The Gospel of Reconciliation
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If you think that I am wrong then where is your evidence that what you believe has the mark of the Holy
Spirit in preserving His gospel that He gave once to the disciple/apostles. Does that truth have an historical evidence? If it does not then it can hardly the Truth once delivered to the saints, Jude 3. His Truth was not hanging in limbo for 2000 years until you arrived.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You need to be Born Again of imperishable seed...this day and age.
History is not applicable to being Born Of The Spirit.
Do you understand that Born Of The Spirit is a Living spiritual birth?
God says you must be Born Again then we are right / reconciled to God, via his Spirit.
I don’t think you understand the Living spiritual rebirth?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I have asked multiple times now. where do you come up with this stuff?
God has been drawing people to his salvation for thousands of years now
Well if you would read it for what it says. Paul taught that Jesus rose from the dead. He is telling those who do nto agree that there is a resurrection from the dead that if Christ did nto rise. Our belief is in vein..
I agree with paul.
I disagree with you that it proves the ressurection paid for our sins..
He defeated death
But before he did that, he had to defeat the penalty of sin..
You in error.. Plain and simple
again, what church do you go to? I am actually sick of asking
We are now only because Christ defeated death.
Again, only because Christ defeated death. If Christ had not defeated death, as created creature, both body and soul would cease to exist.
Where is this stated in scripture?
again only because Christ defeated death.
Yes, because Christ defeated death so that man could choose to have a relationship with God or reject Him. Those that reject Him will suffer the second death which is a spiritual death, loss of a relationship with God.
all your citations say the same thing, but all would be null and void if Christ did not defeat death.
Christ had a human nature, the one Adam was born with. One that had the capability to die, become mortal. Christ gave up His life, did not suffer corruption. Even if you argue that He was born with a mortal nature, that does njot make Him a sinner. We are all born mortals, but not born sinners. One has to sin before one can be called a sinner. Our mortal nature makes us have a propensity to sin.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
John 15
King James Version
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The atonement didn't defeat death. Death will be defeated when Jesus raises his followers from the dead.
On the contrary, those who are born again all share a new nature and anticipate glorification, which is total freedom from Sin and a life lived in complete righteousness.
God judged them both.
"The world" doesn't mean each and every human being. It means "each and every people group."
But death occured from Adam. We sin because we are mortal. I Cor 15:56.
He sure did, as He did with Adam, But it is Satan that had the power of death, Heb 2:14-16. God permits a lot by His Sovereignty. By permiting man to become mortal, God had plan to redeem man from that error by eventually sending Christ into this world, Incarnate by the Holy Spirit through the Virgin Mary.
Spiritual death, which is loss of a relationship with God.
That would be contradictory. Scripture says God crearted all things and He saw that it was good. Why would God create man mortal, being able to die. Man was created to be eternal. See Heb 2:14-16 again. Death is a parasite permitted to exist on this earth under the power of Satan.
it has been defeated but has not yet ended.. That will come on the last day when all will be raised to life.
Where is this stated in scripture?
Correct.
Never stated or implied. We were speaking only of His human nature which Christ in His divinity assumed from the Virgin Mary.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You spirit that will be born again, or not, is eternal.
If it's born again, you become "seated in Heavenly places" in Christ".......right now.
If your spirit is not born again, then at death, it will depart your body and end up in Hell.
There is the resurrection of the Damned, and that is not a bodily resurrection.
This one is Rev. 20:11
And then there is the resurrection of the Blood Bought Bride of Christ.
They, are the born again on EARTH, and they get the "new body".
If you are born again, yes.
Only the Born again are going to go with Christ.
Im not certain what Cult teaching you are representing... .is it JW's?
There is the "Judgement seat of Christ" and there is the "White Throne Judgement".
The first is for the Born again.
The 2nd is for the Christ rejector, who died "in your sins"., never born again.
Believers, born again, are in heaven right now.
"seated in heavenly places" in Christ... " as "One with God"..
All the BELIEVER is waiting for, is the NEW BODY.
It says the DEAD IN CHRIST> "The Bride of Christ".
And there is also the resurrection of the dead who are NOT In Christ" = John 3:36.... The Damned.
Jesus is : Salvation
Jesus is : Eternal Life
Jesus is : The Resurrection
Jesus is : The Truth
Jesus is : Redeemer
Jesus is : God's Grace
Jesus is : The Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah
It has been defeated, It was permitted to remain until He returns. All the dead will be raised, not just followers. I Cor 15:5354.
A new relationship, not a new physical nature. All believers still possess a mortal nature. You are correct that believes will also be glorified.
There will be no sin in hell also. They will not be able to have a relationship with God.
Yes, but He questioned Adam first.
It means precisely, exactly everything, not just humans, Col 1:20.
It is what scripture has meant from the beginning. I don't need to come up with anything. It has an historical record from the beginning, it is what was once delievered to the saint. Jude 3.
Correct, since creation.
I agree with Paul as well.
Without the resurrection the sacrifice for sin would have no power. How would it benefit God to have a relationship with man in this life, but that His creation is still subjected to death. That is why if all the dead are not raised to life, then Christ is not risen. Or the converse, if Christ is risen then all men will be raised to life. Paul sums that up in vs 21-22. and repeats it in vs 53-54.
Christ was crucified ONLY once. He accomplished both, defeat death and propitiate sin Heb 2:9, I John 2:2
You have not proved that. You just proved your view does not align with scripture as it has always been believed from the beginning.
You never asked to which Church I belong. It is the Orthodox Church.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I have answered all of these questions several times already throughout this thread. There is no reason why I should need to go in circles.
All of you clearly have views that do not align with scripture. Most if not all of you have a severe ignorance of the understanding of the Incarnation of Christ. I suggest you all do a deep study of the Incarnation.
OK, He was created. I'm glad you agree with the rest of the paragraph.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You're a JW?
You are obviously not a "Mainline Christian Denomination".. as even the worst of those, understands that unbelievers are not the Bride of Christ and will not be "resurrected" with the Born again, who ARE the Bride of Christ.
Where is this stated in scripture.
He died both, physical and spiritual. But spiritual in scripture is always in relation to our spiritual relationship with Christ. In scripture there are two deaths and two resurrection. They correspond to physical and spiritual. Spiritual death occured by Adam sinning and losing the relationship he had with God. That same death spiritual is what is regenerated through baptism which has always been called the spiritual resurrection "born again". It is also referred to in Rev 20:5. Rom 6 is called the baptism chapter and explains this principle of dying and rising with Christ through baptism.
Physical death was the consequence of Adam sin also but His nature was permitted to die and spread to all men by birth. It ends at the resurrection of the dead in the last day.
Christ did not die spiritually. He died physically. His soul decended into Hades where He preached and took captive those held in captivity by the devil,
The penalty for sin was death. He defeated death, defeated Satan who held the powor of death. His sacrifice proptitiated sin as well.
So quick to name names when your view does not align with another. If you must know I am an Orthodox Christian. Definitely not a denomination.
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