The Millennial Kingdom

[ewq1938]

And as you suggested, Jesus was here after rising from the dead. But he had not yet put on his immortal body, as I understand it. He had to go to heaven to get that.

He rose in an immortal body.

Luk_20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

When the saved are resurrected, they cannot die anymore.


Rom_6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Our resurrection will be the same or like the resurrection of Jesus. If we resurrect as immortals, so did Christ.


1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


The saved dead (includes Jesus) will rise in incorruption and power which is another way to say "immortal".


1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Immortality comes to all who are saved, the dead and the living.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

"this corruptible shall have put on incorruption" and "death swallowed up in victory" is another way to say "immortal".


Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

A glorious or glorified body is another way to say the body is immortal.


Jesus rose in an immortal glorified body and so shall the saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

He rose in an immortal body.

Yes, I've discussed this before. I see no reason to believe Jesus rose in anything other than his mortal body. He still had the scars of his crucifixion. That was, in fact, his old body.

When he asked Mary not to "keep him," insisting that he had to "ascend to God," he was indicating that he had to get his immortal body in heaven from his Father in heaven.

That is why the Church, at Christ's Coming, has to be "caught up to heaven" so as to receive new immortal bodies. The new immortal bodies are given out by God in heaven, and not on the earth. My opinion only....

Luk_20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

When the saved are resurrected, they cannot die anymore.

Jesus was raised in his old body, just like Lazarus was. Lazarus was resurrected but could die again, and did. The Church, when it is raised in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, will immediately put on immortal bodies. So we will not be raised up in our old bodies, but will have totally new constructed bodies for us.

A glorious or glorified body is another way to say the body is immortal.

I agree. A glorified body is an immortal body. Same thing.

Jesus rose in an immortal glorified body and so shall the saved.

Jesus being raised in his old body represents us who are condemned to death in our mortal bodies. So when Jesus is raised up in his old body, on our behalf, and then qualifies us to enjoy with him the rights to a new immortal body, we are not only freed from condemnation in our old bodies but qualified for new immortal bodies and eternal life with God.

 

[Peterlag]

As to the OP, the only thing I might disagree with is the timing of the NJ. IOW, I tend to think the NJ will already be here upon the earth during the thousand years though the text gives the impression that it doesn't come down until after the great white throne judgment. IOW, there will be plenty of room in the NJ to house everyone, because if there isn't, how does one explain that that is where saints will be dwelling forever with Christ, regardless when one thinks the NJ initially comes down to the earth?

I'm an expert on the characteristics of the resurrected Christ. This is not my field and I really don't care about it since I believe I will be off the planet before any of this stuff starts to happen. I will either be in heaven or on the earth with Christ in his kingdom. I posted a little on this because Christian everywhere make all kinds of statements about this subject and just about all of them have to whom it is addressed and the times all screwed up. They quote what is for Israel thinking it applies to the Christian. They quote the times thinking stuff is going to hit the fan before Christ returns. The Bible says Jesus is going to restore Israel. It does not say the United Nations is going to restore Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, I've discussed this before. I see no reason to believe Jesus rose in anything other than his mortal body. He still had the scars of his crucifixion. That was, in fact, his old body.

His old body was changed into immortal so scars, and hios facial features and everything can be preserved. The scars also identified him, otherwise no one would believe it was him. Everything about his and the future resurrection indicates immediate immortality.

When he asked Mary not to "keep him," insisting that he had to "ascend to God," he was indicating that he had to get his immortal body in heaven from his Father in heaven.

There is nothing at all there about not being immortal.

That is why the Church, at Christ's Coming, has to be "caught up to heaven" so as to receive new immortal bodies.

Wrong. The dead and the living are changed into immortals before the rapture takes place. The rapture, which is to the clouds not "heaven", is only moving people. It is unrelated to whether someone is immortal or not.

The new immortal bodies are given out by God in heaven, and not on the earth. My opinion only....

That is only for the dead in heaven which further proves they are immortal before the rapture happens because they are in heaven to receive that heavenly body. The living are changed to immortal on Earth, then afterwards are raptured up to the clouds. They have to be changed first, else they would die as they reached the clouds because mortal humans cannot survive there.

Jesus was raised in his old body, just like Lazarus was. Lazarus was resurrected but could die again, and did.

Jesus was not raised back to mortality. Again, many scriptures attest to this in rejection of a mortal resurrection.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm not clear if there is a disagreement with what I posted.

No disagreement or agreement.

This: "It's not because I don't believe that the Kingdom of Christ is come, and is coming after His return in a literal 1,000 reign of the Messiah. It's just that I don't understand how "old Jerusalem" fits with New Jerusalem in accordance with the above scriptures, if New Jerusalem has not descended from God out of heaven yet."

.. invited your comment on it because I wanted you to comment, because what you say about it it might help me reconcile what seems to be two opposing types of Kingdom of Messiah (like a physical temple in Jerusalem and the one and only Tabernacle of God, who is Christ and those who are in Him through faith in Him, are two irreconcilable ideas of what sort of Temple God dwells in).

@ewq1938 The "why?" behind Satan's hatred of the Jews and obsession with the land that we see causing terrible wars and causing things like putting the Red Sea merchant fleets, and hence world trade in jeopardy, should cause all Christians - including Amillennialists - to sit up and take note, and ask why is it that Satan has such an obsession with the land, and with getting the land out of the hands of the Jews and keeping Judea (the West Bank) out of their hands?

But New Jerusalem is not present-day Jerusalem, and if New Jerusalem only descends to the New Earth following the thousand years, then not everything makes sense.

 

[ewq1938]

No disagreement or agreement.

This: "It's not because I don't believe that the Kingdom of Christ is come, and is coming after His return in a literal 1,000 reign of the Messiah. It's just that I don't understand how "old Jerusalem" fits with New Jerusalem in accordance with the above scriptures, if New Jerusalem has not descended from God out of heaven yet."

.. invited your comment on it because I wanted you to comment, because what you say about it it might help me reconcile what seems to be two opposing types of Kingdom of Messiah (like a physical temple in Jerusalem and the one and only Tabernacle of God, who is Christ and those who are in Him through faith in Him, are two irreconcilable ideas of what sort of Temple God dwells in).

I'm still not clear exactly what you mean. I have stated there is one kingdom and that "Millennial kingdom" is invalid because only the rod of iron rule over the nations ends, not the kingdom.

@ewq1938 The "why?" behind Satan's hatred of the Jews and obsession with the land that we see causing terrible wars and causing things like putting the Red Sea merchant fleets, and hence world trade in jeopardy, should cause all Christians - including Amillennialists - to sit up and take note, and ask why is it that Satan has such an obsession with getting the land out of the hands of the Jews and keeping Judea (the West Bank) out of their hands?

satan hates Christians not Jews although I suppose he has hate for all humans in general.

But New Jerusalem is not present-day Jerusalem, and if New Jerusalem only descends to the New Earth following the thousand years, then not everything makes sense.

What doesn't make sense?

 

[Zao is life]

I'm still not clear exactly what you mean. I have stated there is one kingdom and that "Millennial kingdom" is invalid because only the rod of iron rule over the nations ends, not the kingdom.





satan hates Christians not Jews although I suppose he has hate for all humans in general.





What doesn't make sense?

If the geographical territory and city of Jerusalem is not part of New Jerusalem now, then why in the millennium?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus was not raised back to mortality. Again, many scriptures attest to this in rejection of a mortal resurrection.

Not "many Scriptures"--I see none, or perhaps they are a matter of interpretation? We disagree. But it is just my opinion. Things are not absolutely clear, as I see it.

 

[ewq1938]

Not "many Scriptures"--I see none, or perhaps they are a matter of interpretation?

It's just old fashioned doctrinal blindness.

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Christ could not die again because his resurrection was to physical immortality.

We all know there are two resurrections.

1. to immortality and eternal life
2. a return to mortality.

Jesus and the dead in Him experience the first one.

 

[Timtofly]

But as to me, I don't see the problem with mortals and immortals co-existing at the same time. Obviously, once Christ rose from the dead He became immortal and was dwelling among mortals at the time.

Have you read Genesis 6 and 7?

Scripture calls them sons of God, as the term "immortals" does not exist in Scripture. They did live together for about 1500 years and the sons of God became as corrupt as Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Then God destroyed them all in a Flood.

There is no way good people can turn bad people good. Not even in perfection. Besides the iron rod rule indicates all must be destroyed if they are bad.

The saints are the first generation of the Millennium. Their offspring are not mortal nor immortal. These saints are the redeemed firstfruits including the 144k of the final harvest. They are the wheat and sheep redeemed after the Second Coming. They are not sons of God because they are still only a soul and a body. They procreate and fill the earth for a thousand years.

The church consist of the redeemed in Paradise who are made sons of God at the Second Coming. Those currently in Paradise are of the resurrection, and do not procreate.

The only souls on earth who are resurrected are the beheaded during the 42 months given to Satan. Obviously they are the only one's who physically died. The firstfruits including the 144k were changed without experiencing physical death. Instead of being caught up in the rapture, they were changed directly by Jesus or the angels who were gathering them for judgment.

The thousand years is not a chance for current humanity to get things right. The Millennium is the earth itself being brought under subjection. The responsibility of humanity given in Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

1 Corinthians 15:27-28

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

It is just not that all enemies are destroyed, even death. It is that the earth itself is subdued. Creation itself is being restored, made alive, over those 1,000 years.

That is the order Paul gave. Adam did not just bring death on humankind.

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Two things here: the resurrection of humanity out of death. And all of creation made alive from a state of death.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's just old fashioned doctrinal blindness.

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Christ could not die again because his resurrection was to physical immortality.

You are arguing what you haven't yet proved. The argument I've been making is that Jesus was raised up in his old, scarred body---not in an immortal body. You are just continuing to assert your position without proof.

We all know there are two resurrections.

1. to immortality and eternal life
2. a return to mortality.

Jesus and the dead in Him experience the first one.

Again, you're arguing what you have not yet proved, by simple assertion. We know resurrection can be to a mortal body--not necessarily to an immortal body.

We know Jesus and the Church will all have an immortal body at some point in the future. What we have to prove is what kind of resurrection did Jesus have after his earthly ministry?

In my view it was strictly a resurrection to a mortal body, only to have a new immortal body put on after his ascension to heaven. The only proof I have that Jesus' resurrection was 1st to a mortal body is the fact he had the scars of his crucifixion.

No sense arguing this further unless there is more evidence, whether from you or from me. Have a nice day.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, I've discussed this before. I see no reason to believe Jesus rose in anything other than his mortal body. He still had the scars of his crucifixion. That was, in fact, his old body.

Jesus never had a state of death physical body. Jesus was God in a physical body. Jesus was not a human who became a son of God after a resurrection.

Of course Jesus had the same body He was born with. It was never corruptible. That body was made corruption for a brief moment on the Cross, when Jesus took on the sins of the entire world, but was not permanently made corruptible.

Jesus was not conceived in Adam's corruption from a human father. God became flesh in the womb with that permanent incorruptible physical body mentioned in 2 Corinthians 5:1, a building not made by human hands.

The glory given to Jesus was the reward of obedience. It had nothing to do with receiving a different physical body.

I still do not understand why so many cannot see that Adam physically changed the instant he disobeyed God. Adam went from being a son of God in that permanent incorruptible physical body, to being the father of a temporal corruptible physical body passed down upon all mankind. Adam literally went from incorruptible to corruptible physically. Adam went from life to death. He put off immortality to take on mortal flesh. That is what God did instantly when Adam disobeyed, the reverse of what happens at the rapture to those on earth who have the second birth.

Adam lost the outer covering, the robe of white, his spirit. Adam lost the permanent incorruptible physical body. All Adam had was reliance on the Holy Spirit as a connection with God once he left the Garden/Paradise. Adam stopped being a son of God as fast as we will become sons of God in all of our soul, body, and spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

We all know there are two resurrections.

1. to immortality and eternal life
2. a return to mortality.

Jesus and the dead in Him experience the first one.

Being brought back to Adam's corruptible physical body is not the Resurrection Jesus had in mind when He said He was the Resurrection and the Life.

Only two humans in Scripture were dead longer than 30 hours.

"Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."

Now we can assume Jonah was dead or was kept alive. We are told that Jesus likened His physical death in the tomb to the same length of time Jonah was in the bowels of that great fish. We are never told that Jonah was resurrected. The closest we get is:

"I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God."

Jonah seemed to indicate being removed from corruption, but was implied as being vomited out alive.

I don’t see how being near death physically as being the same as literally spending time in the grave where the soul has left the body for more than 40 hours. Lazarus was dead for 48 hours. Those who came back to life were never buried nor placed in a grave except Lazarus. A resurrection is not just being brought back to life, but being called out of the grave days later. Jonah was not even buried in a grave. He was being returned back to the land he came from, as he had been sailing for days in the opposite direction. Nineveh is a journey on foot from Israel, not a journey by ship.

There is only one resurrection, out of a grave.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life."

A resurrection is when the soul leaves Abraham's bosom and enters God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

There is no Life in Adam's dead corruptible physical body. We are not currently in Life, we live in a state of death. Only Life can escape the second death.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus never had a state of death physical body. Jesus was God in a physical body. Jesus was not a human who became a son of God after a resurrection.

I can't make sense of your statements?? "Never had a state of death physical body?" What does that even mean? "Was not a human who became a son of God after a resurrection?" What does that even mean?

Who even said that? Who said that Jesus was a human who became a son of God after a resurrection?

Of course Jesus had the same body He was born with. It was never corruptible.

The verse that promised Jesus would not be allowed to suffer corruption had to do with his decomposition. It had nothing to do with his mortality, or with his ability to see death.

That body was made corruption for a brief moment on the Cross, when Jesus took on the sins of the entire world, but was not permanently made corruptible.

You are not defining "corruption" in this context. Jesus was "mortal," whether his body "corrupted" in the grave or not. "Corruption," in this sense, refers to decomposition--not death alone.

Jesus was not conceived in Adam's corruption from a human father. God became flesh in the womb with that permanent incorruptible physical body mentioned in 2 Corinthians 5:1, a building not made by human hands.

Jesus was "incorruptible" in the womb? What does that even mean? Jesus was "mortal" in the womb. He could die, and did die. That is what "corruptible," as you are using the word, means!

The glory given to Jesus was the reward of obedience. It had nothing to do with receiving a different physical body.

Jesus' glory "had nothing to do with receiving a different physical body?" Of course it did! He died for us so that we also may rise up to have immortal bodies, just as he received one. This is our major hope!

I still do not understand why so many cannot see that Adam physically changed the instant he disobeyed God. Adam went from being a son of God in that permanent incorruptible physical body, to being the father of a temporal corruptible physical body passed down upon all mankind.

I don't see it because you're reading your own views into the passage. Adam was called a "son of God" because he was created in the image of God originally. After him, not all acted like "sons of God!"

The physical change that accompanied the Fall had to do with the onset of the effects of Sin, which allows for sickness, injury, and ultimately death.

In my view, Adam began with a mortal body that could die. If he had taken from the Tree of Life he would've qualified for a new immortal body.

Adam literally went from incorruptible to corruptible physically. Adam went from life to death. He put off immortality to take on mortal flesh. That is what God did instantly when Adam disobeyed, the reverse of what happens at the rapture to those on earth who have the second birth.

Adam lost the outer covering, the robe of white, his spirit. Adam lost the permanent incorruptible physical body. All Adam had was reliance on the Holy Spirit as a connection with God once he left the Garden/Paradise. Adam stopped being a son of God as fast as we will become sons of God in all of our soul, body, and spirit.

I don't think Adam ever stopped being a "son of God." He simply fell from grace, and had to rely on a future Redeemer to get reinstated to unbroken relationship with God legally.

 

[Davidpt]

You are arguing what you haven't yet proved. The argument I've been making is that Jesus was raised up in his old, scarred body---not in an immortal body. You are just continuing to assert your position without proof.

Why would that not be an immortal body once He rises from the dead? Obviously, maybe not to you though, the very moment He rose from the dead He became immortal. How could He not be immortal the fact He was apparently walking around with no blood flowing through His veins, for one? After all, wasn't His blood spilled at Calvary? Just some of it? Or every drop of it? Why wasn't He still in excruciating pain if He wasn't immortal yet? Face it, there is no logic to Him not being immortal the moment He rose from the dead.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why would that not be an immortal body once He rises from the dead?

You would have to ask God that. Jesus rose up in the very body he died in. He had the scars to prove it. Why do you ignore this? I'm just supporting what the Bible says.

I have ideas about why God did it this way. But here I'm just dealing with the biblical facts. You don't seem to want to agree with that?

Obviously, maybe not to you though, the very moment He rose from the dead He became immortal.

That is contrary to the biblical record. An immortal body would not have scars of a crucifixion. Either that or Jesus was faking his resurrection to Thomas.

How could He not be immortal the fact He was apparently walking around with no blood flowing through His veins, for one?

Who said he did not have blood flowing through his veins?

After all, wasn't His blood spilled at Calvary? Just some of it? Or every drop of it? Why wasn't He still in excruciating pain if He wasn't immortal yet? Face it, there is no logic to Him not being immortal the moment He rose from the dead.

No, Jesus would not be in excruciating pain anymore than we would if we were not being beaten and hung on a cross. Even more so, Jesus was sinless even while he was in his mortal body during his ministry.

He could feel pain, but only when God let evil people afflict him with it. After his resurrection his suffering had been completed, and God would not let him suffer from the abuse of evil people any longer.

Believe what you want. I will, as well.

 

[Randy Kluth]

As an explanation as to why God would raise up Jesus in his mortal body, the body he had been crucified in, I would suggest this. Jesus became the stand in for us, as well as our conduit, so that we could experience, through him, eternal life and the rights to immortality.

So Jesus was healed on our behalf, just as he healed the bodies of may sick people, and even raised people back from the dead. But the people Jesus healed were restored to their old sin-infected bodies, whereas Jesus himself was resurrected and restored to his mortal body, free of sin.

This is as though we are being restored, with him, not to fallen, mortal bodies, but rather, to sinless, mortal bodies so that like him we may receive immortal bodies later, when we ascend to heaven. When Jesus ascended to heaven, I believe it was to obtain from God in heaven his new immortal body. He did this, I think, so that through him we may qualify to obtain immortal bodies when we are caught up to heaven too.

Notice that Jesus "ascended" to heaven, whereas we have to be "caught up" to heaven. Jesus was both "caught up" and "ascended" to heaven for our sake so that even though we aren't able to do this on our own we are able to do it through Jesus who was able to do it by the power of God.

 

[Timtofly]

I can't make sense of your statements?? "Never had a state of death physical body?" What does that even mean? "Was not a human who became a son of God after a resurrection?" What does that even mean?

Who even said that? Who said that Jesus was a human who became a son of God after a resurrection?

The verse that promised Jesus would not be allowed to suffer corruption had to do with his decomposition. It had nothing to do with his mortality, or with his ability to see death.

You are not defining "corruption" in this context. Jesus was "mortal," whether his body "corrupted" in the grave or not. "Corruption," in this sense, refers to decomposition--not death alone.

Jesus was "incorruptible" in the womb? What does that even mean? Jesus was "mortal" in the womb. He could die, and did die. That is what "corruptible," as you are using the word, means!

Jesus' glory "had nothing to do with receiving a different physical body?" Of course it did! He died for us so that we also may rise up to have immortal bodies, just as he received one. This is our major hope!

I don't see it because you're reading your own views into the passage. Adam was called a "son of God" because he was created in the image of God originally. After him, not all acted like "sons of God!"

The physical change that accompanied the Fall had to do with the onset of the effects of Sin, which allows for sickness, injury, and ultimately death.

In my view, Adam began with a mortal body that could die. If he had taken from the Tree of Life he would've qualified for a new immortal body.

I don't think Adam ever stopped being a "son of God." He simply fell from grace, and had to rely on a future Redeemer to get reinstated to unbroken relationship with God legally.

Obviously you along with everyone else is stuck in early church father's theology, where they mixed Greek philosophy and metaphysics into Scripture.

I am going by Scripture. Human theology is not.

When Paul speaks of corruption putting on incorruption, he is not talking about rotting flesh. He is talking about us alive as corruption and unable to approach God. That is why Adam was banned from God's presence. Not just because Adam could live forever as a sinner eating from the Tree of Life. That Tree of life would just let him live forever in corruption. The corruption of a sin nature and the decay of the physical body over time indicate corruption, but continually being disobedience is more than a dying body.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus made a very plain and simple statement in Matthew 5:5: “The meek will inherit the earth.” Jesus did not invent that statement; he quoted Psalm 37:11. Many of the Jews of Jesus’ time had lost sight of the hope that Israel would be restored on earth, and the situation is the same today. The simple meaning of Matthew 5:5 has been lost due to the traditional teaching that saved people live in heaven forever after they die. Actually, what the Bible teaches is that Jesus Christ will come down from heaven to the earth, fight and win the Battle of Armageddon, and set up his kingdom on earth, which will fill the whole earth (Ps. 2:8; 72:8-11; Dan. 2:35; 7:14; Mic. 5:4; Zech. 9:10; Rev. 2:8; 19:11-21). He will set up his palace in the newly rebuilt Jerusalem, and for 1,000 years reign over all the earth. All the people who have been saved will be there because they will have been raised from the dead. Many scholars refer to this 1,000-year kingdom as the “Millennial Kingdom.” It is the first 1,000 years of the “Kingdom” that Jesus spoke about so often when he taught about “the Kingdom of God.” After the 1,000 years are over there will be a great war (Rev. 20:7-10). Then there will be the second resurrection, and after that the Everlasting City will come down from heaven to earth, and all the saved people of all time will live in it forever (Rev. 21:1-4). Thus, the future reign of Christ on earth is divided into two parts, the Millennial Kingdom, which will last 1,000 years (Rev. 20:1-7), and the Everlasting Kingdom, which will last forever (Rev. 21-22).

If " the great city" is "spiritually" "called Sodom and Egypt"...then surely these things are all subject to translation by the Spirit.

Go figure--each of the messages to the churches is followed by Jesus, saying, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

And these are the times written of that "the mystery of God would be finished, as he declared to his servants the prophets."

Thus, the common understanding of the would be "millennial kingdom"--or "the meek will inherit the earth" for that matter--is mostly incorrect.

Yes, Psalm 37:11 is closer to the truth, and yes, there is a component of good to each understanding of what is perhaps meant. But that is not why Jesus said it. He said it because it was a spiritual way of saying that only eluded to the fact that Israel had reaped the world wind. The good component? Salvation.

As for the "thousand year reign of Christ" (or the time of Satan being bound), Peter gave the caution...but here we are with many still considering things literally or literarily rather than spiritually. Perhaps we have deserved these many thousands of years of mystery.

Even so, the mystery of God is to be "finished" during these times.

--Time for one more riddle?​

If a thousand years is of this world and a day is of the Lord (by their own measure), how long is the reign of Christ and how long is Satan bound?​

 

[ScottA]

You are arguing what you haven't yet proved. The argument I've been making is that Jesus was raised up in his old, scarred body---not in an immortal body. You are just continuing to assert your position without proof.

Again, you're arguing what you have not yet proved, by simple assertion. We know resurrection can be to a mortal body--not necessarily to an immortal body.

We know Jesus and the Church will all have an immortal body at some point in the future. What we have to prove is what kind of resurrection did Jesus have after his earthly ministry?

In my view it was strictly a resurrection to a mortal body, only to have a new immortal body put on after his ascension to heaven. The only proof I have that Jesus' resurrection was 1st to a mortal body is the fact he had the scars of his crucifixion.

No sense arguing this further unless there is more evidence, whether from you or from me. Have a nice day.

If I may interject...

Man was brought forth by God from the dust of the earth--so was the Son of man. That is the body that was raised from the dead, and as it is written, "the body returns to the dust, and spirit to God who gave it."

Meaning, there was no glorification of the flesh to immortality as some believe. But it is rather as Jesus said, "take, eat, this is My body"...which is to say that He gave His flesh body to the church. And as confirmation, He also said on the cross, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit"--not His flesh.