The Israel Of God Is The Church

[Marty fox]

Call it what you want, it’s still absolutely false.

The Jeremiah 31 new covenant that Jesus brought us, is with the HOUSE of Israel and HOUSE of Judah, not with the church.

The church has no covenant whatsoever. The Jewish Messiah mediates the Jewish new covenant, and salvation only came to gentiles to make Israel jealous - and the gentile church has to be grafted in to that Jewish covenant by faith - all per Romans 11.

Not true gentiles are saved because God wants all people to be saved

1 Timothy 2:1-7
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

By your line of though how would you place Seth,Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Isaac?

 

[Marty fox]

And Romans 11 also makes it fairly clear that we are NOT to count out the National, ‘broken off’ branches either. Which means any sort of anti-Semitism under the guise of “them not being the people of God any longer” is just bunk. We love a people until the final plan of God is known for them (ie…they are dead and buried).

False claims of "Antisemetism" believe my way or your a Antisemite, smiles!

Only the Remnant Jew will be called and chosen, your claim of all "National" Israel is way out in left field

Will you pretend as if the scripture before your eyes is non-existant?

Gods words below are "Bunk"?

Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ; ) unto this day.

Gods words clearly show (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below

Matthew 21:43KJV

3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;[/QUOTE]

If you think that I did I did not write the quote in red

 

[Hidden In Him]

Oh, for goodness sakes, so outraged that you needed to bold it AND red highlight it?

THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THAT GOING ON IN THIS THREAD, AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO READ.

GOD BLESS YOU, SISTER, AND ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU ON THE FORUM. HOPE YOU HAD A NICE CHRISTMAS!

 

[Marty fox]

I can’t be amil, because of all the prophecies in both Testaments, that Messiah Jesus will set up an eternal, physical, and literal kingdom on earth, in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of King David, which is obviously not happened yet.

The prophets wrote Old Testament prophecies to guide the Jews back to God and talked about the first advent which all people got wrong it was a spiritual kingdom not physical.

Most of the church still have it wrong today and talk about a physical kingdom for their end time views. Gods kingdom is spiritual not physical there is no need to go back to Old Testament time rituals to guide people to Jesus as Jesus already completed everything needed

 

[Marty fox]

I am not exactly an Amillennialist, but closest to being Amil, then any other end time position.
And Replacement Theology is unbiblical.
Romans 11 makes it untenable.
Inclusion Theology, yes. Fulfilment Theology, yes. Replacement Theology, no.
Do people just conveniently forget that the Church STARTED out as a fundamentally Jewish thing? It was founded by Jews, it was grown by Jews (it’s head is a Jew!), it’s Plants across the ‘known world’ was at first by Jews. The Gentiles were included…welcomed INTO that, yes. Welcomed into it and adopted AS children of God, as neither ‘Jew nor Greek’…but there was NO replacing…just including.
And Romans 11 also makes it fairly clear that we are NOT to count out the National, ‘broken off’ branches either. Which means any sort of anti-Semitism under the guise of “them not being the people of God any longer” is just bunk. We love a people until the final plan of God is known for them (ie…they are dead and buried).

I am amil but you are mistaken the church started out before Israel in Genesis as they were saved in the same way that we are

 

[Marty fox]

See…I don’t have a problem with that. You want ‘eternal’…I say ‘eternity’. You want ‘physical, literal kingdom’…I say ‘eternity’. You say ‘in Jerusalem’…I say ‘How’s about the New Jerusalem?’ You say ‘the throne of King David’…I say ‘well…weren’t all those promises for ‘eternal thrones and kingdoms anyway…cough…eternity!’
And those thing seem, to me, to fit in with the fact that the NT just doesn’t fit another ‘age’ in-between ‘this age’ and ‘the age to come’. And it certainly doesn’t beat around the bush with Christ’s second coming. When he comes again we see the dead raised and judged (both just and unjust) the living given their resurrection bodies which does away with sin and death, and the cosmos being melted. So….just where, after all of that, do we even FIT a time period where folks in natural bodies go about their business which apparently includes sin AND death….?

Amen

 

[Keraz]

You are the one in egregious error.

But you misinterpreted Romans 11:14 to mean: the Gentiles would become envious.
It was Paul's hope that as the Gentiles became Christians, the Jews would follow. This did not happen and now the Jews face Judgment and only a few will survive.

The belief of a general Jewish redemption is never found in the Bible and is just a part of the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.

 

[Keraz]

See…I don’t have a problem with that. You want ‘eternal’…I say ‘eternity’. You want ‘physical, literal kingdom’…I say ‘eternity’. You say ‘in Jerusalem’…I say ‘How’s about the New Jerusalem?’ You say ‘the throne of King David’…I say ‘well…weren’t all those promises for ‘eternal thrones and kingdoms anyway…cough…eternity!’
And those thing seem, to me, to fit in with the fact that the NT just doesn’t fit another ‘age’ in-between ‘this age’ and ‘the age to come’. And it certainly doesn’t beat around the bush with Christ’s second coming. When he comes again we see the dead raised and judged (both just and unjust) the living given their resurrection bodies which does away with sin and death, and the cosmos being melted. So….just where, after all of that, do we even FIT a time period where folks in natural bodies go about their business which apparently includes sin AND death….?

You miss out the clearly stated prophesies about the Millennium.
God's Plan for the redemption of mankind is in stages. We are now at the end of the Christian era and many dramatic things must happen before Jesus Returns and commences the final age to demonstrate the proper way to live under His divine rule.
THEN comes Eternity, Revelation 21 to 22

 

[Truth7t7]

Your error seems to reside in the fact that you’ve clearly seen me saying that National Israel are ‘the children of God’ when I haven’t. Please…point back to the place where I did…I’ll be waiting.

Yes you clearly suggest in post #33 that "National" Israel will be grafted back in and saved

Scripture clearly teaches only the Remnant Elect Jew will be saved, the rest are blinded

Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ; ) unto this day.

Quote Naomi25 Post #33:

"And Romans 11 also makes it fairly clear that we are NOT to count out the National, ‘broken off’ branches either. Which means any sort of anti-Semitism under the guise of “them not being the people of God any longer” is just bunk."

 

[Truth7t7]

My good man…it is not ‘pretending scripture is non-existent’ or that ‘God’s word is ‘bunk’, by placing it within its OWN CONTEXT!
What do you read JUST AFTER 11:7-8?

Romans 11:11-12
So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

As Paul wrote, yes, there was only an elect Jewish remnant. At present, there is only an elect Jewish remnant. And going forward, there is promised to ALWAYS be an elect Jewish remnant. HOWEVER…Paul also promises that there will be a “full inclusion”. That “all Israel” will be saved. That their hardening was salvation for the Gentiles, so how glorious will their ‘full inclusion be?’ “Life from the dead!” He exults!

Now…there are different interpretations of what these references could mean, but it is a valid interpretation to say that we need to be open to the possibility that “when the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled”, God will bring in massive numbers of Jews. To Christ. And as Christians, we ought to long for this day, not fight against it. I cannot think of a single reason why any of us would for one moment want a single person, regardless of race or creed or religion, NOT to come to Jesus. Can you?



Your error seems to reside in the fact that you’ve clearly seen me saying that National Israel are ‘the children of God’ when I haven’t. Please…point back to the place where I did…I’ll be waiting.

Luke 18:19KJV
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you think that I did I did not write the quote in red

I'm fully aware you didnt write it Marty, and I didn't quote you either, I quoted Naomi25 in post #33 and it was a mysterious change in authorship?

I corrected my post #39 to show authorship as Naomi25 as seen in post #33

P.S your post #42 stating "Truth7t7 said:"?

This isnt my quote in your post #42, it's Naomi25 post #33 as seen below, correction requested

Quote Naomi25 post #33

"And Romans 11 also makes it fairly clear that we are NOT to count out the National, ‘broken off’ branches either. Which means any sort of anti-Semitism under the guise of “them not being the people of God any longer” is just bunk. We love a people until the final plan of God is known for them (ie…they are dead and buried)."

 

[Truth7t7]

The prophets wrote Old Testament prophecies to guide the Jews back to God and talked about the first advent which all people got wrong it was a spiritual kingdom not physical.

Most of the church still have it wrong today and talk about a physical kingdom for their end time views. Gods kingdom is spiritual not physical there is no need to go back to Old Testament time rituals to guide people to Jesus as Jesus already completed everything needed

Marty do you believe the (Eternal Kingdom) will be tangible with a tree of life, with actual fruit for food to eat, river of life, fish, fishermen, as seen below?

Ezekiel 47:7-12KJV
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

[Naomi25]

THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THAT GOING ON IN THIS THREAD, AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO READ.

GOD BLESS YOU, SISTER, AND ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU ON THE FORUM. HOPE YOU HAD A NICE CHRISTMAS!

I had a lovely Christmas, thank you! I hope you had the same!

 

[Truth7t7]

You miss out the clearly stated prophesies about the Millennium.
God's Plan for the redemption of mankind is in stages. We are now at the end of the Christian era and many dramatic things must happen before Jesus Returns and commences the final age to demonstrate the proper way to live under His divine rule.
THEN comes Eternity, Revelation 21 to 22

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Naomi25]

I am amil but you are mistaken the church started out before Israel in Genesis as they were saved in the same way that we are

I suppose we’d slightly disagree in terminology here, rather than fact. I’d see scripture calling those in the OT ‘saved’ by faith ‘the elect’. That would include folks before Abraham, like Enoch, who ‘walked with God’. Abraham himself, who’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. And, of course, those within “Israel” who truly placed their faith in God and were “kept”.
But I still think we only see what we label as ‘the Church’ emerging at Pentecost…specifically because it was the stage in God’s redemptive plan that began to include the New Covenant, which included the Gentiles.

 

[Marty fox]

I suppose we’d slightly disagree in terminology here, rather than fact. I’d see scripture calling those in the OT ‘saved’ by faith ‘the elect’. That would include folks before Abraham, like Enoch, who ‘walked with God’. Abraham himself, who’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. And, of course, those within “Israel” who truly placed their faith in God and were “kept”.
But I still think we only see what we label as ‘the Church’ emerging at Pentecost…specifically because it was the stage in God’s redemptive plan that began to include the New Covenant, which included the Gentiles.

They are saved by faith just like we are

John 14:16
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty do you believe the (Eternal Kingdom) will be tangible with a tree of life, with actual fruit for food to eat, river of life, fish, fishermen, as seen below?

Ezekiel 47:7-12KJV
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

No it’s not literal it speaks of revelation chapter 22 the new Jerusalem we the saved are the fish

 

[Truth7t7]

No it’s not literal it speaks of revelation chapter 22 the new Jerusalem we the saved are the fish

Thanks for the response, I disagree with your symbolic interpretation of Ezekiel 47:7-12 below

Ezekiel 47:7-12KJV
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

[Marty fox]

Thanks for the response, I disagree with your symbolic interpretation of Ezekiel 47:7-12 below

Ezekiel 47:7-12KJV
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

So are we going to need medicine?

 

[Keraz]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

We have argued this before. I believe there will be a literal thousand years when King Jesus will reign on the earth.
You don't and that's OK, as the truth will be revealed to you as it happens.

What I would like to know is why you must be so adamant in your rejection of the Millennium?