tailgator
Well-Known Member
According to John,he saw souls on earth when Gog comes and surrounds them and fire comes down from heaven are devours Gog.
The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I'm not changing it at all. Jesus said that before His death and resurrection. So, it was true as of the time He said it that no one but Him had ever gone into heaven. He did NOT say that no one ever would go into heaven besides Him even after that. Why are you acting as if He did?
Where are the souls that John saw in Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
He will come back and gather his elect unto himself where he will be.
I think scripture says he is coming to the Mt of olives in Jerusalem.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I know the souls in revelation 20:4 are in Jerusalem in the land of Israel.
That is where they are surrounded by Gog and all his bands and when fire comes down out of heaven and devours Gog upon the mountains of Israel.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He did not see the souls of the dead there. You are just making things up at this point. I'm not talking about Revelation 20:7-9, I'm talking about Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 20:4. where were the souls located that John saw in those verses?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The souls of dead people are in Jerusalem in the land of Israel? Where are you getting this nonsense from? Paul said to be absent from the body (physically dead) is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:6-8). So, where is the Lord located? In heaven , right? Well, that's where those who are absent from the body, but present with the Lord are, too. Very simple. You can't even understand the most simple things in scripture, so what can you understand? I think probably nothing.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
John saw the souls of them in revelation 20 being surrounded by Gog and the nation in Jerusalem.Thag is when fire comes down out of heaven and devours Gog who had surrounded the resurected saints.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Read it.
They are on the breadth of the earth when Gog surrounds them .They are not in the heavens where the fire comes down from.
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
They are on the breadth of the earth when Gog surrounds them.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Did you actually read Revelation 20? Nowhere does it say that. The souls he saw are DEAD. How can they be surrounded in Jerusalem? I've never seen anything more nonsensical in my life. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Revelation 20
King James Version
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
King James Version
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. It's not the souls of the dead, which is what John saw, that are surrounded. Good grief. Are you serious? Why would dead people be surrounded? LOL! This is unbelievable. The saints on earth and the souls of the dead are not the same. The saints are alive, not dead. LOL. Wow.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
But, he's trying to tell us that the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw are on earth and being surrounded. LOL. That can't be taken seriously. That's clearly not what it says. Where else would the souls of the dead he saw be except in heaven, right? Certainly not on earth. Dead people's souls on earth? That's nonsense.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
tailgator
Well-Known Member
No.It does not say they are dead.It says they lived.
Did you even read revelation 20 at all?
"
"and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
It plainly says they lived and reigned with Christ .
Now you argue they are dead.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He said he saw their souls, not their bodies. And they were physically dead. You don't believe that the souls of people can be alive and conscious, but Revelation 6:9-11 disproves that. Where again did you say that the souls John saw under the altar in Rev 6:9-11 are located? Somehow you conclude that they can't be in heaven just because they're under the altar? So, where did he see them then?
Are you able to read what others here say or not? Can you understand even one single thing about what other people believe? I'm saying the souls John saw are physically dead, but their souls are alive. I've made it clear that's what I believe, but you're still acting like you don't know what I believe.
But, you believe in the false doctrine of soul sleep so you just don't get it. I'm not wasting any more time on this.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying .
Revelation says it You don't take revelation seriously though.
"They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."
Revelation 20
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
No,he said he saw them living.
They are not dead as you claim.
"They came to life "
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This is what is called the resurection.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Says the guy who doesn't acknowledge that the souls of the dead martyrs that John saw were in heaven and the guy who believes in a doctrine that mostly only cults believe in (soul sleep). What a joke and waste of time. If you want to insist on believing in the false doctrine of soul sleep, I can't stop you, but it's the main reason why you don't have a clue of what Revelation is about.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
"They came to life
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Says the guy who is actually backing up what he says with scripture.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
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