The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.

[David in NJ]

Tell me who here is claiming that the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ has already occurred.

i have seen it in a couple of posts but not sure if it is on this thread or another

Neither you or @rwb or @WPM ever spoke that falsehood = which is great.

 

[rwb]

Never forget that you and i can banter together without being overly sensitive whereby we lose fellowship.

We are Brethren and our FATHER wants us to Sharpen each other in His Word.

i am not above you and neither are you above me = we sit at the Feet of our LORD Jesus Christ = together

Exactly! I agree! Just remember that "we" doesn't have an "I" in it! Rather than assuming some of us need to study more to arrive at your doctrine, try focusing on what WE have said, and how WE have confirmed what we believe through the written Word of God.

 

[WPM]

i have seen it in a couple of posts but not sure if it is on this thread or another

Neither you or @rwb or @WPM ever spoke that falsehood = which is great.

I have seen no one here promote that apart from the heretical Full Preterists. Amils reject that heresy!

 

[tailgator]

LOL. Says the guy who disregards Paul's end times teachings.


John 5:28-29 says all people in the graves without distinction.


I don't ignore anything. You have no idea of what you're talking about. The dead in Christ will all be resurrected at the same time and not just those who were beheaded and Paul has that as the second resurrection in order, not the first (1 Cor 15:22-23). Christ's was the first. But, that's written in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, which I know you disregard because you don't think Paul knew what he was talking about.

Paul didn't say anything about a second resurrection.
He said people such as yourself who say the resurection is past already as you have been teaching should be shunned for your profane and vain babblings.




2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




You act as though you don't believe pauls words about your false resurrection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All one has to do is compare Revelation 20:4 with the following passages, like such, then think outside the box some, and if it wasn't already crystal clear what is meant in Revelation 20:4, it should be now. Unless of course, one brings doctrinal bias into it and places their doctrines above Scripture rather than equals Scripture.

No one brings doctrinal bias into this more than you do, so that is very ironic for you to say that.

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive(zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive(zao) ;

That word "zao" does not mean to be made alive or to be resurrected. Look at how it's used in other verses. Always in relation to being alive or living one's life. That is how it is used in these verses as well. It's not talking about the act of Christ being raised from the dead there. It's talking about Jesus being alive at that time John was writing after previoulsy having been dead. Tell me why the word "anazao" was not used in relation to those who have part in the first resurrection instead like it was in relation to the rest of the dead? The word "anazao" does mean to be made alive or resurrected, but the word "zao" is not, no matter how much you try to make it so.

All you have to offer is trying to change the meanings of words to make them say what you want them to say and nothing else. You look at Revelation 20:4, but ignore Revelation 20:6 which indicates that having part in the first resurrection is a requirement for avoiding the second death. You know that being bodily resurrected is not what is required to avoid the second death, so why do you interpret Revelation 20:6 that way? If that was required then those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord would not avoid the second death. Spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection, which scripture says is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20) is what is required to avoid the second death. You do not allow other scripture to help you interpret Revelation 20 and instead you change much scripture to fit your false, biased interpretation of Revelation 20.

 

[WPM]

Paul didn't say anything about a second resurrection.
He said people such as yourself who say the resurection is past already as you have been teaching should be shunned for your profane and vain babblings.




2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




You act as though you don't believe pauls words about your false resurrection.

What "false resurrection"?

 

[tailgator]

I allow scripture to tell me what the first resurrection is, but you'd rather change the rest of scripture in favor of your false interpretation of Revelation 20:5-6 instead of letting other scripture help you interpret it.


I laugh at your warnings as they mean less than nothing to me. I know the truth and premil is not it.

So if you believe you have taken part in the first resurection of them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus ,and who did not worship the beast or it's image ,mor receive it's mark in order to buy and sell,then tell us who it was it that cut off your head.

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly! Christ is the first resurrection that mankind MUST have part in before they physically die to overcome the second death! You get it, so why do you continue to argue the first resurrection of Rev 20 is a physical resurrection of the martyred saints? It is not, and you know WHO the "first resurrection" is, and you know how we must have part in Christ's resurrection is to be born again. That is to have part in Christ, the "first resurrection" SPIRITUALLY, by birth from above. It is NOT a bodily resurrection of the martyred saints, because as you've been repeatedly shown no man, except Christ Jesus shall be bodily resurrected again until the hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer.

Good Morning Brother,

You get it, so why do you continue to argue the first resurrection of Rev 20 is a physical resurrection of the martyred saints?

Because of this: "Unless a man is Born-Again he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God

Because of this: "Christ is the first resurrection that mankind MUST have part in before they physically die to overcome the second death!"

Because of this: you know WHO the "first resurrection" is,

Because of this: That is to have part in Christ, the "first resurrection" SPIRITUALLY, by birth from above.

It is NOT a bodily resurrection of the martyred saints,

OOPS = VERY BIG OOPS

Return to His words of Promise: "IAM the Resurrection and the Life, though a man die(physically) yet will he LIVE(Resurrection).

Always remind yourself of this: Matthew 22:23-33

The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 24saying: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 25Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27Last of all the woman died also. 28Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.”

29Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

What specific resurrection is JESUS speaking of here:
A.) Spiritual
B.) Physical from the Graves

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus said I am the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus also said I am the way, the truth, and the Life.

All the above identify who the Son of God Jesus Christ truly is, and it also reveals His relationship with the Father. Which I will get to in a bit

But notice Jesus did not say I am the first resurrection. The term the first resurrection is only used in Revelation 20:5-6. But Amils are trying to conflate the words of Jesus as being The Resurrection with the definition of the first resurrection as described in Revelation 20:5-6.

So what is the difference? When Jesus Christ said I am The Resurrection and The Life Jesus was revealing to us who He was, which is in Truth The very Word of God made flesh.

It is God’s Word that gives Life. It is God’s Word that is the way, the truth, and the Life. And it is God’s Word that is The Resurrection.

So both the first resurrection and the second resurrection happen by God’s Word calling them from death to life, which is why Jesus said He is The Resurrection and The Life.

But Amils don’t understand this, which why they call Jesus’ resurrection the first resurrection. But before Jesus was resurrected dead people were raised from the dead even before Jesus came, and even while he was on earth, and also after Jesus ascended into heaven.

And all those who were raised from physical death were all raised by the Word of God, which is The Resurrection and The Life.

So knowing the difference between The Resurrection and the Life and the first resurrection of the dead in Christ will keep you being led astray by the false doctrines of men.

Peace and God bless

Good. Just simply though, the 1st Resurrection occurs at His Second Coming (expected withing a couple years).
Then those who die _ in Christ _ after the 1st Rsurrection, will be resurrected after the Millennial Kingdom.

People will be born, live long lives and die during the MK, so they will also have to believe in Christ. Obviously with an entire world of believers, worship, love and devotion to Christ will endure for most of that time. But then Satan is released towards the end of that Era. Even though they were brought up with Christian parents and Christ ruled _ in the flesh _ on earth _ in Jerusalem (where they were supposed to visit and worship Him annually), they still rebel and desire to go their own ways - go figure. It is not as if the world will be anything like this world with all the sin, false religions, corruption, lusts and pagan cultures. It will be a Paradise reborn without the enemy prowling around and luring you at every turn with all the temptations at every turn. Still it is in their nature, having been passed down from Adam, to rebel and reject regardless of an almost perfect world. They must make a decision for Christ and be born again as we all have. So obviously all the born again Christians entering into the MK are sealed. It is their children who will be subject.

 

[David in NJ]

So if you believe you have taken part in the first resurection of them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus ,and who did not worship the beast or it's image ,mor receive it's mark in order to buy and sell,then tell us who it was that beheaded you.

Good Morning

EXCELLENT point of emphasis

 

[rwb]

lol my Brother and Good Morning
We are conversing, and we both have some jibes that the Holy Spirit can turn into GOOD Vibes.............Bro

Honestly David, I get your jibes, but do not appreciate them! Truly it makes you appear to think yourself "holier than thou", and that dear friend is very annoying, and unnecessary, because WPM, SI, TribulationSigns, as well as myself have studied and continue to study the doctrines of Amil that you despise for MANY, MANY years now.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then believe it as it is written…

I do. The only other verse besides in Revelation 20 containing the Greek words "protos" (first) and "anastasis" (resurrection) together is this one:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

You want there to be more than one first resurrection, but there isn't. Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection and we spiritually have part in it when we're saved.

Paul taught that Christ's resurrection was first in order and next in order are those who are Christ's at His second coming. Your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts this.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Also, Jesus said that a singular hour is coming when all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected. You also contradict that with your interpretation of Revelation 20.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Instead of accepting that the singular HOUR is coming when all in the graves are resurrected, you believe there are two HOURS coming when the dead will be resurrected, which contradicts what Jesus taught.

 

[David in NJ]

Good. Just simply though, the 1st Resurrection occurs at His Second Coming (expected withing a couple years).
Then those who die _ in Christ _ after the 1st Rsurrection, will be resurrected after the Millennial Kingdom.

People will be born, live long lives and die during the MK, so they will also have to believe in Christ. Obviously with an entire world of believers, worship, love and devotion to Christ will endure for most of that time. But then Satan is released towards the end of that Era. Even though they were brought up with Christian parents and Christ ruled _ in the flesh _ on earth _ in Jerusalem (where they were supposed to visit and worship Him annually), they still rebel and desire to go their own ways - go figure. It is not as if the world will be anything like this world with all the sin, false religions, corruption, lusts and pagan cultures. It will be a Paradise reborn without the enemy prowling around and luring you at every turn with all the temptations at every turn. Still it is in their nature, having been passed down from Adam, to rebel and reject regardless of an almost perfect world. They must make a decision for Christ and be born again as we all have. So obviously all the born again Christians entering into the MK are sealed. It is their children who will be subject.

Then those who die _ in Christ _ after the 1st Rsurrection, will be resurrected after the Millennial Kingdom.

Profound statement but where is the Profound Scripture that SPECIFICALLY says this???

and Good Morning

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Who does he think he is?

It’s my duty to do so…

Ezekiel 3:18
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wickedway, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 3:19
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 33:8
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wickedman shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Acts 20:29-31

King James Version

​

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Eternal life is in Christ. Those who are in Christ will enter the Kingdom of Christ. Only those who are born of the Spirit will inherit the Kingdom of Christ.

We're already in the kingdom of Christ. That's what you premils don't get even though it's explicitly taught in scripture.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

 

[tailgator]

What "false resurrection"?

The one he says is his resurection.


2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[WPM]

The one he says is his resurection.


2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Answer the question, and stop avoiding.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It’s my duty to do so…

Ezekiel 3:18
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wickedway, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 3:19
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 33:8
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wickedman shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Acts 20:29-31​

​

King James Version​

​

​

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

So, you're calling us wicked for merely having a different interpretation of Revelation 20 than you do. How nice. Would you like to show us where it is taught in scripture that salvation is dependent on whether or not someone believes in amil or premil? I must have missed that. May God have mercy on your soul for falsely condemning us.

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[WPM]

It’s my duty to do so…

Ezekiel 3:18
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wickedway, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 3:19
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 33:8
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wickedman shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Acts 20:29-31​

​

King James Version​

​

​

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

You are full of yourself. Who takes you serious?

 

[tailgator]

Answer the question, and stop avoiding.

He claims he was resurected.

I'm waiting for him to tell us who beheaded him before he was resurected.
Who cut off his head?