Mantis
Well-Known Member
We don’t know what the sign of our Lord will be. I assume it will be Jesus coming on the clouds to the mount of olives with ten thousands of his saints. I think everyone will see this event.
The Gospel not by the revelation of Jesus Christ but after the man of sin.
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@Mantis
Ephesians 1.15.21:
"Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."
Hi @VictoryinJesus ; Philippians 2 indeed mentions the cross in relation to the Person and work of Christ.
Not yet. Reset :
πλευρὰν Acts 12:7 angel slapped Peter on side / side of face / cheek.
Πλέω- set sail (sideways to the wind; sail alongside / side by side with the shoreline)
πλευρο-κοπέω/κόπτω- side-strike (military combat strike)
ἔνυξεν<νύσσω/νύττω- prick spur puncture slit (the throat of the blood sacrifice putting it ‘asleep’;
νυστωτάζω- sleep, to be drowsy, nod, drop the head, ‘neck-sleep’ (die).
ἡ νωδυνία- relief (from pain).
Concluded:
λόγχῃ αὐτοῦ τὴν πλευρὰν ἔνυξεν for no contextual reason must mean ‘with a spear pierced his SIDE”. Rather, Jesus was God’s Passover Lamb, and the passover lamb received a single fatal ‘wound’ through which its carotid artery and adjacent lymphatic vessel were drained to “kill” or “put it asleep” for the animal as painlessly as possible.
Now Jesus while alive felt pain as acutely as no human can because He was the Anointed God-Man Our Passover without blemish!
The passover sacrifice was inflicted only one wound to kill it, and when killed, received one penetration where there is least flesh above each heel, so as to hang it on, over the fire which, as soon as night began, would be roasted at first at the protruding portion of flesh from the neck for the people to eat; and afterwards the intact whole rest of the carcase, “that which remained”, would be “consumed with fire” to ashes.
Today’s Jews unashamedly and grossly mutilate “the Passover of the LORD”, of which, e.g., it is written clearly, no bone shall be broken, but they, arrantly, cut a shin for passover to feast with.
So the Jews started what the Roman Catholics improved on and increased with a lot more arrogant pride. They have God’s Lamb cut and battered and bruised and mutilated and besmirched and beaten down and spit upon with utter holy glee and festive partying.
Which they call worship and adoration.
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<<The Cross is a symbol of Christ's sacrificial atonement>>
As far as the Bible is concerned, the Old Testament prophesies ceremonies and laws and the Covenant as such, were the 'symbols' <<of Christ's sacrificial atonement for sins>>. Yes, the "tree"/"pole" (OT) or "cross" / "wood" (NT) also is a symbol today, but with no more intrinsic value as <<sacrificial atonement for the sins of all those that believe in HIM>> than the Old Testament prophesies ceremonies and laws and the Covenant as such has.
Like in the NT it is faith <in HIM> WHO IS our Atonement which <<is our living hope>>, so in the OT times it was faith <in HIM> WHO WAS our Atonement WHO was <<our -ALL OF US- living hope>>.
If today, after Christ, the Old Testament laws, prohibitions, ceremonies, even prophesies are made our Atonement or Living Hope, rightly so the very notion of it is condemnable.
But when the cross today is made the thing and place <<where Christ defeated Satan and released Satan's grip>> the CROSS is made a <<validation that Christ suffered and died>> - a <validation> that has rotted and is gone -- though apparently resurrected in every sarcofage in every RC cathedral, one of the twin die-hards, Mary and itself, the dead piece of wood prayed to EMPTY and bowed before as hanged the living Christ on it still, nodding approvingly to the worshipper, Well done son, don't worry, your prayers are valid, validated by me this cross you bow and kneel before. Don't worry, you're not transgressing the Second Commandment or any OT dead and heartless Law, it's OK, they're all invalidated no more to fear symbols, by me, your wonderful adorable loveable warm-hearted, soft and sympathetic, validating idol in their stead.
Do you look for <validation>?
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
<<The Cross is a symbol of Christ's sacrificial atonement>>
As far as the Bible is concerned, the Old Testament prophesies ceremonies and laws and the Covenant as such, were the 'symbols' <<of Christ's sacrificial atonement for sins>>. Yes, the "tree"/"pole" (OT) or "cross" / "wood" (NT) also is a symbol today, but with no more intrinsic value as <<sacrificial atonement for the sins of all those that believe in HIM>> than the Old Testament prophesies ceremonies and laws and the Covenant as such has.
Like in the NT it is faith <in HIM> WHO IS our Atonement which <<is our living hope>>, so in the OT times it was faith <in HIM> WHO WAS our Atonement WHO was <<our -ALL OF US- living hope>>.
If today, after Christ, the Old Testament laws, prohibitions, ceremonies, even prophesies are made our Atonement or Living Hope, rightly so the very notion of it is condemnable.
But when the cross today is made the thing and place <<where Christ defeated Satan and released Satan's grip>> the CROSS is made a <<validation that Christ suffered and died>> - a <validation> that has rotted and is gone -- though apparently resurrected in every sarcofage in every RC cathedral, one of the twin die-hards, Mary and itself, the dead piece of wood prayed to EMPTY and bowed before as hanged the living Christ on it still, nodding approvingly to the worshipper, Well done son, don't worry, your prayers are valid, validated by me this cross you bow and kneel before. Don't worry, you're not transgressing the Second Commandment or any OT dead and heartless Law, it's OK, they're all invalidated no more to fear symbols, by me, your wonderful adorable loveable warm-hearted, soft and sympathetic, validating idol in their stead.
LTJMP14
Active Member
Do you live in the wilderness, wearing camel hair and a leather belt, eating only locusts and wild honey? No. You live in luxury with all the high tech trappings of the world. Work out your own salvation.
" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18.
LTJMP14
Active Member
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18.
Reading this out loud just now raised up a passion that almost had me shouting it out! "over all things to the ekklesia."
Very thankful that you and me have the Gospel to read and learn from.
Yesterday saw something amazing in the book of Luke.
25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you may now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”
33 The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him.
Yesterday saw something amazing in the book of Luke.
25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you may now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”
33 The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him.
Get this right:
It is NOT the cross, but "the PREACHING of the cross" that "unto us who are saved is the Power of God, while unto them that perish, it is foolishness."
It -the PREACHING, the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ, "is the Power of God to save". The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Power of God in CHRISTS' IMMACULATE DIGNITY THROUGH SUFFERING AND DYING AND DEATH AND BURIAL AND RISING, MAINTAINED IN THE PERFECTION AND TRIUMPH OF HIS RESURRECTION THE THIRD DAY.
This WAS what the apostles PREACHED AND STILL PREACH IN SCRIPTURE; not an instrument or method for murder and superstition.
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LTJMP14
Active Member
The Cross of Christ is real, not a symbol, but a fact, and facts are stubborn things, and there is no getting around it. And the Cross of Christ is written in the Bible as with an iron pen and there is no getting rid of it.
"Christ The ALL in all fulfilling Fulness of God" is HE WHO is preached-- no cross of whatever, LEAST denominational, physical or spiritual constitution or encompass.
Denied; it's all in your mind mesmerised by a church with many replacements for the Lord preached for <real>. The <<Cross of Christ written in the Bible>> and Christ preached in the Bible were in harmony until the Roman Church erased the Second Commandment out of the Bible. Not until then were they able to corrupt the cross of the Gospel of Christ until unrecognisable -- or recognisable only as literally an abomination of desolation of the Roman Catholic church. So that, when looked at as portrayed in all the portraits and icons and marbles and burlesques and debaucheries and common falseness, it strikingly resembles her pathetic patrons and fathers and harlot daughters the one more grotesque in stature and composure than the next.
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LTJMP14
Active Member
The Roman church may have removed the Second Commandnent from its teaching, but that does negate the fact that the Cross is real and is where your sins and mine were punished. If you deny that, that puts you in the pot of apostates and heretics that preach another gospel, that is to say: Christ's death on the Cross, Christ's burial, and Christ's resurrection.
The Secnond Commandment is a prohibition of idol worshipping, worshipping something or someone other than YHVH. Why would YHVH command Moses to construct an Ark with heavenly angelic beings covering the mercy seat? Because worshipping YHVH in the Ark was not idol worship. Also, YHVH commanded Moses to create a serpent and affix it to a pole. Israelites did not worship the servant on the pole, but worshipped God for healing them when they looked upon the serpent. Hezekiah rightly destroyed the serpent when Israelite began to worship it.
Having a Cross in your home, or in your car, or in your house of worship, or on a chain around your neck is not idol worship and not prohibited by God's command as long as you are worshipping and praying to YHVH.
The Church first had to destroy the Second Commandment in the minds and hearts of men before it could remove it from Scripture. But the church could not do it, not until her teachings and influences had become evident on society and in the church. Her translation became the copy of the Church with her traditions and doctrines. From the earliest, the Roman Catholics used the Dynamic Equivalent Method for translation. By this way idolatry established and increased itself, while worship in obedience to the Scriptures decreased, and the Second Commandment eventually had disappeared.
By the time of the Reformation and the 17th century when king Henry at last authorised the KJV to be published, no or very few Christians could read English, what read Greek. And although the few who were learned and scholars and translators of true ability and honourability, ever since unequalled, they were unable not to be influenced by the Roman Catholic Church and its Latin Vulgate and myriads of accompanying traditions and myths—which historical fact left its inevitable footprint in the new Bible with which the Churched stepped forward into the new Reformation era to meet its challenges.
In John 13:34-37 was left a classic case of an unknown individual or group of monks who had all the time in the world and best of skills to introduce to the church their daydream nightmare picture of the crucified Jesus and soldier with spear.
Why even mention the spear? I ask, Why even mention the cross? Is it not “CHRIST crucified, who “DIED’ – can a cross die?; who was “BURIED” – is the cross ever shown, BURIED?; - who was “RAISED”? Ah! The cross is raised the empty, meaningless cross, yes indeed. So why not show the soldier with his inopportune ‘spear’?
But wait, Who protests? Not the worshipper of this image? Why ask the protester what its meaning supposedly is?
The protestant protests in order to show the FALSENESS and idolatrous nature of any icons and images and all iconoclasms – arrant foolishness the attempt to destroy faithful worship of Jesus Christ and the Commandments of God in SCRIPTURE.
Now what does SCRIPTURE say?
1. First the sort of weapon a guard of soldiers would carry all the time they were on duty. Would it be a sword, or a spear?
It won’t be a spear. A guard stood for hours on end in one position. They concentrated on the immediate location and task at hand, literally. A sword when not used, is put back into its sheath. A spear is thrown into a distant direction and place and is not fetched back.
A sword like Saul’s [ρομφαία incorrectly ‘spear’ in KJV], cut off heads within arm’s reach. A sword is held firm in hand all the time and when not used, is put back into its sheath. 1Samuel 17:51.
2. What kind of “wound” was inflicted in John 19:
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
It is clear the cross was not high or in any way out of reach of arm or sword, for a soldier standing next to it. John says the soldier pierced Jesus in the ‘side’.
Notice he does not say or suggest under or through the ribs as usually ASSUMED. That is a later RC indoctrinated misconception.
John wrote, - στρατιωτῶν λόγχῃ αὐτοῦ τὴν πλευρὰν ἔνυξεν. ”A guard inflicted a wound” – ‘ἔνυξεν’; “with a sword” – ‘λόγχῃ’; “to the side” - ‘τὴν πλευρὰν’.
Now the cross being straight within reach of arm or sword for the soldier standing next to Jesus’ cross “looking straight at or onto Him” -ἐπιβλέψονται, (“every eye shall see him” - ὄψεται αὐτὸν πᾶς ὀφθαλμὸς) – not ‘up to Him’, “he inflicted a wound with a sword to the side” of Jesus’:- “neck” / “throat”, not his ribs, cf., Ezekiel 21:29 “The glittering sword [Hchereb Gρομφαία] for the slaughter furbished to consume bring thee upon the necks of the slain.”
Isaiah 53: 4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded [chalal] for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Zachariah 12: 10 they shall look upon me whom they have pierced [daqar], and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,
Ezekiel 21:29 The glittering sword [Hchereb Gρομφαία ] for the slaughter furbished to consume bring thee upon the necks of the slain [chalal] return into sheath
Ρομφαία ρομφαία ἐσπασμένη εἰς σφάγια
Zechariah 12: they shall look upon [ἐπιβλέψονται] me whom they have pierced [H daqar oppress/humiliate LXX mocked]. Luke 1:48 regarded the low estate. 9:39 look upon (sick) son. James 2:3 there come in a (rich) man and a poor man and you look and say to the smart man, Sit here .. and you look and say to the poor man
John 19: 33 ἐπὶ δὲ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐλθόντες, ὡς εἶδον ἤδη αὐτὸν τεθνηκότα, οὐ κατέαξαν αὐτοῦ τὰ σκέλη,34 ἀλλ’ εἷς τῶν στρατιωτῶν λόγχῃ αὐτοῦ τὴν πλευρὰν ἔνυξεν, καὶ ἐξῆλθεν εὐθὺς αἷμα καὶ ὕδωρ.
Revelation 1:7
he cometh with clouds
ἔρχεται μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν,
every eye shall see him
ὄψεται αὐτὸν πᾶς ὀφθαλμὸς
and they also which pierced him:
καὶ οἵτινες αὐτὸν ἐξεκέντησαν,
shall wail because of him
κόψονται ἐπ’ αὐτὸν
Psalm 40
( v 6, Mine ears hast Thou OPENED [karah])
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