The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[marks]

The point @marks is making, I think is that you, @Spiritual Israelite, apply personal attacks, degrading comments, and mis-representing what others say - in your disagreeing methods . Which tends to degrade a disagreement discussion into an exchange of name calling and accusations.

I'd sooner say, it degrades the one who acts that way. The discussion is toast at that point anyway. That some lack manners, and some lack standards of behavior, and some lack bounderies, doesn't mean I'm going to ignore mine.

When someone continues in their choice to act such ways, well, I always remember Dr. Laura, on her radio show, said, When someone shows you who they are . . . believe them. This fellow tells me he's going to keep acting this way, so, what's the point to continue? Hoping for some better level of communication with someone who is avowed to not allow that? I'm better off mopping the floor!

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'd sooner say, it degrades the one who acts that way. The discussion is toast at that point anyway. That some lack manners, and some lack standards of behavior, and some lack bounderies, doesn't mean I'm going to ignore mine.

When someone continues in their choice to act such ways, well, I always remember Dr. Laura, on her radio show, said, When someone shows you who they are . . . believe them. This fellow tells me he's going to keep acting this way, so, what's the point to continue? Hoping for some better level of communication with someone who is avowed to not allow that? I'm better off mopping the floor!

Much love!

LOL. Just keeping patting yourself on the back for your imaginary exemplary behavior. Make sure to keep saying things like this to people who ask you sincere questions:

Surely you must know! I can't believe you don't know what I'm talking about. Let's not be coy.

That was such a nice thing to say in response to a sincere question. What a nice guy that marks is. Always respectful like that. LOL. Delusion reigns supreme.

 

[Douggg]

I'd sooner say, it degrades the one who acts that way. The discussion is toast at that point anyway. That some lack manners, and some lack standards of behavior, and some lack bounderies, doesn't mean I'm going to ignore mine.

When someone continues in their choice to act such ways, well, I always remember Dr. Laura, on her radio show, said, When someone shows you who they are . . . believe them. This fellow tells me he's going to keep acting this way, so, what's the point to continue? Hoping for some better level of communication with someone who is avowed to not allow that? I'm better off mopping the floor!

Much love!

I think when having a disagreement discussion over a topic or issue, that taking the diplomacy approach is better than taking the provocation approach.

I agree totally with what you say about not ignoring my own boundaries (speaking about myself).

 

[rwb]

This is how I see it. Being baptized into Christ is a real thing, and having been immersed into Him, where He is, there we are.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I believe we have a real spiritual existence in the celetial realm, where we are together with each other and with Jesus. This is one reason why division is so contrary to Christian brotherhood. And when I see people who identify as Christians, yet act in ways so as to divide, and push away, instead of drawing together, I notice that contradiction, and I tend to believe what people do over their claims about them self.

We are unified in the Spirit (if we are), so where is the unification between us? If we are all Christians? But then we can be mixed bags also, so there is a place for mercy, and patience, and compassion, also earmarks of the true Christian.

2 Corinthians 5:1-3 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

This verse even goes so far as to say we now have a celestial body, and we are awaiting that celestial body to "clothe upon" our terrestrial body, taking on its properties of immortality and incorruptibility.

To directly address your comment, I think the fact of the matter is that our new creation spirit is not bound in space/time, and is united with Christ, as He is in the heavens, then so are we.

Much love!

It is through Christ's Spirit within believers that we body of flesh & bone are spiritually with Christ. Being spiritually with Christ after our flesh dies cannot take us from Christ SPIRITUALLY! It only separates us from Christ physically. That's why Paul writes that when natural man of faith physically dies, our living spirit, through the Spirit of Christ within ascends to heaven a spiritual body to wait for the last trumpet to sound and we will be physically resurrected from the grave and reunited with our eternal spirit that returns with Christ. Just as on earth faithful saints are physically the living body of Christ, so too after death faithful saints shall continue to be the living spiritual body of Christ in heaven. Because He has given us this promise, that where He is we shall be also. And not even physical death shall be able to separate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[marks]

Being spiritually with Christ after our flesh dies cannot take us from Christ SPIRITUALLY! It only separates us from Christ physically.

Yes and amen!! Death isn't death for the Christian, just a change of location. Or more like, our awareness is captivated by our physical senses while we are in these bodies. But when we die, and our no long bound by our physical senses, there will be no more impediment, and we will be aware of our heavenly surrounding, and our Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV
6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

"Our walk is by faith, not by sight", that is, the point isn't that we see Jesus here, now, it's not about what we see. This is how Paul explains that being at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.

He's not saying that Jesus isn't with us, he knows better than that. We are absent from the Lord, because we aren't walking by sight. So we don't see Him. We walk by faith, believing what we do not see. But when we are absent from these bodies, we will experience our presence with Jesus.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Is it? Can you show me any examples?

Hebrews seems to me to be saying they are different, and that the word of God divides them apart.

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Much love!

And Mary said, My soul (psyche) magnifies the Lord, and my spirit (pneuma) has rejoiced in God my Savior. -- Luke 1:46-47

And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit (pneuma). -- Acts 7:59

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit (pneuma) in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you -- Romans 1:9

Beloved, do not believe every spirit (pneuma), but try the spirits (pneuma) to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. -- 1 John 4:1

And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit (pneuma) and soul (psyche) and body (soma) be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

The vast majority of verses in the New Testament where the word pneuma (spirit) appears are talking about the Holy Spirit / Spirit of God/Christ. So it's a little confusing for me why the word pneuma is used in the above way at times such as in the above verses. There may be more verses like the above but I will need to do more searching.

I'm hoping you will understand why the word pneuma "seems to" be being used interchangeably with the word psyche. Maybe it isn't but I'm just misunderstanding the verses.​

 

[Zao is life]

What if we look at it like this...

God created man (Adam) by first forming a body from the dust of the earth. And then breathing life into that body, such that Adam became a living soul - i.e. having a body and inner spirit (i.e. soul).

Then man (Adam) sinned, and became subject to the penalty of sin - eternal death to the body and soul.

Then Jesus came to redeem man from the penalty of sin.

redemption of the soul - saved, born again spiritually, by the Holy Spirit residing in one's soul.
redemption of the body - by resurrection, or translation (if alive at the time) - a new everlasting, eternal body.

I don't have the answers Doug, but my question is,

Did we have a soul before we were redeemed, i.e before we were born of the Spirit? If so, then it means that when we were born from our mothers into this world, we were a human being comprised of body and soul.

But we were dying because the eternal Spirit of God had not yet breathed eternal life into us (we were not yet born of His Spirit).

And the above leads me to more questions:

Is what is born of the eternal spirit, eternal?

And, since the eternal Spirit breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul, what happened to his spirit when he died (when his body died)?

Did his spirit go back to the God who gave it, and his soul go to hades, and his body go to the grave?, as in Ecclesiastes 12:7?:

"..Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it." -- Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Anyway, the above are questions I ask myself, without having the answers.

But as far as redemption of the body and soul is concerned, I don't believe the two can be separated into two separate redemptions if we were comprised of body and soul when we were born,

because one person is not two (or three?) separate people, but one person - and death is the enemy of God.

The eternal Spirit of Christ dwells in all those who believe in Him and remain in Him, and will give life to our mortal bodies.

The soul is our innermost part, and our spirit is what is born of the eternal Spirit of God.

* We could not have been "born with a dead spirit" because that means we had a spirit that was alive before it died, and was alive but died even before we were born.

God breathed eternal life into Adam and Adam became a living soul - and it was after God formed him from the dust for the ground.

So after we are born of our mothers into the world, the eternal Spirit of Christ breathed eternal life into us we became living souls - souls with everlasting life.

Copy @marks

 

[rwb]

Did we have a soul before we were redeemed, i.e before we were born of the Spirit? If so, then it means that when we were born from our mothers into this world, we were a human being comprised of body and soul.

Mankind, in fact every living breathing creature IS a soul as long as they are alive. When the human that has been born again physically dies, their body, like all living breathing creatures becomes a corpse. And the spirit or breath of life of the man who has been born again returns to God in heaven, ALIVE through the Holy Spirit within. Man is composed of physical body given a breath of life (spirit) and he/she is called a living soul. If that which gives our body the breath of life has within them the Spirit of Christ, their breath of life (spirit) does not cease to have life after our physical body becomes a corpse.

 

[Zao is life]

I think that those having the Holy Spirit presence within their soul, will never die, albeit the natural bodies of men has being appointed to die.

I think when it speaks of the spirit of life, it is referring to a created beings like humans, animals, fish, and the like - when those created beings die, it is the spirit of life of that enabled that created being to have life, returning to God - Who gives all life.

Would you agree with that ?

Very interesting statement, Doug. I'm glad I saw it.

 

[Zao is life]

Mankind, in fact every living breathing creature IS a soul as long as they are alive. When the human that has been born again physically dies, their body, like all living breathing creatures becomes a corpse. And the spirit or breath of life of the man who has been born again returns to God in heaven, ALIVE through the Holy Spirit within. Man is composed of physical body given a breath of life (spirit) and he/she is called a living soul. If that which gives our body the breath of life has within them the Spirit of Christ, their breath of life (spirit) does not cease to have life after our physical body becomes a corpse.

@Douggg made a very interesting statement:

"I think when it speaks of the spirit of life, it is referring to a created beings like humans, animals, fish, and the like - when those created beings die, it is the spirit of life of that enabled that created being to have life, returning to God - Who gives all life".

IMO each individual has a soul. Humans are born into the world as "body and soul". The soul that has been given everlasting life through God breathing eternal life into it (him/her), will go to be with God when the body dies.

 

[rwb]

@Douggg made a very interesting statement:

"I think when it speaks of the spirit of life, it is referring to a created beings like humans, animals, fish, and the like - when those created beings die, it is the spirit of life of that enabled that created being to have life, returning to God - Who gives all life".

IMO each individual has a soul. Humans are born into the world as "body and soul". The soul that has been given everlasting life through God breathing eternal life into it (him/her), will go to be with God when the body dies.

Through the Spirit (breath of life) God breathed life into the man, Adam and he became a "living soul." Mankind cannot be living souls without breath of life (natural spirit) and a physical body of flesh. Since Christ sent His Spirit to be within man/woman of faith, their breath of life (spirit) is alive forever through Christ's Spirit in us. The Spirit sent from Christ will always be within believers until the redemption of our flesh (purchased possession) from the grave.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In one sense, I agree! When our body dies, our breath of life (spirit) returns to God alive (living soul) through the power of the Holy Spirit within. In heaven our spirit that returns to God is not like the spirit (breath of life) that returns to God in unbelief. In heaven faithful saints are still "living souls" or spiritually alive (the spiritual body of Christ), and those spirits in unbelief after physical death are said to be in darkness and silence, knowing nothing at all until the hour coming and they (the spiritually dead) are called to stand before the GWTJ to give account to God according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

 

[marks]

And Mary said, My soul (psyche) magnifies the Lord, and my spirit (pneuma) has rejoiced in God my Savior. -- Luke 1:46-47

And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit (pneuma). -- Acts 7:59

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit (pneuma) in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you -- Romans 1:9

Beloved, do not believe every spirit (pneuma), but try the spirits (pneuma) to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. -- 1 John 4:1

And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit (pneuma) and soul (psyche) and body (soma) be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

The vast majority of verses in the New Testament where the word pneuma (spirit) appears are talking about the Holy Spirit / Spirit of God/Christ. So it's a little confusing for me why the word pneuma is used in the above way at times such as in the above verses. There may be more verses like the above but I will need to do more searching.

I'm hoping you will understand why the word pneuma "seems to" be being used interchangeably with the word psyche. Maybe it isn't but I'm just misunderstanding the verses.​

Have you studied every occurance in the Bible of both of these words? That's what I do to determine how they are used.

The one you are showing here that seems to me to use these words as synonyms is,

And Mary said, My soul (psyche) magnifies the Lord, and my spirit (pneuma) has rejoiced in God my Savior. -- Luke 1:46-47

I use E-Sword, which has a concordance that allows me to look by Strong's number, so it takes in the different forms of the words to makes sure I catch them all.

To my understanding, psuche, referring to a man, speaks of the intellect, and emotions, personality, memory, like that, while pneuma, referring to the man in the new testament sense, speaks of that part of a man that comes alive when God comes in.

Much love!

 

[Douggg]

I don't have the answers Doug, but my question is,

Did we have a soul before we were redeemed, i.e before we were born of the Spirit? If so, then it means that when we were born from our mothers into this world, we were a human being comprised of body and soul.

Yes, I think we are born with a soul (within our current physical body).

But we were dying because the eternal Spirit of God had not yet breathed eternal life into us (we were not yet born of His Spirit)

I would say our soul, our inner person, the essence of our being, is destined to die eternally - because of sin.

i.e. the soul that sinneth shall die, Ezekiel 18:4.

There is a verse regarding when the disciples first received the Holy Spirit....

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Did his spirit go back to the God who gave it, and his soul go to hades, and his body go to the grave?, as in Ecclesiastes 12:7?:

"..Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it." -- Ecclesiastes 12:7.

I think that particular verse is referring to the spirit of life, that enables all created living beings, returning to God - which the person, as a result, their physical body dies. I think that is universally true - no matter what religion, or not, a person is. Jews (Judaism) who I have talked with call the spirit of life - "the life force".

That spirit of life, universal present with all living beings - is therefore not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit resides only in persons who believe upon Jesus, His death and resurrection, for salvation of their soul.

Is what is born of the eternal spirit, eternal?

And, since the eternal Spirit breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul, what happened to his spirit when he died (when his body died)?

I think when you replace "God" with "the eternal Spirit" in the creation of Adam episode, it complicates matters.

What happened to Adam's spirit when he died bodily? imo, Adam's spirit went to the place of the dead - sometimes called hell. Which from certain verses spoken by Jesus (Luke 16:19-31) hell is comprised of two areas, separated by an impassable gulf (perhaps the bottomless pit?).

Which leads me to address the passage you cited about when Jesus descended into hell to preach to "spirits". What or who, exactly are those spirits? I think that it is implying the souls of men who had died up to that point in time, down through the ages. Captive there.

And what Jesus preached to those souls (apparently souls have ghost-like bodies in the spiritual realm) was the gospel of salvation. Which them who received and embraced it, were taken to heaven when Jesus Himself went to heaven.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ever since then, when a Christian physically dies, the Christian's soul goes to heaven, to be in the presence of the Lord.

And someday -

1Thesslaonians4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

for the rapture/resurrection event. The redemption of our bodies.

 

[marks]

I think that particular verse is referring to the spirit of life, that enables all created living beings, returning to God - which the person, as a result, their physical body dies. I think that is universally true - no matter what religion, or not, a person is. Jews (Judaism) who I have talked with call the spirit of life - "the life force".

One of my favorite hymns, "Immortal Invisible God Only Wise",

"To all life Thou givest, to both great and small,
In all live Thou livest the true life of all!
We blossom and flourish as leaves on a tree,
Then wither and perish but nought changest Thee!"

Be blessed!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ever since then, when a Christian physically dies, the Christian's soul goes to heaven, to be in the presence of the Lord.

Great post! On this part, I'd say that we are in heaven now with Christ in our spirit, and when we die here, we begin to perceive there.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Have you studied every occurance in the Bible of both of these words? That's what I do to determine how they are used.

Yes. To shorten this post, I've given examples here in this page of places where the New Testament uses the word psyche in reference to:

1. The mind
2. The soul
3. The life

of individuals:

Body [sōma], mind / soul [psychḗ], and spirit [pneûma]

M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

The one you are showing here that seems to me to use these words as synonyms is,

And Mary said, My soul (psyche) magnifies the Lord, and my spirit (pneuma) has rejoiced in God my Savior. -- Luke 1:46-47

You could be right about the above being synonyms. I never thought about that

I don't understand or know enough to know if there is a scriptural difference between the human soul and the human spirit in the case of the one who has been born of the eternal Spirit of God.

See these verses and the words used:

Luke 8:52-55
"He said, Do not weep; she has not died, but sleeps. And they ridiculed, knowing that she was dead. And He put them all out. And He took her by the hand and called, saying, Little girl, arise! And her spirit [pneûma] came again, and she arose immediately. And He commanded that food be given her to eat."

1 Corinthians 6:17-20 (Netfree Version)
"The one united with the Lord is one spirit [pneûma] with him. Flee sexual immorality! Every sin a person commits is outside of the body - but the immoral person sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit [hágios pneûma] who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price.

Therefore glorify God in your body [sōma] and in your spirit [pneûma], which are God's."

Paul mentions our spirits in the verse below:

"The Spirit [pneûma] Himself bears witness with our [egṓ] spirit [pneûma] that we are the children of God. " -- Romans 8:16

Strongs Greek 01473 ἐγώ egṓ, eg-o'
a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic).

Paul mentioned his spirit in the verse below:

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my [emós] spirit [pneûma]" -- 1 Corinthians 5:4

"My [emós] spirit":

Strongs Greek 01699 ἐμός emós, em-os':
my:--of me, mine (own), my.

Acts 7:59
"And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my [egṓ] spirit [pneuma]."

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit [pneuma] of man [ánthrōpos] which is in him? even so the things of God [O theós] knows no man, but the Spirit [pneuma] of God [O theós].

1 Thessalonians 5:23
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole body [soma], mind | soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma] be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus".

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

So there is the above, but the word psyche is only used in reference to the mind, the soul, and the life of individuals - suggesting a distinction between soul and spirit.​

​

I use E-Sword, which has a concordance that allows me to look by Strong's number, so it takes in the different forms of the words to makes sure I catch them all.

To my understanding, psuche, referring to a man, speaks of the intellect, and emotions, personality, memory, like that, while pneuma, referring to the man in the new testament sense, speaks of that part of a man that comes alive when God comes in.

Much love!

E-Sword is Windows based, and I don't use Windows in my PC.

I use two different Linux-based Bible search programs +

Interlinear Bible: Greek, Hebrew, Transliterated, English, Strong's

biblehub.com

as well as other internet based Bible study tools.

BibleTime allows you to search for all instances of a Hebrew word or Greek word - but I don't know how accurate it is in finding each and every instance of the same word (although it seems pretty good).

Checking all the verses using the same Hebrew or Greek word can help get the sense of the meaning of the word, because of the sense in which it is used each time - but it's not necessarily always the case, because some words actually have different meanings or are used in more than one sense.

You could be right about what you said about the synonyms. I find it confusing and have not come to a conclusion about the difference between the soul and the spirit. I find what Doug said about the Spirit of Life very interesting.

All I know for sure is that there is no spiritual "resurrection" (from the dead) mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is such a concept used figuratively either, because Christ's soul went to hades and He preached by the Spirit of God, who quickened His mortal body.

What many Christians seem to not understand is that Christ did not only become a man when He took on a human body. He became mankind ("the last Adam"), the Son of man who represents all those who are IN HIM and He IN THEM.

Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood! (Revelation 22:15), who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Christ Jesus is associated with mankind, and mankind with Him:

"The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. The first man, Adam, became a living person; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." -- 1 Corinthians 15:47, 45; 20-22.

"For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." -- 2 Corinthians 5:21.

"If we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him," -- Romans 6:8.

Christ died for our sins. His body was dead. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit, and He rose again bodily from the dead.

" I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live." -- John 11:25

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes. To shorten this post, I've given examples here in this page of places where the New Testament uses the word psyche in reference to:

1. The mind
2. The soul
3. The life

of individuals:

Body [sōma], mind / soul [psychḗ], and spirit [pneûma]

M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

You could be right about the above being synonyms. I never thought about that

I don't understand or know enough to know if there is a scriptural difference between the human soul and the human spirit in the case of the one who has been born of the eternal Spirit of God.

See these verses and the words used:

Luke 8:52-55
"He said, Do not weep; she has not died, but sleeps. And they ridiculed, knowing that she was dead. And He put them all out. And He took her by the hand and called, saying, Little girl, arise! And her spirit [pneûma] came again, and she arose immediately. And He commanded that food be given her to eat."

1 Corinthians 6:17-20 (Netfree Version)
"The one united with the Lord is one spirit [pneûma] with him. Flee sexual immorality! Every sin a person commits is outside of the body - but the immoral person sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit [hágios pneûma] who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price.

Therefore glorify God in your body [sōma] and in your spirit [pneûma], which are God's."

Paul mentions our spirits in the verse below:

"The Spirit [pneûma] Himself bears witness with our [egṓ] spirit [pneûma] that we are the children of God. " -- Romans 8:16

Strongs Greek 01473 ἐγώ egṓ, eg-o'
a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic).

Paul mentioned his spirit in the verse below:

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my [emós] spirit [pneûma]" -- 1 Corinthians 5:4

"My [emós] spirit":

Strongs Greek 01699 ἐμός emós, em-os':
my:--of me, mine (own), my.

Acts 7:59
"And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my [egṓ] spirit [pneuma]."

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit [pneuma] of man [ánthrōpos] which is in him? even so the things of God [O theós] knows no man, but the Spirit [pneuma] of God [O theós].

1 Thessalonians 5:23
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole body [soma], mind | soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma] be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus".

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

So there is the above, but the word psyche is only used in reference to the mind, the soul, and the life of individuals - suggesting a distinction between soul and spirit.​

E-Sword is Windows based, and I don't use Windows in my PC.

I use two different Linux-based Bible search programs +

Interlinear Bible: Greek, Hebrew, Transliterated, English, Strong's

biblehub.com

as well as other internet based Bible study tools.

BibleTime allows you to search for all instances of a Hebrew word or Greek word - but I don't know how accurate it is in finding each and every instance of the same word (although it seems pretty good).

Checking all the verses using the same Hebrew or Greek word can help get the sense of the meaning of the word, because of the sense in which it is used each time - but it's not necessarily always the case, because some words actually have different meanings or are used in more than one sense.

You could be right about what you said about the synonyms. I find it confusing and have not come to a conclusion about the difference between the soul and the spirit. I find what Doug said about the Spirit of Life very interesting.

All I know for sure is that there is no spiritual "resurrection" (from the dead) mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is such a concept used figuratively either, because Christ's soul went to hades and He preached by the Spirit of God, who quickened His mortal body.

What many Christians seem to not understand is that Christ did not only become a man when He took on a human body. He became mankind ("the last Adam"), the Son of man who represents all those who are IN HIM and He IN THEM.

Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood! (Revelation 22:15), who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Christ Jesus is associated with mankind, and mankind with Him:

"The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. The first man, Adam, became a living person; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." -- 1 Corinthians 15:47, 45; 20-22.

"For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." -- 2 Corinthians 5:21.

"If we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him," -- Romans 6:8.

Christ died for our sins. His body was dead. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit, and He rose again bodily from the dead.

" I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live." -- John 11:25

While, in my view, I do not call going from being spiritually dead in our sins to spiritually alive in Christ a resurrection (we are BORN of the Spirit, not resurrected of the Spirit), it seems like you deny that scripture teaches that when we're saved we go from being spiritually dead in sins to being quickened (made spiritually alive) in Christ. Is that true? If so, how do you interpret this passage:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jesus clearly taught that those who believe in Him and "on him that sent me" have "passed from death unto life". It says the hour "now is" when that happens. It's a current reality that when someone puts their faith in Him they pass from death to life. What does that mean? Well, passages like Ephesians 2:4-6 tell us. It means we go from being spiritually dead in our sins to spiritually alive in Christ, which Paul relates directly to being saved by grace.

 

[Zao is life]

I would say our soul, our inner person, the essence of our being, is destined to die eternally - because of sin.

i.e. the soul that sinneth shall die, Ezekiel 18:4.

I disagree with the above because Jesus died for our sins.

What many Christians seem to not understand is that Christ did not only become a man when He took on a human body. He became mankind ("the last Adam"), the Son of man who represents all those who are IN HIM and He IN THEM.

Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral, and the murderers, and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood! (Revelation 22:15), who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Christ Jesus is associated with mankind, and mankind with Him:

"The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. The first man, Adam, became a living person; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." -- 1 Corinthians 15:47, 45; 20-22.

"For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." -- 2 Corinthians 5:21.

There is a verse regarding when the disciples first received the Holy Spirit....

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

I think that particular verse is referring to the spirit of life, that enables all created living beings, returning to God - which the person, as a result, their physical body dies.

Although I believe you are possibly correct about what you say about the Spirit of life, I believe the Holy Spirit is of the Spirit - and Revelation talks about seven spirits of God. I think the Spirit of life is not the same as the Holy Spirit given to those who are IN CHRIST.

That spirit of life, universal present with all living beings - is therefore not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit resides only in persons who believe upon Jesus, His death and resurrection, for salvation of their soul.

OK you said it yourself :) So we agree.

I think when you replace "God" with "the eternal Spirit" in the creation of Adam episode, it complicates matters..

You may have a point. But Adam became a soul with eternal life when God breathed eternal life into him.

What happened to Adam's spirit when he died bodily? imo, Adam's spirit went to the place of the dead - sometimes called hell. Which from certain verses spoken by Jesus (Luke 16:19-31) hell is comprised of two areas, separated by an impassable gulf (perhaps the bottomless pit?).

Yes, there is no word in the Greek that translates as "hell". There is gehenna, which Jesus used as a symbol of everlasting destruction of the soul, and hades, which is the place of the dead, and tartaroo, which is a prison in the lowest depths of hades where certain angels are bound. The KJV translators took all three words and translated them each time as "hell" - maybe because all three are characterized by separation from God.

The impassable gulf I believe was between Abraham's bosom and the rest of hades. The bottomless pit according to strong's on the word tartaroo is a prison in the lowest depths of hades

Well we must be reading the same Bible and I should be reading the rest of what you said about it before responding :)

Which leads me to address the passage you cited about when Jesus descended into hell to preach to "spirits". What or who, exactly are those spirits? I think that it is implying the souls of men who had died up to that point in time, down through the ages. Captive there.

Well the record actually identifies those spirts as pre-flood, so can't be, IMO.

And what Jesus preached to those souls (apparently souls have ghost-like bodies in the spiritual realm) was the gospel of salvation..

I agree about what Jesus preached to them. I just don't agree about them having bodies. To me spirit is spirit (same for soul) and when we die our spirits/souls will be limbless because our bodies will be in the grave till the resurrection.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

 

[Zao is life]

It seems like you deny that scripture teaches that when we're saved we go from being spiritually dead in sins to being quickened (made spiritually alive) in Christ.

You asked that question in such a way as to imply or make the (false) assumption that what you say about what scripture teaches regarding being quickened, is true, though your assertions are false.

Quickening (being made alive) is not associated with spirit or with spiritual birth. Quickening is associated with death, hence it is associated with the Spirit of God making that which was dead - which had died - alive again.

Christ's Spirit did not die. His dead body was quickened by the Spirit - death could not hold him - and He rose again from the dead bodily.

The body is dead because of sin and unless we are born of the Spirit we will never have any spiritual life. We never had any spiritual life to begin with.

You make it clear by the implication of what you say that you believe that you were once alive spiritually, but then you sinned, and then you died, spiritually - because you say you were spiritually dead in sin (though you had never been spiritually alive in the first place before you were born of the Spirit).

If you were spiritually dead in sin, when did your spirit die? Before you were born in the world ? Or after you were born into the world?

How could you have been spiritually dead before you were born of God?

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".

Christ died for our sins. His body was dead. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit, and He rose again bodily from the dead.

" I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live." -- John 11:25

Quickening is not associated with spirit. It's associated with the body. Christ's Spirit did not die. His body was quickened by the Spirit - death could not hold him - and He rose again from the dead bodily.

Being quickened by the Spirit is not the same as being born of the Spirit, just because the latter needs to take place before the former can take place.

The word synegeírō (raised with Christ) is referring to the resurrection of the body, not of the human spirit.

You do not seem to understand that when Christ took on a human body, He did not only become a man: He became mankind ("the last Adam") and hence the son of man, representing all humans who are in Him through His Spirit dwelling in them, and this comes to the individual through the individual's faith in Him.

Romans 6:4 & 8-9
Christ, whose dead body was quickened, was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, and if we died with Christ, we have faith that we also continue to live with Him, knowing that Christ being raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has dominion over Him."

Being quickened by the Spirit is not the same as being born of the Spirit, just because the latter needs to take place before the former can take place.​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You asked that question in such a way as to imply or make the (false) assumption that what you say about what scripture teaches regarding being quickened, is true, though your assertions are false.​

LOL. What?

Quickening (being made alive) is not associated with spirit or with spiritual birth.​

Yes, it is. Paul clearly did that in Ephesians 2:4-6. Do you not think that when we are saved we go from being spiritually dead in our sins to spiritually alive in Christ? Do you deny ever being dead in your sins?

How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Quickening is associated with death, hence it is associated with the Spirit of God making that which was dead - which had died - alive again.​

Again, do you deny that before someone becomes spiritually saved, that they were previously dead in their sins as Paul wrote about in Ephesians 2:1-6? If not, what do you call it when someone goes from being dead in their sins to...no longer being dead in their sins?

Christ's Spirit did not die.​

Huh? Who said that? No one.

His dead body was quickened by the Spirit - death could not hold him - and He rose again from the dead bodily.​

He didn't sin, so why would you compare His experience to sinners who were formerly dead in their sins but made alive in Christ?

The body is dead because of sin and unless we are born of the Spirit we will never have any spiritual life. We never had any spiritual life to begin with.​

Are you denying that we have spiritual life now after formerly being dead in our sins? You're not making much sense here.

You make it clear by the implication of what you say that you believe that you were once alive spiritually, but then you sinned, and then you died, spiritually - because you say you were spiritually dead in sin (though you had never been spiritually alive in the first place before you were born of the Spirit).

Yes, that's right, because scripture teaches this. Do you believe people are born dead in their sins? Do you believe that when babies or young children die, they go to hell?

Paul wrote about at what point we become dead in our sins.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Paul died spiritually at the point when he became aware of what sin is which is when he became aware of the commandments in the law. People are not born dead in their sins. They become dead in sins at the point when they became aware of what sin is and they commit sin.

If you were spiritually dead in sin, when did your spirit die? Before you were born in the world ? Or after you were born into the world?

Being spiritually dead in sins does not mean one's spirit is literally dead. It means you are separated from a personal relationship with God. Your understanding of the word "dead" or "death" is flawed. Do you think the second death (Rev 20:15) will result in people no longer having any consciousness? I don't. That's not what death is. It's separation. Our physical death is the separation of our souls and spirits from our bodies (2 Cor 5:8). The second death will result in unbelievers being separated from the Lord forever.

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Being dead in sins means someone is separated from a personal relationship with God.

How could you have been spiritually dead before you were born of God?​

How could I not have been? Do you just ignore when Paul wrote that people are dead in their sins before they become saved (Ephesians 2:1-6)? What do you think it means to be dead in sins?

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.​

What? You're just making things up now. Notice how I'm using scripture to back up my view and you are not. My body was not dead even when I was dead in sins. That's ludicrous.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".​

Do you have something against spiritual things? Why can you only focus on the body? Do you believe we have a soul and spirit, also? Do you believe in soul sleep? If not, then why can't you understand what I'm talking about when I talk about going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ? It seems that you are making up a doctrine all to yourself here by acting as if being dead in sins means our bodies are dead because of sin, whatever in the world that even means. After what you wrote up to this point, I see that you just continued to repeat yourself, but I'm not going to repeat myself.