tailgator
Well-Known Member
How about I quote him
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Sounds very straight forward .
The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.
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John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Sounds very straight forward .
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Sounds like they are under something.Not above it.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Are you being purposely dense? Where did He say there that not only had no one but Him gone into heaven at that point, but no one else ever would?
Where do you think the souls of the dead John saw were? In some fantasy land somewhere in outer space?
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
In heaven, after death, they are consciously asking God how long will be until his final wrath? Hello!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. This shows your utter lack of discernment. Why can't they be under the altar in heaven? Hello? Where else could they be but heaven? Some imaginary place out there?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
His word has never changed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I know of one who came from heaven and that is the only one who ascended to heaven
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
I will post the witnesses that saw him ascend into heaven for you
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Now you post the witnesses who saw multitudes ascend into heaven on that day or any other day.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. He didn't say no one but Him would ever go into heaven. He just said no one had gone into heaven except Him up to that point. But, go ahead and read things into it that aren't there since that's what people do when they make scripture say what they want it to say.
Where did you say the souls John saw (Rev 6:9-11, Rev 20:4) were located again? Mars? Jupiter? Some other galaxy far, far away?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, it's not like that. John said he saw souls, not blood. The soul is a part of a human being.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
He said no one has gone into heaven except for him.that came from heaven.
He didn't say anything about a point.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Unto the coming of the Lord.
It doesn't say anything about you ascending to heaven.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
When did He say that? Today? No, it was long ago. Where did He say that no one would ever go into heaven except Him? He didn't. But, keep changing the text to make it say what you want it to say if you feel the need to be dishonest with scripture.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Nice job of completely missing the point. The point was to show you that the soul is part of a human being, so that's what John saw and he saw them in heaven. No one is saying they are there bodily. But, their souls are there. John saw them. You are denying the obvious here.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Your the only wanting to change the text.I like it as it is.In fact ,I'm the one who keeps quoting it.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
John 14:2-3
King James Version
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
What did Jesus mean?
King James Version
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
What did Jesus mean?
It is the Word of God that destroys your error. It forbids your false claims.
Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
The passage continues, “Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:19-31).
The just are clearly “comforted” here.
The lost are clearly “tormented” here.
But it talking about the man in hell sending someone to his brothers who were still physically alive and warning them about the flames. This can't be after the coming of Christ.
Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Acts 7:59-60 records, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.
2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."
‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’
‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’
Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”
Death was a promotion for Paul!!!
1 Thessalonians 5:10 tells us that Christ “died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
The writer to the Hebrews censures such a foolish earthly notion of focusing upon the physical Jerusalem below, in Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, saying, “For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest …but ye are come unto mount sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”
Revelation
Revelation 14:13 agrees: “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
In Revelation 4:4, 10, 5:8, 14, 11:6, 19:4, we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they? Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth. Who are they?
Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”
And continues, “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, “I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”
Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is unquestionably speaking (1) of heaven and also (2) of a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.
The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) says, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
Here we clearly have a heavenly scene, and a heavenly scene in this present period of time. It reveals the risen saints in glory awaiting the consummation of all things.
Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, andover his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb, saying, great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”
Again, this relates to the intra-Advent period. Also, there is no doubt that this scene is in heaven and that “victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” evidently meant martyrdom for those in view. However, absent from the body for the believer assuredly means present with the Lord in His heavenly abode.
Revelation 7:9-14 adds further light on the matter, saying, “I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
The souls are therefore identified here as (1) the redeemed and are clearly located (2) in heaven.
Verse 15 continues, “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”
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