The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.

[David in NJ]

Honestly David, I get your jibes, but do not appreciate them! Truly it makes you appear to think yourself "holier than thou", and that dear friend is very annoying, and unnecessary, because WPM, SI, TribulationSigns, as well as myself have studied and continue to study the doctrines of Amil that you despise for MANY, MANY years now.

Really ???

Knowing Scripture does not make me "holier than thou", especially since it is His GIFT that was/is from His Grace
"By GRACE lest any man should boast"

Take your focus away from me and redirect it to the LORD and His words.

the doctrines of Amil that you despise for MANY, MANY years now.

There are three things that i "despise":
a.) modern day pharisees
b.) those who blatantly lie against the Holy Scriptures = SEE Proverbs 30:5-6
c.) and those who promote Techtonic Plate Syndrome as if it is a glorious thing to have

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The one he says is his resurection.


2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

That passage is talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ. No one here is saying that has already happened. Stop wasting time with your straw man arguments. You have to wonder how you can possibly discern scripture when you can't even discern what others believe.

 

[WPM]

He claims he was resurected.

I'm waiting for him to tell us who beheaded him before he was resurected.

Was he not talking about spiritual resurrection which is a requirement for the physical resurrection of the just in the future?

 

[rwb]

Because I do not receive the testimony of men, the Testimony of God is greater. We who are of Christ’s flock do not hear or follow a strangers voice.

If only that were true! There are none so blind as the man who REFUSES to see! Premillennialism cannot be confirmed through the Scripture. And those who try to use Scripture to confirm Premill force contradictions and confusion into the Word of God. It is for that reason that I KNOW you are following the doctrines of man and are not allowing the Word of God without contradiction & confusion to inform your beliefs.

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly! I agree! Just remember that "we" doesn't have an "I" in it! Rather than assuming some of us need to study more to arrive at your doctrine, try focusing on what WE have said, and how WE have confirmed what we believe through the written Word of God.

Rather than assuming some of us need to study more to arrive at your doctrine

i do not have any doctrines !!!

i follow that which JESUS and the Apostles has spoken/taught/warned/encouraged/blessed = Their Doctrines

 

[David in NJ]

@rwb @WPM @Spiritual Israelite @tailgator


Prayer request = easy one

i am taking my boat out to go fishing for whatever will bite = Walleye, Trout, Bass or other

Will you ask for a blessing on my behalf on this little adventure

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are doing the SAME thing as the pre-fibbers = refusing to acknowledge the Scriptures which expose amil error.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I do. The only other verse besides in Revelation 20 containing the Greek words "protos" (first) and "anastasis" (resurrection) together is this one:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

I see you diverted from what is written in the context of scripture concerning the first resurrection as is defined in Rev. 20:5-6 and ran to an unrelated verse out of context.

That is how magicians trick people, they try to divert your attention away in order to perform their trickery. Don’t look there, look over here! Lol. It’s called sleight of hand, and smoke and mirrors tactics used to trick or deceive people.

But God’s elect will not be deceived.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

i have seen it in a couple of posts but not sure if it is on this thread or another

Neither you or @rwb or @WPM ever spoke that falsehood = which is great.

You said "some" are doing that. Is that really true or not? Looks like maybe it's one person and not "some" who are doing that?

 

[David in NJ]

View attachment 51183

SEE - i can laugh with you on this and NOT get offended

The only amil error i see is the 1,000 years as only spiritual thereby rejecting the actual from Genesis and Revelation

SHALOM my Brother

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see you diverted from what is written in the context of scripture concerning the first resurrection as is defined in Rev. 20:5-6 and ran to an unrelated verse out of context.

LOL. I'm using scripture to interpret scripture. You say one verse about the first resurrection is not related to another? That's not a good way to interpret scripture, buddy. There isn't more than one first resurrection in scripture. You foolishly deny that the following verse refers to the first resurrection form the dead, which was Christ's resurrection.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Having part in the first resurrection, then, must relate to having part in Christ's resurrection if we accept what scripture teaches, which is that His resurrection was the first resurrection from the dead.

That is how magicians trick people, they try to divert your attention away in order to perform their trickery. Don’t look there, look over here! Lol. It’s called sleight of hand, and smoke and mirrors tactics used to trick or deceive people.

LOL. Total nonsense. It's good practice to interpret scripture with scripture so that you don't cause contradictions in scripture. That's something you have clearly shown that you know nothing about.

But God’s elect will not be deceived.

That's right. That's why I'm not deceived by false premil doctrine. You obviously could not care less if your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts other scripture or not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

SEE - i can laugh with you on this and NOT get offended

Good for you. But, you should stop comparing amils to pretribs. You know pretribs don't even attempt to exegete scripture and make coherent arguments using scirpture like amils do. If you want us to remain friendly, then you will stop comparing amils to pretribs.

The only amil error i see is the 1,000 years as only spiritual thereby rejecting the actual from Genesis and Revelation

And how are we doing that exactly? Please back up your claims with scripture.

How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How about this one:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

People will be born, live long lives and die during the MK, so they will also have to believe in Christ.

I do believe there will be converts added to the Kingdom during the thousand years because of what it says below…

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

To me the fact that the book of Life is even mentioned there is because some of those converts to Christ were added to the book of life during the thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are full of yourself. Who takes you serious?

I sure don't. You can't possibly understand the truth of this matter while being as arrogant as he is. He's too prideful to see that, though.

 

[rwb]

Because of this: "Unless a man is Born-Again he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God

Because of this: "Christ is the first resurrection that mankind MUST have part in before they physically die to overcome the second death!"

Because of this: you know WHO the "first resurrection" is,

Because of this: That is to have part in Christ, the "first resurrection" SPIRITUALLY, by birth from above.

Good morning to you also,

You believe being born again is a "physical resurrection" and not the spiritual resurrection saints have when we are born again through the Spirit of Christ? "We who were dead in trespasses and sins"! Does that mean we were physically dead and not spiritually dead instead?

OOPS = VERY BIG OOPS

Return to His words of Promise: "IAM the Resurrection and the Life, though a man die(physically) yet will he LIVE(Resurrection).

You appear to believe Christ was speaking these things to physical corpses, telling them they must be born again? In what world does that thought make any sense whatsoever??? The thing you continue to fight against is how Christ came in physical human form with the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God to be built through His saints sent out into all the world with the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. You're still waiting for the Kingdom of God to come to this earth in physical form because you think God is more concerned with physical man, then He is with spiritual man???

There you go again being so pious, as if you alone is coming with His words of promise. While at the same time forcing contradiction and confusion into the very words of promise you say apparently only you have???

The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 24saying: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 25Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27Last of all the woman died also. 28Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.”

29Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

What specific resurrection is JESUS speaking of here:
A.) Spiritual
B.) Physical from the Graves

In this passage why would Christ say "in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels of God in heaven" if He was speaking of the bodily resurrection that shall come in the hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer? Also, if Christ is speaking of the bodily resurrection to come and not the "first resurrection" which He is, why does God speak of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob not of the dead, but of the living? Remember He has already said they shall be as "the angels of God in heaven" i.e. spirit beings, not physical beings as flesh & blood are. And those having part in His resurrection shall not marry another because we are the espoused bride of Christ, our eternal Husband!

Remember this question comes BEFORE Christ became the first resurrection of the dead to immortal life.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So if you believe you have taken part in the first resurection of them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus ,and who did not worship the beast or it's image ,mor receive it's mark in order to buy and sell,then tell us who it was it that cut off your head.

Are you pre-trib? It appears that you believe the first resurrection is the bodily resurrection only of those who are beheaded? So, in your view, when are the dead in Christ resurrected that Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and 1 Thess 4:14-17? Do you have that occurring before the first resurrection?

 

[David in NJ]

Good for you. But, you should stop comparing amils to pretribs. You know pretribs don't even attempt to exegete scripture and make coherent arguments using scirpture like amils do. If you want us to remain friendly, then you will stop comparing amils to pretribs.


And how are we doing that exactly? Please back up your claims with scripture.

How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How about this one:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

@WPM brought up a great Truth = Corroborative Evidence in the Scriptures

The KEY to properly applying this method of examination is to make sure one does not mis-match scripture..

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are only Two Groups listed here by the LORD:
Group A = the Resurrection of Life
Group B = the resurrection unto damnation

Revelation chapter 20 'corroborates' with John 5:28

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@WPM brought up a great Truth = Corroborative Evidence in the Scriptures

The KEY to properly applying this method of examination is to make sure one does not mis-match scripture..

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are only Two Groups listed here by the LORD:
Group A = the Resurrection of Life
Group B = the resurrection unto damnation

Revelation chapter 20 'corroborates' with John 5:28

How many hours did Jesus say are coming when "all that are in the graves" will be resurrected?

And how do you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[David in NJ]

Good morning to you also,

You believe being born again is a "physical resurrection" and not the spiritual resurrection saints have when we are born again through the Spirit of Christ? "We who were dead in trespasses and sins"! Does that mean we were physically dead and not spiritually dead instead?




You appear to believe Christ was speaking these things to physical corpses, telling them they must be born again? In what world does that thought make any sense whatsoever??? The thing you continue to fight against is how Christ came in physical human form with the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God to be built through His saints sent out into all the world with the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. You're still waiting for the Kingdom of God to come to this earth in physical form because you think God is more concerned with physical man, then He is with spiritual man???

There you go again being so pious, as if you alone is coming with His words of promise. While at the same time forcing contradiction and confusion into the very words of promise you say apparently only you have???


In this passage why would Christ say "in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels of God in heaven" if He was speaking of the bodily resurrection that shall come in the hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer? Also, if Christ is speaking of the bodily resurrection to come and not the "first resurrection" which He is, why does God speak of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob not of the dead, but of the living? Remember He has already said they shall be as "the angels of God in heaven" i.e. spirit beings, not physical beings as flesh & blood are. And those having part in His resurrection shall not marry another because we are the espoused bride of Christ, our eternal Husband!

Remember this question comes BEFORE Christ became the first resurrection of the dead to immortal life.

You believe being born again is a "physical resurrection" and not the spiritual resurrection saints have when we are born again through the Spirit of Christ? "

Of course NOT!!!

"We who were dead in trespasses and sins"! Does that mean we were physically dead and not spiritually dead instead?

Let's see what the Word says
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

There are Two Deaths and it is important to know which one the Author is speaking of in the given context of passage.
Sometimes BOTH deaths are inferred

EXAMPLE = Which death is Paul MOST focused on of in this passage: 1 Cor 15:12-19
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.
For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

 

[David in NJ]

How many hours did Jesus say are coming when "all that are in the graves" will be resurrected?

And how do you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

SAME as the Apostle John stated: 1 John 2:18-19
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.