The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[WPM]

Get thee behind me satan. I already posted them for you. I gave you a huge list of scriptures!

I'm not doing it again. And at this point, yes I have opinion for you. The opinion that all you want to do is waste peoples time and cause confusion to newer christians. But hey look at the brght side, you got a wife and son to help you in your madness.

Good luck with your homework!

That is all you can do. You can list random Scriptures that have absolutely nothing to do with Pretrib (and which actually forbid your doctrine) and think that you have proved something. That is not the way it works. That just serves to expose the folly of your beliefs. You seem to have a problem with exegeting Scripture. You are scared of it! That is because it runs country to your extra-biblical taught beliefs.

Pretrib has been demolished on this thread. All of you guys are on the run. What are you scared of? What are you trying to hide? A secret rapture?

 

[WPM]

I posted a few of those for you and you ignored them.

Not so!!! Address them, quote them, exegete them (if you can). I will not hold my breath. Most of your claims have been solidly refuted. That is why you are scared to address them again.

 

[MA2444]

TBN/the Crouches would not answer any of my questions. Hal Lindsey would not reply. Chuck Smith asked me not to attend his church.

Can you see a pattern there? That doesnt surprise me because I have already seen how you would have talked to those pretrib fellows!

If somebody doesn't like you or somebody says your wrong, you might still be right.

But when everuone is that same to you...you must wonder if you are the problem!

 

[MA2444]

That is all you can do. You can list random Scriptures that have absolutely nothing to do with Pretrib (and which actually forbid your doctrine) and think that you have proved something. That is not the way it works. That just serves to expose the folly of your beliefs. You seem to have a problem with exegeting Scripture. You are scared of it! That is because it runs country to your extra-biblical taught beliefs.

So if that is you going into the "let's engage it!" Write it all over again! What's the point? You merely try to waste my time.

 

[Randy Kluth]

(2) The whole book of Revelation was written to local churches in Asia Minor 2,000 years ago for the expressed purpose of encouraging them in their hour of trial.

Very interesting! Thank you.

So that is why the word "church" does not have to be used throughout the book of Revelation, because Jesus isn't always addressing specific local churches? That would basically delegitimize the argument that "the Church must be gone because it is not mentioned after Rev 4?" The lack of the word "church" only indicates that local churches are not being addressed in that part of the vision--not that they have ceased to exist.

(3) Words, terms, titles and descriptions that are repeatedly used elsewhere in the New Testament to describe the Church of Jesus Christ are used regularly in Revelation 4 to 19 to describe the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Yes! A synonym is legitimate when the context is clear and certain. Those who "hold to the commandments of Jesus" would legitimately refer to the synonym "Christians."

(4) The apostate “churches” and their phony believers miss the rapture and enter this supposed 7 year tribulation, according to Pretrib – but the non-mention of the apostate “churches” must prove they are not on earth either. Where have they gone to?

(5) The word “Church” is not found in Revelation 4 in the Pretrib rapture

(6) The word “Church” is not found in the heavenly passages between Revelation 4 and 19. Using Pretrib logic, then they must not be in heaven either.

lol!

(7) The word “Church” is not found in Revelation 19 for the Pretrib 3rd Coming. So, they cannot be part of that supposed event.
(8) The word “Church” not found in Revelation 20 in the millennium. They cannot therefore be part of that period of time.
(9) The word ‘“Church” not found in Revelation 21 in the eternal state. They cannot therefore be part of the eternal state.
(10) The word ‘“Church” not found in many places throughout the New Testament.
(11) The word ‘“Church” is not found in all the popular Pretrib proof texts.
(12) What about the absence of the word “Jew” and “Hebrew” from Revelation 4-19, and the absence of the word “Israel” after Revelation 7.
(13) What about the non-mention of the popular Pretrib term ‘tribulation saints’ in Revelation 4-19?
(14) Whilst “the Church” has been caught up at the coming of Christ, even Pretrib teaches that local churches continue to exist after the rapture! Why are these churches not mentioned?
(15) Does the strange silence of the word “Christian” in Revelation 1-3 not prove Christians are not present or in view?

Brother, you're totally on a roll!! ROFL

 

[MA2444]

Not so!!! Address them, quote them, exegete them (if you can). I will not hold my breath. Most of your claims have been solidly refuted. That is why you are scared to address them again.

Haha! Nice try, wrong guy.

You have not solidly refuted anything in this thread! You havent even even tried to make a cohereant argument or show why we are wrong and you are right.

I aint scared and you have done nothing to shake my faith.

 

[WPM]

Very interesting! Thank you.

So that is why the word "church" does not have to be used throughout the book of Revelation, because Jesus isn't always addressing specific local churches? That would basically delegitimize the argument that "the Church must be gone because it is not mentioned after Rev 4?" The lack of the word "church" only indicates that local churches are not being addressed in that part of the vision--not that they have ceased to exist.

Yes! A synonym is legitimate when the context is clear and certain. Those who "hold to the commandments of Jesus" would legitimately refer to the synonym "Christians."





lol!

Brother, you're totally on a roll!! ROFL

Funny!!!

 

[MA2444]

Not so!!! Address them, quote them, exegete them (if you can). I will not hold my breath. Most of your claims have been solidly refuted. That is why you are scared to address them again.

Wont you at least show me where my context was wrong in Proverbs 25:2

Or did you miss that post? Ignored it you did. Exegete it for me Teacher!

 

[WPM]

Haha! Nice try, wrong guy.

You have solidly refuted anything in this thread! You havent even even tried to make a cohereant argument or show why we are wrong and you are right.

I aint scared and you have done nothing to shake my faith.

The war was won a long time ago. You put the white flag a while ago. All we are doing now is clearing up the debris.

You are reinforcing my whole thesis from the beginning: Pretrib has no proof-texts. That is why they are scared to engage.

Checkmate!

 

[MA2444]

Brother, you're totally on a roll!! ROFL

I'm sure daddy's proud of you son.

 

[MA2444]

The war was won a long time ago. You put the white flag a while ago. All we are doing now is clearing up the debris.

You are reinforcing my whole thesis from the beginning: Pretrib has no proof-texts. That is why they are scared to engage.

Checkmate!

Aint no checkmate. You cant even play chess.

Tell me where I was wrong about Proverbs 25:2 and maybe....but no promises.

 

[WPM]

Aint no checkmate. You cant even play chess.

Tell me where I was wrong about Proverbs 25:2 and maybe....but no promises.

Can you show us one single Scripture that describes (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ?

 

[MA2444]

Can you show us one single Scripture that describes (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ?

I could show you a lot of them.

I wont until you address Proverbs 25:2

That's where I start. Like or leave it. You either want to do this or you dont.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Can you see a pattern there? That doesnt surprise me because I have already seen how you would have talked to those pretrib fellows!

If somebody doesn't like you or somebody says your wrong, you might still be right.

But when everuone is that same to you...you must wonder if you are the problem!

I asked Walter Martin, famed Christian cult expert, to make public his Postrib views in a more forceful way. And within a short time he put out a recording documenting his Postrib position. You can access it free online.

I have emailed Robert Gundry, a major author of the Postrib position. He responded in a cordial way. I was just asking him if any more recent good works on Postrib have been done that he knows of.

And I've written Pat Robertson who holds to the Postrib position. I have gotten written responses from him, though on another subject.

I for a time subscribed to a newsletter from James McKeever, a noted Postrib author. Obviously, I'm not going to refer to those who I agree with!

I'm just throwing names out there not because I know them personally, but only to show you that I'm not running into a "brick wall" when I send Postrib messages to well-known figures. I'm nobody in myself. But inasmuch as I've heard from them I can talk about if they responded and how they responded, and how they conducted themselves in their response.

But I can show right here in this discussion how you responded, and it isn't good!

 

[WPM]

I could show you a lot of them.

I wont until you address Proverbs 25:2

That's where I start. Like or leave it. You either want to do this or you dont.

I know you will do anything to wiggle out of this. I'm not prepared to let you. So, let us look up Proverbs 25:2 to start off with, even though it is absolutely nothing to do with eschatology or the coming of the Lord. This shows the complete pettiness and impotence of your argument.

What has Proverbs 25:2 anything to do with our subject? What does it prove for Pretrib?

 

[MA2444]

But I can show right here in this discussion how you responded, and it isn't good!

Yeah but will you respond to my pretrib posts and address them? Not yet you havent. So that says something right there.

Say something that means something. Something pertinant to the topic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You seem to have no fear of God and only care about protecting a fallen doctrine developed by unbelieving men.

You seem to be oblivious to the actual history of Postrib and Pretrib. Trying doing a little research before spouting off your abject ignorance!

Pretrib is the novel, modern doctrine--not Postrib. Please cite me any history of the subject that shows the reverse, that Postrib is the new, modern doctrine? I expect crickets to play me a song here....

 

[MA2444]

I know you will do anything to wiggle out of this. I'm not prepared to let you. So, let us look up Proverbs 25:2 to start off with, even though it is absolutely nothing to do with eschatology or the coming of the Lord. This shows the complete pettiness and impotence of your argument.

What has Proverbs 25:2 anything to do with our subject? What does it prove for Pretrib?

It doesnt matter where I was going with it if you refuse to even try to see what I'm saying. So if you can't start there, then why should I go any further with you? You wont even begin.

You kept wanting a single verse that explains everything about the pretrib rapture and I told you that it was a mystery that we, as kings and priests are to search out the matter.

And you refuse to respond to Proverbs 25:2

And you want me to post more scriptures when you refuse to respond to repeated requests to unpack that one verse for me? Uhh, good luck with that. You just hoping that I'll give you more to talk down about and refuse to even read as ammo for you talk your brand of nonsense about? Ha! Fat chance Teacher!

 

[WPM]

It doesnt matter where I was going with it if you refuse to even try to see what I'm saying. So if you can't start there, then why should I go any further with you? You wont even begin.

You kept wanting a single verse that explains everything about the pretrib rapture and I told you that it was a mystery that we, as kings and priests are to search out the matter.

And you refuse to respond to Proverbs 25:2

And you want me to post more scriptures when you refuse to respond to repeated requests to unpack that one verse for me? Uhh, good luck with that. You just hoping that I'll give you more to talk down about and refuse to even read as ammo for you talk your brand of nonsense about? Ha! Fat chance Teacher!

I told you to exegete Proverbs 25:2. What has this to do with the subject? Start your case. The burden of proof is with you. You have got the floor. Here is your opportunity to prove your case. I am all eyes and ears.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No. We explain it to you, but we cant understand it for you. You have to do that...and you cant.

The Bereans were commended for not just taking Paul's word for anything--they looked up the Scriptures to see what they said on the subject. We are *not* to just accept your word for anything. Rather, we look for what the *Scriptures explicitly teach!* You are bad guides, trying to get us to believe *you* and not the *Scriptures!*