaterial other than it was part of the Roman historical record.

John picks up at the Second Coming, which is not part of Daniel 2 at all.

We should know that the Second Coming did not happen during the Reformation.

I am not an Amil who declares Satan is bound, or cannot work behind the scenes. The church is holding Satan back as always, and Satan chooses not to be revealed, as that would destroy his deception and under cover handedness.

I have made many post pointing out that the dragon, sea beast, and scarlet colored beast are the same 6 historical kingdoms and as the 7th head, Satan is the 8th kingdom on the earth.

 

[Phoneman777]

What we get from Daniel 2 is that the church demolished this image at the Reformation. Your little horn is immaterial other than it was part of the Roman historical record.

The "stone cut from no man's hands" is the church?

Jesus is the "Rock/Fortress/Deliverer".
Jesus is the "Stone that the builders rejected".
Jesus is "that Rock" which "was Christ".
Jesus is the "Rock" ("Petra") upon which the church is built.
Jesus is "the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel".
Jesus is "the Rock" to "Whom I will cry".

Can you see by now that the "Stone" is the Second Coming of Jesus?

 

[Timtofly]

The "stone cut from no man's hands" is the church?

Jesus is the "Rock/Fortress/Deliverer".
Jesus is the "Stone that the builders rejected".
Jesus is "that Rock" which "was Christ".
Jesus is the "Rock" ("Petra") upon which the church is built.
Jesus is "the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel".
Jesus is "the Rock" to "Whom I will cry".

Can you see by now that the "Stone" is the Second Coming of Jesus?

Is the church not the body of Christ? That is one of your points in objection to the church being that stone.

This is exactly what Jesus said:

"Upon this rock (Jesus Christ) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus did not fill the earth. The church as the body of Jesus Christ filled the earth. The statue was destroyed at the ten toes by the church built upon the rock, the stone not cut out with human hands.

The stone grew throughout time from the Cross, until it has become a mountain to fill the whole earth. That is not a central controlled human government. That is local believers in small groups throughout the world. The Reformers were not the sole means of bringing the fifth kingdom to an end. The Reformation was just the end of the 5th kingdom.

 

[Phoneman777]

Is the church not the body of Christ? That is one of your points in objection to the church being that stone.

Yes, but that's irrelevant because the prophecy is clear that the Stone striking the image marks the time when Christ sets up HIS KINGDOM - not sets up His church - and remember that over and over, the setting up of Christ's kingdom is at the end of time, not the beginning of the first A.D. millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, but that's irrelevant because the prophecy is clear that the Stone striking the image marks the time when Christ sets up HIS KINGDOM - not sets up His church - and remember that over and over, the setting up of Christ's kingdom is at the end of time, not the beginning of the first A.D. millennium.

"Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

That was the dream, and not one mention about a kingdom being set up.

But the kingdom was established on the earth as a foothold, at the Cross, as that was when the stone was cut out, no?

Now the interpretation:

"And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."

Which kings? All of them, from the head to the toes. This kingdom of God of heaven is the church. There is not a separate church from the kingdom of God of heaven. Jesus said this kingdom of God was already in existence even before the Cross, but could not be physically observed. Just because only 1 or 2 was in the kingdom, does not mean that it did not exist.

"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them."

The dream included all parts even the brass, silver, and gold. That means the kingdom set up existed during all these phases. But it was not a mountain filling the earth until the Reformation.

I am not sure how you think the second coming of Christ is when the statue is destroyed? This dream never said Christ was setting up a kingdom at all. Many parables claimed that God had already set up a kingdom, and sent the prophets, then even sent His Son, Jesus Christ. So the Son was not setting up this kingdom. Jesus was just the rock, stone cut out without hands, upon which the church was established. The first century was when the kingdom started to grow and gain momentum. But the Reformation was when the image of Daniel 2 no longer existed.

The kingdom of God of heaven is still without observation, as the vast majority are in Paradise. Only ambassadors hang out on the earth. But those ambassadors still fill the earth as local congregations.

The 7th Trumpet is not Jesus setting up a kingdom. The 7th Trumpet is declaring that all of humanity and every nation is now in that kingdom on the earth.

"Thy kingdom come, thine will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."

 

[Phoneman777]

"Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

That was the dream, and not one mention about a kingdom being set up.

I never said the dream contained any mention of Christ's kingdom being set up.
That's found in the interpretation.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom,

See? The Stone striking all the earthly kingdoms and destroying them directly precedes the setting up of Christ's kingdom.

Therefore, your idea that the stone striking the image is Jesus establishing His church at His first advent doesn't make sense.

 

[Timtofly]

I never said the dream contained any mention of Christ's kingdom being set up.
That's found in the interpretation.

See? The Stone striking all the earthly kingdoms and destroying them directly precedes the setting up of Christ's kingdom.

Therefore, your idea that the stone striking the image is Jesus establishing His church at His first advent doesn't make sense.

The kingdom was established in heaven, not on earth, and it was there in heaven during all these kingdoms while they were on the earth.

It is the church on earth that became a mountain filling the earth, but the church did not bring the kingdom of heaven to the earth. They were ambassadors gathering a harvest for that heavenly kingdom.

I never said the stone struck the image at the first advent. I pointed out all 5 kingdoms of Daniel 2 were destroyed and ceased to exist at the Reformation. The stone started at the Cross, and kept getting bigger and bigger symbolically. I have no point of reference to say every generation had millions more believers than the prior generation. It is God who gave the dream and said the stone would grow in size when it struck the image at the toes, thus 5 were fallen at the Reformation.

"And the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

The NT church was established on Jesus Christ and has filled the whole earth. But the point of impact was the Reformation.

We have been in the 6th kingdom for hundreds of years, that is mortally wounded. That kingdom is in a state of death, not viable.

The stone cut out was Jesus. The kingdom of heaven in heaven was already established during all these kingdoms. Jesus was teaching that the kingdom of heaven was already established way before He came to earth.

The stone becoming a mountain was the church through the power of the Holy Spirit. The church is the body of Christ on the earth. The church is not a kingdom set up by Christ. It is symbolized as a nation filling the whole earth, but not an earthly nation.

The church is only a representation of the kingdom of heaven while on the earth. Calling it the church once one is in heaven is pointless. All in heaven are part of the kingdom of heaven while in heaven.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is the church on earth that became a mountain filling the earth, but the church did not bring the kingdom of heaven to the earth. They were ambassadors gathering a harvest for that heavenly kingdom.

Look, the only way the stone could be the church is if it struck the image in the shins, because that's about the time the church was set up on Earth - about 200 years after the rise of the Roman Empire.

Understand?

The Stone that strikes the feet and toes points to the Second Coming, not the start of Christianity.

 

[Timtofly]

Look, the only way the stone could be the church is if it struck the image in the shins, because that's about the time the church was set up on Earth - about 200 years after the rise of the Roman Empire.

Understand?

The Stone that strikes the feet and toes points to the Second Coming, not the start of Christianity.

So the Reformation is meaningless to you and nothing changed even though that was the death nell for the Holy Roman Empire, or papal states as you call them?

While the doctrines of the papal states persisted in several Protestant organizations, the governmental authority was forever removed from being a cohesive Empire. We see the rise of Colonization and declared governmental authority given to several individual countries vying for supremacy. But none ever controlled the earth above all the others, as they all remained independent.

The Second Coming is when Satan revives the 6th kingdom. How can that be the end of the first five kingdoms, when the 6th kingdom has already been mortally wounded for hundreds of years? The reason there is a 6th kingdom is because the first five have been dead for centuries. Daniel 2 only has 5 kingdoms, not 6, not 7, and definitely not 8. Satan was not mentined at all in Daniel 2. The only entity on earth after Jesus left for heaven, was the church, to represent Christ on the earth. The church was never to be a nation or kingdom in authority over the earth. But you claim the papal states as that authority after Pagan Rome. That would be the apostate church, no? I just see that as The Holy Roman Empire, as that is a term used by many for that period of time.

I don't need to argue over who all played a role and who you all think Daniel was referring to. I am just covering the time frame of this Statue in Daniel 2. The time frame is up during a long period of time called the Reformation. It was not an exact year. Just like the transfer between Greece and Rome, was not an exact year, but you seem to want an exact point in time to base your Historicism on.

Obviously you think the stone is only cut out at the Second Coming, as that seems to be the point Jesus would fill the earth, and I don't even know if you think there is going to be a future millennium. So what does fill the earth even mean to you?

The Cross was when the stone was cut out, not when the stone destroyed the statue, so why do you keep saying that is my point? I keep saying that the Reformation was when the toes were hit destroying the entire statue, because that is what Daniel wrote. I have never stated the statue was destroyed during the first century. This stone did not just destroy the toes. The dream states all the elements, gold, silver, brass, iron, and clay were destroyed and mixed together.

"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them."

None of those elements would have any more power ever. Yet your eschatology is based on the papacy somehow revived at the end.

You keep saying the church was set up. That is not what is set up. The stone was not set up. The stone was cut out and became the church.

This verse is not talking about Jesus Christ, nor the church on the earth.

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."

That was the heavenly kingdom, not even the stone that was cut out. Jesus talked about that heavenly kingdom before He was even crucified. Jesus was the last person sent after many OT prophets talking about that kingdom of heaven.

Now the church on earth are ambassadors after Jesus came and left, but the church is only a tip of the kingdom of heaven. The church represents individuals sent after Jesus, but the kingdom was already established way back in the time of the Babylonian Kingdom. The point of the kingdom filling the earth, is that more and more individuals on the earth would represent that heavenly kingdom, not that the kingdom of heaven had come to the earth. That kingdom of heaven does not even come at the Second Coming. Even pre-mill are wrong as that kingdom established way back in the OT, only comes as the New Jerusalem, and it does not fill the earth. It is just a normal city on the earth. At least normal for that new earth. Not very normal for our current earth.

 

[Phoneman777]

So the Reformation is meaningless to you and nothing changed even though that was the death nell for the Holy Roman Empire, or papal states as you call them?

While the doctrines of the papal states persisted in several Protestant organizations, the governmental authority was forever removed from being a cohesive Empire. We see the rise of Colonization and declared governmental authority given to several individual countries vying for supremacy. But none ever controlled the earth above all the others, as they all remained independent.

The Second Coming is when Satan revives the 6th kingdom. How can that be the end of the first five kingdoms, when the 6th kingdom has already been mortally wounded for hundreds of years? The reason there is a 6th kingdom is because the first five have been dead for centuries. Daniel 2 only has 5 kingdoms, not 6, not 7, and definitely not 8. Satan was not mentined at all in Daniel 2. The only entity on earth after Jesus left for heaven, was the church, to represent Christ on the earth. The church was never to be a nation or kingdom in authority over the earth. But you claim the papal states as that authority after Pagan Rome. That would be the apostate church, no? I just see that as The Holy Roman Empire, as that is a term used by many for that period of time.

I don't need to argue over who all played a role and who you all think Daniel was referring to. I am just covering the time frame of this Statue in Daniel 2. The time frame is up during a long period of time called the Reformation. It was not an exact year. Just like the transfer between Greece and Rome, was not an exact year, but you seem to want an exact point in time to base your Historicism on.

Obviously you think the stone is only cut out at the Second Coming, as that seems to be the point Jesus would fill the earth, and I don't even know if you think there is going to be a future millennium. So what does fill the earth even mean to you?

The Cross was when the stone was cut out, not when the stone destroyed the statue, so why do you keep saying that is my point? I keep saying that the Reformation was when the toes were hit destroying the entire statue, because that is what Daniel wrote. I have never stated the statue was destroyed during the first century. This stone did not just destroy the toes. The dream states all the elements, gold, silver, brass, iron, and clay were destroyed and mixed together.

"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them."

None of those elements would have any more power ever. Yet your eschatology is based on the papacy somehow revived at the end.

You keep saying the church was set up. That is not what is set up. The stone was not set up. The stone was cut out and became the church.

This verse is not talking about Jesus Christ, nor the church on the earth.

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."

That was the heavenly kingdom, not even the stone that was cut out. Jesus talked about that heavenly kingdom before He was even crucified. Jesus was the last person sent after many OT prophets talking about that kingdom of heaven.

Now the church on earth are ambassadors after Jesus came and left, but the church is only a tip of the kingdom of heaven. The church represents individuals sent after Jesus, but the kingdom was already established way back in the time of the Babylonian Kingdom. The point of the kingdom filling the earth, is that more and more individuals on the earth would represent that heavenly kingdom, not that the kingdom of heaven had come to the earth. That kingdom of heaven does not even come at the Second Coming. Even pre-mill are wrong as that kingdom established way back in the OT, only comes as the New Jerusalem, and it does not fill the earth. It is just a normal city on the earth. At least normal for that new earth. Not very normal for our current earth.

Look, just please answer my two points about how (1) the only way the Stone could represent the birth of Christianity is if it struck the image in its Roman shins - and (2) it can only represent the Second Coming of Christ because it strikes the feet/toes which represents the destruction of all remaining earthly kingdoms which, obviously, isn't until the end of time.

 

[amigo de christo]

So to disagree with you makes one an acolyte of Jesuit teaching? WOW!

Actually if you are to be historically accurate your template falls short. Let us look!

Daniel two gives us the great statue and gives a defining identity for the four kingdoms (the fourth being incomplete!

Yes we see Babylon, The medes and Persians, the greeks and Rome. Then the ten toes, in which when they are established--is when we see Jesus return! He has not so the ten toes cannot be the barbarians. Europe is now far more than ten kings!

Now let us look at another part of Daniel that is critical in understanding the times of the Gentiles. Daniel 7:

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Verse 23 is vital- this fourth beast will devour the WHOLE earth. The old Roman EMpire did not do this. It did not even devour the known world. Nor conquer as far as Greece did under Alexander.

Once the fourth beast has devoured the whole world comes the ten kings and then the antichrist!

To break down the fourth beast, it is as follows

1 The Roman
pire starting in the fourth century (the two legs)

Eastern- Constantinople then to Russia

Western- Rome, G
Empire
2. The divided Emermany Rance Spain, Britain and the US
3. The time it devours the world Dan. 7
4. the 10 toes or toen horns (ten rulers of the world)
5. The antichrist or 11th horn.

these are ten kings who have recieved no kingdom as yet
but shall , they shall rule one hour with THE BEAST .
Take note .
what do we learn about this beast in revelation .
That ITS DEADLY WOUND was healed .
Take note that this FP , had horns like a lamb but speak as a dragon . SO IT COMETH from WITHIN ALL RIGHT .
now it has power to do signs and wonders , aka call down fire from heaven .
take note what has been going on in these last ten years or so .
A move has grown , and it came of THE RCC .
now both the pope himself as well as others and prostenant leaders
were Ushering in a unifying as one again .
GUESS what they call it . HEALING THE WOUND . I KID you not
and the same ones in the protestant realm
at the KAIROS event were HOLLING HUGE , FIRE FROM HEAVEN , FIRE FROM HEAVEN
concering MIRACLES .
SUMETHING AINT RIGHT my friend .
AND what does this love religoin they have created honor , ANTI CHRIST
as all other religoins , NO NEED TO REPENT TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
OH but it dont stop there .
WHAT can and will this DIGITAL SYSTEM that is RUN BY AI , which AI can produce an image
that can speak in any langague . and he giveth life unto the image that the image can speak .....................SUMETHING AINT RIGHT ,
WHAT can that system do , YOU NO COMPLY , YOU NO BUY . and he caused all to ..........
AND it dont stop there .
Look again .
WHO is the one ushing in the five g digital ai led tech to the western socities
THE D TEN pardner . TEN WORLD LEADERS . now on that i am not yet sure
if these are the ten kings , BUT WHAT I AM SURE ABOUT is these D TEN
BUILD THE VERY SYSTEM OF THE BEAST . so , yeah , WE RUNNING OUT O TIME .

 

[amigo de christo]

Why would some future little horn person want to stop meaningless daily sacrifices?

Also, you know a doctrine is weak when it relies on something to happen that is very unlikely to actually happen (a new temple being built). The same things that have prevented that from happening for over 1,900 years will likely continue to prevent that from happening until the end of time. But, even if such a temple was built, it would not be the temple of God as your doctrine would require it to be.


Goodness sakes. You think I'm going to trust what those who practice Judaism say? Not a chance. Get your information from scripture, Doug, not from false religions.

what i type to one i type to all .
folks better beware of judaism . ITS INFECTED with talmud new age kabbla doctrine .
My advice
If we want to seek the true city , true temple , true jerusalem , true zion
RUN TO CHRIST JESUS , ITS ALL ABOVE IN HEAVEN NOW and this be the city we await to COME .
The ISRAEL OF GOD , IS THE ISRAEL OF JESUS THE CHRIST
wherein the middle wall of partation has been broken down .
wherein both believing jews and gentiles are now ONE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
this aint blasphemous , ITS TRUTH . ITS DIRE IMPORTANT
that folks stop trying to run to this modern jewish movments
stop trying to be a natural jew .
ANd rather LET us start learning CHRIST and that BIBLE for ourselves .
My best guess is you probably already agree with what i wrote my friend . but hey i had to write it anyway .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

what i type to one i type to all .
folks better beware of judaism . ITS INFECTED with talmud new age kabbla doctrine .
My advice
If we want to seek the true city , true temple , true jerusalem , true zion
RUN TO CHRIST JESUS , ITS ALL ABOVE IN HEAVEN NOW and this be the city we await to COME .
The ISRAEL OF GOD , IS THE ISRAEL OF JESUS THE CHRIST
wherein the middle wall of partation has been broken down .
wherein both believing jews and gentiles are now ONE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
this aint blasphemous , ITS TRUTH . ITS DIRE IMPORTANT
that folks stop trying to run to this modern jewish movments
stop trying to be a natural jew .
ANd rather LET us start learning CHRIST and that BIBLE for ourselves .
My best guess is you probably already agree with what i wrote my friend . but hey i had to write it anyway .

Yes, I agree with everything you said here. It's undeniable, in my opinion.

 

[amigo de christo]

It is LORD praising and thanking time in the building .

 

[Timtofly]

Look, just please answer my two points about how (1) the only way the Stone could represent the birth of Christianity is if it struck the image in its Roman shins - and (2) it can only represent the Second Coming of Christ because it strikes the feet/toes which represents the destruction of all remaining earthly kingdoms which, obviously, isn't until the end of time.

I did. Did Jesus Christ become a large mountain to fill the earth, or the symbolic body of Christ, called the church? The church is not going to fill the earth at the Second Coming.

The 5 kingdoms of Daniel 2 only represent the first 5 heads of the 7 headed dragon / 7 headed sea beast / 7 headed scarlet colored beast.

Daniel never gave a time frame how long before the stone was cut out, and when it actually hit the statue. Why would the Second Coming be the point the stone was cut out?

In Revelation 17 we have 8 kingdoms as happening. That is 3 more than the 5 in Daniel 2. You have to explain those extra 3 as much I have.

You imply the papal states are still controlling every nation on earth, and even Islam cannot do a single thing, without the Pope giving the ok. That is what was lost at the Reformation. Those 10 toes stopped having power and authority over the same area Rome did a thousand years earlier.

Jesus came to earth per the promise given to Daniel by Gabriel. I don't see why that was not the point the stone was cut out. If it would eventually fill the whole earth, why not start at the Cross?

No where does the dream say the statue was hit after the mountain filled the earth. No where does the dream say the stone was cut out thousands of years after the toes reigned. Nor even you seem to have the earth filled, being post Millennial. The earth would end immediately the same instant the stone was cut out, and the mountain would never fill the earth, because the earth just ended. How does that make sense?

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest...."

This is not the explanation of the stone hitting the statue.

"These kings" are the entire statue. While this (we see later in Revelation) Satan effected statue was forming, God established the kingdom of heaven.

The ten toes were never said to be ten kings. The entire statue consisted of 5 kings.

The actual stone cut out was not until Jesus came to earth and established the church. The church on earth was not the kingdom established of heaven. There were OT prophets sent from the kingdom of heaven even before Jesus, the son was sent. Jesus explained the kingdom of heaven before the Cross even happened, and the NT church started to fill the earth. But the entire statue was destroyed at the Reformation, because those papal states lost all authority as a world controlling empire, like the first four all lost their power and authority with each new kingdom. Even Greece is still a nation today, but has no authority concerning Jerusalem like it did prior to Rome.

 

[Phoneman777]

I did. Did Jesus Christ become a large mountain to fill the earth, or the symbolic body of Christ, called the church? The church is not going to fill the earth at the Second Coming.

The large mountain that fills the whole earth is still future - when Christ comes and sets up His kingdom.

The thief on the Cross didn't expect to be remembered until "Thy kingdom" which is at the end of time, same as Daniel 2.

If we place the comma where it should go which is AFTER the word "today", then Jesus confirmed this by saying, "Verily, I say unto you today (while I'm hanging here looking like anything but the Savior of the world), you will be with me in Paradise".

 

[Timtofly]

The large mountain that fills the whole earth is still future - when Christ comes and sets up His kingdom.

The thief on the Cross didn't expect to be remembered until "Thy kingdom" which is at the end of time, same as Daniel 2.

If we place the comma where it should go which is AFTER the word "today", then Jesus confirmed this by saying, "Verily, I say unto you today (while I'm hanging here looking like anything but the Savior of the world), you will be with me in Paradise".

So you would rather change Scripture, and state Jesus failed to redeem the thief that day, but the thief would be redeemed from sheol in a couple thousand years, or more?

You do not like that thief very well, to condemn him to sheol.

Don't you also believe that the earth is desolate for another thousand years after Jesus returns or are you a post Millennial SDA, where things keep getting better and better?

Here is Luke's account for verification:

"But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Notice that the thief asked when Jesus comest or arrived into thy kingdom. Luke does not write that as when Jesus returns to set up a kingdom. Even Amil say Jesus is currently reigning as King, as their millennium started at the Cross. Their kingdom on earth starts after the final resurrection, but after this age is over.

Jesus entered the Kingdom when He ascended into heaven on Sunday morning after talking to Mary.

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her."

Jesus told us the kingdom of heaven was without observation in heaven. That was the kingdom the thief would have been asking about. The one Jesus had been talking about.

But the kingdom of Christ from the Cross, until now, was the church on earth representing that heavenly kingdom.

Why would we need to be told that Jesus spoke those words "that day"? Was there another day on a Cross without any thieves?