His death and resurrection made it possible for man to again have a relationship with God. Man believes, repents, is baptized and receives the Holy Spirit. There is two events depicted above. Two reconciliations. One Christ reconciling the world back to God. The other one who believes is reconciled back to God through faith. Both are described in II Cor 5: 18-20.
The Gospel of Reconciliation
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
It regenerates a spiritual relationship with God?
Then please as I’ve asked you quite a few times...what is regenerated a spiritual relationship with God mean?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Thousands of "water baptized" religious people went to Hell today.
So, water baptism, gets you wet.
Nothing more.
Its the Baptism in/with the Holy Spirit that is the new Birth.
Not water.
Water gets you wet.
Nothing more.
See, if water caused you to have the Holy Spirit, then everyone who took a Shower or Bath today, would be filled with the Spirit.
Are they?
No, and that is because the city water supply can't wash away your sins.. however, just like water baptism, it does get you wet, and if you add SOAP< your body enjoys it more.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
That is not how God says we are Born Again
To believe in God, you must be Born Of The Spirit and receive God given faith, which is a manifestation of the Spirit.
The other that reconciled us back to God is when he makes us Born Of The Spirit.
As his word says....without his Spirit we are none of his..a Born Again is Gods spiritual child.
Therefore we have the helper the Holy Spirit who teaches us Gods word in Spirit and truth....there is no relationship with God, without His Spirit...impossible.
Water does not save it gets you wet....we are baptised in the Spirit...the second spiritual birth...that is a Living supernatural spiritual birth that only God can do, via his Spirit.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You said it is based on his physical death
He said those words BEFORE he gave up the spirit. and died physically.
So why did he say it BEFORE if he needed to physically die for the penalty of sin?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So you believe we must do the work of water baptism to be born again?
Where did Jesus tell us this in John 3?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
We are born in the spirit when we look to the cross in faith and receive his Gift of salvation. Not before.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Correct. The death I referenced is the physical death or 1st death.
Agreed.
All men will be raised immortal and incorruptible. We will have a body that is the same as the Body of Christ had, still has, when He ascended to heaven. The only difference between those in heaven who will be glorified, and those in hell will be spiritual separated from God, They will be unable to have a relationship with God.
scripture differs from your statement. All the dead will rise from the grave, I Cor 15:53-54. All will have the same body, as Christ had, After all Christ assumed that body of mankind, not just those that believe.
He will come again with that same body as He had when He left and ascended into heaven.
Personal
That I have a personal, spiritual relationship with Him.
The Holy Sp;irit.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Everyone is "immortal" as the spirit in the body, is the real person, and this never dies.
Its the body that has the "corruption"< .
So, to be raised incorruptible, is to get the NEW Body.
The body of the unsaved Dead will not be raised when Jesus comes for His Bride to give them a New Body.
They are not His Bride, so, they wont be going UP.
Why? Because they are already in Hell.
However, Revelation 20:11 will find them, out of their body and Judged for never being born again.
No, only the CHRISTian gets the "new body".
Unbelievers, Christ rejector, never born again, are, .... John 3:36... and they dont get a new body.
They wont even have one at all, in Hell, then the Lake of Fire.
Christ on the Cross paid for the sin of every unbeliever, every lost person, YET = only those Who BELIEVE, have become the "Church" the "Bride of Christ" as "the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Unbelievers are none of this........none.
True
scripture says it does. Rom 5:12. Yes, God permitted the world as He did for Adam. Heb 2:14-16 clearly states that death is the power of Satan, not God.
Those who reject Christ and those who do not remain faithful will suffer the second death which is a spiritual death, loss of a relationship with God.
No man dies physically because of his sins. We became mortal through Adam. That is universal and will remain the same until Christ comes again.
It is not a matter of God existing eternally. He existed before He created this universe. The death of Adam, dust to dust, would be permanent death, no eternity, unless death could be overcome. Christ is the solution. He defeated death by His own death and resurrection with our human narture that He assumed.
Becasue Christ defeated death, His entire creation will be renewed in the last day.
Precisely. Christ permitted man to remain mortal, so that when man dies, our body is rid of sin. We all will be raised immortal and incoruptible, I Cor 15:53-54.
Different terminology but the same meaning. He raised the old man to life, creating the creature he was meant to be. It is why He assumed our human nature.
The atonement accomplished two things. Primary, defeated death, secondly propitiated, sacrifice for sin, Here are two texts that sum up the atonement,. Heb 2:9 and I John 2:2
I Cor 15: 53-54 says otherwise. Besides, Christ assumed a human narture that was common to all of mankind. There is ONLY one human nature. And if those who rejected Christ are not raised, then how can they be judged. Hell would not need to exist.
Rev 20:12-13. makes the same statement.
Sematics. Why did God first question Adam?
Why did God judge Adam instead of Eve?
I'll ask you that in eternity when you will be living in a new heaven and new earth.
Besides scripture makes a very positive statement that the world was saved. I John 4:14, John 4:42
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you teach that Christ had a fallen nature as you find with the SINNERS that Jesus came to Save, then you are teaching that Jesus was a sinner.
Not a good idea to do that on a public forum.
Believe it.
Christ will draw all men to Himself. He did that through the Incarnation, so that man could again have a relationship with God in this life, being born again regernates that relationship through baptism.
It actually does, but then why not give your interpretation as to why you think it does not say what it says.
Which would not be possible unless Christ defeated death and saved the world and mankind.
Never stated as such. You are not following the theological argument. We will not cease to exist ONLY because Christ defeated death. If He did not defeat death, we would cease to exist. That is what dust to dust means. We are created creatures.
That is precisely what I Cor 15:12-19 is stating. If the dead are not raised, your faith is futile, meaningless, vain, worthless.
scripture teaches it and the Church has believed, taught, practiced this Truth since Apostolic times. You need to do much more study of historical Christianity so you don't get misled by a lot of personal opinions as to what scripture means.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are a living eternal spirit that exists inside a dying body.
Your body will die (Hebrews 9:27) but your spirit never will.
IF you are born again then you will get a NEW BODY that is designed to HOUSE the Born Again Spirit.
If you are not born again.. if you are just water baptized and religious, or even less, then you will "die in your sins, and you will go to the place "prepared for the Devil and His Angels".
This is the 2nd Death.. = eternal damnation.
Find all of these who are in that 2nd Death, right here.. and notice carefully the words : WRATH /ABIDES... = plural, = forever.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”
English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”
Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
New King James Version
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
New American Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
NASB 1995
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
NASB 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Legacy Standard Bible
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Amplified Bible
He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”
Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
American Standard Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”
Contemporary English Version
Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever.
Your's may be opinion. But what I have posted is historical Truth. It is easy to follow through history. It was explained by Iraneeous, Titian, Theophilius. Athanasius, who also wrote a book on the Incarnation in the 3rd century. Then there have been several Ecumenical Councils that defended the Incarnation over the centuries against false teachings.
All of it has been the Truth of historical Christianity from the Beginning. The Holy Spirit has guarded His Truth through His Body, the Church which is the ground of Truth. I Tim 3:15
So, why do you not believe the Truth as it was given instead of relying on either other mens opinion including yours.
You are correct in that understanding correct doctrine will not save you. But if one does have a correct understanding of what they believe, how can you have a correct relationship with God. Based on scripture you have an incorrect understanding of being "born again".
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You do NOT need a Bible to been Born Of The “ Living “ Spirit..Born Again is a Living spiritual birth..which means what, ?
I’ve already explained that God draws us to Jesus, brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow, brings us to believe in Jesus, then Spirit gives birth to spirit..
Then we go and buy a Bible.and there I am, Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed?...where does his seed manifest in us?
Your truth is NOT Gods truth...history has got nothing to do with becoming Born Of God...zilch in fact..
The Bible is Gods “ written” word not his Living word.
You need his ‘ Living “ word to become Born Again...which is his Living Spirit...who testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children..he speaks to our spirit as he’s indwelling what?
Where does Gods Spirit live in us?
I think it is you, who has the incorrect understanding of what the Living spiritual rebirth actually is.
When we become a child of God, we then buy Gods word and the Holy Spirit will lead us through scripture..all in his timing..when I was Born Again that was all I knew, saved from eternal damnation.
The knowledge I have now, the Holy Spirit witnessed Gods truth to my spirit which was relayed to my mind.
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We are not immortal now, neither the body or the soul. When our bodies are reunited in the resurrection, then all men will become immortal and incorruptible.
Correct. Which is why Christ did not make us immortal in this life. Our mortal bodies will die once to rid our bodies of sin so that in the resurrection they can be raised immortal.
Our risen bodies will be the same as that of Christ when He ascended into heaven. Incorruptible means cannot die.
when Christ comes again, ALL the dead will be raised immortal and incorruptible. I Cor 15:53-54, Rev 20: 12-13. Believers will also be glorified.
I don't know where or how you arrive at this, But scripture says there is ONLY ONE resurrection of the dead. Everyone will stand in judgement in the last day.
Believers will also know they are in heaven. But these are not places. they are conditions of the heart. In eternity we will occupy a hew heaven and a new earth.
I don't know what out of their bodies mean, but they as human beings will be judged for not either accepting Christ or not remaining faithful.
scripture says all the dead will be raised. I believe what scripture says.
your missing the fact that Christ did more than just become a sacrifice for sin. He tasted death for all men, He was raised to life so that all men will be raised as well.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I know that is a common interpretation but that isn't what Paul meant to say. Paul is making a historical point. He is saying that sinful behavior started with Adam and continued throughout history. But sin was not imputed to mankind until the Law.
God created the world as it is. God subjected the world to futility. Romans 8:20
No, the second death is permanent loss of life.
No, Adam was mortal because God created him that way.
Death is the last enemy, which has not been defeated yet.
No, that is not true. Only those who belong to Jesus will be rid of sin eventually.
No. Being raised to new life is a future hope. Paul refers to this as our inheritance. What we have NOW is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
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