Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...

[Ferris Bueller]

We are never going to come to consensus about this.... LOL.... It's a beautiful day outside... I need to get some of that FINALLY WARM air into my lungs.... Have a good one.

Warm air in Canada? Yeah, right. Oh wait, it's all relative, isn't it. It's probably above freezing there now. Enjoy!
(Actually, I love cool weather.)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

From personal experience, I think God will bring such types back to belief before they die....that is what happened to me......I went from a Believer to Atheism back to being a Believer again....Had I not been brought back to the Truth , I believe the Amazing Grace Of God would have covered it....

Not everybody came back after being cast out of the Promised Land. As you know, the exploits of Israel are for our warning. Not everybody comes back. Eventually, God doesn't allow it! You can't reject him forever. Hebrews 6:4-6. In fact, based on that scripture I don't think you departed from a born again birth but from a 'water' birth (John 3:5).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ NOBODY comes to Jesus lest the Spirit draw him” ......God starts the entire process ( not us ) and the Bible says that “ HE” will “ FINISH what HE STARTED”......

Not everybody in Israel had the benefit of that promise. Israel as a whole did (will), but many in Israel did not. They are in hell today even though they left Egypt along with the whole nation of God's people.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Bible says God is Faithful even when we are not....so what else could it be talking about.

I told you what else he could be talking about. It's the difference between Moses being unfaithful, and Moses going back to Egypt in unbelief. He was unfaithful to the Lord while in a state of complete hope and confidence in the Promise, but he never even thought about going back to Egypt. God had him covered in his unfaithfulness, but had he gone back to Egypt God would have forsaken him just as he would be forsaking God. Your story sounds like you went back to Egypt, not, you were unfaithful while continuing to believe in God. You yourself said you were an atheist during that time.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I asked for that Mercy.....mercy would take care of somebody stupid enough to fall from belief to Unbelief .

And that's the point you've been missing all along. You had to ask for it. You weren't automatically and continually saved while God waited for you to call out in repentance to him. You had to come back to him to be saved. You were lost during that time of unbelief, not saved. And if you hadn't of come back in the time he left open for you to do that you would be going to hell today, without remedy (Hebrews 6:4-6).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ Turn to me and I will turn to you if you mess up a little bit, but if you mess up Severely, all bets are off.....sorry, pal.....my Grace is there only if you don’t really need it”.....of course, the Bible does not say that.....God's Mercy extends farther than we can imagine—- probably farther than we want it to....too bad.

It does say that. Grace doesn't cover unbelievers. Grace covers unbelievers converted to belief. You can't be an unbeliever and still be saved. That's absurd. But you can be a royal screw up (meh!) in your state of believing and still be saved. I didn't write the book on that, but I wrote a couple of chapters.

 

[Addy]

I don't think I would have ever shrunk that low, but I do know, now, that she probably did that from a very immature state as a Christian. In your heart, give her the benefit of being able one day to grow up in her faith into the image of Christ and realizing that she probably could have witnessed to you the best by staying there and serving you in the love of Christ. Go easy on her. She may be at that more mature state today. Just as her kind are not to condemn sinners, they also are not to be condemned. I think that's fair, don't you?

That was 30 years ago... and I did not speak to her after she made that choice.... to this day it leaves a nauseating taste in my mouth...
These are the types of Christians I would not walk across the street to greet... nor would I sit down and break bread with them.
It has taken me 20 years to understand and be convinced that God actually and truly loves me... It is the DAMAGE from the legalists that have harmed me so deeply... I have no respect for a legalistic Christian.... and I am absolutely OK with this...

Anyways.... this conversation is not sitting well with me... as I know I have those who are watching my every word.... and because I have one on ignore.... I don't desire to share my heart as I once did... These forums are filled with vultures just waiting to pluck away at the flesh.

Have a good day Ferris.... I don't plan on having this conversation with you again.... some things only need to be stated once.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is the problem with not knowing what is actually a sin...biblical sin. We end up doing things that are not Christian. We have Christians looking at the body of fake sins and thinking that it is hopeless. The need for hyper grace to fix things because it looks like there is no hope of not sinning or being good...Making people think there is no chance of ever being good. As it stands there are a lot more fake sins than there are real sins. Christianity has taken us back to a era where the burden is like the Mosaic Law.

Boys will be boys! Christianity has been chugging along for 2000 years....one denomination trying to prove it is more holier than the other by coming up with man-made sins. Look at me! I don't do this! But look over here at me! I don't do that! The sad humor is that it is usually about lazy righteousness. It is not about a competition on who can do the most right...it is about not doing things!

They have turned the Christian life into a minefield of real and fake sins, where you are likely to step on a real sin, trying to avoid a fake sin. We take actions that are sinful trying to defend a fake morality. We judge people about fake sins, the result of which can be very harmful. Then on Judgment Day we have egg on our face because we did not know what sin is. It is important to know!

I have an article on man-made sins in Grailhunter's Corner.
Grailhunter’s Corner

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That was 30 years ago... and I did not speak to her after she made that choice.... to this day it leaves a nauseating taste in my mouth...
These are the types of Christians I would not walk across the street to greet... nor would I sit down and break bread with them.
It has taken me 20 years to understand and be convinced that God actually and truly loves me... It is the DAMAGE from the legalists that have harmed me so deeply... I have no respect for a legalistic Christian.... and I am absolutely OK with this...

Anyways.... this conversation is not sitting well with me... as I know I have those who are watching my every word.... and because I have one on ignore.... I don't desire to share my heart as I once did... These forums are filled with vultures just waiting to pluck away at the flesh.

Have a good day Ferris.... I don't plan on having this conversation with you again.... some things only need to be stated once.

God will bring you to the place where you can understand where she was coming from and you can let the hurt go.

 

[amigo de christo]

Quite accurate. But we should be careful what we label legalism. This, for example, is not legalism....

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; 20idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21​

It may be offensive to the sinner, but it is not legalism. To the humble and contrite being prepared by God for salvation it's the beginning of wisdom.

Sound it out my friend . Sound it out . We must make our stand on the whole righty divided word and words of truth .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Blood Bought 1953 , why are legalists exempt from the grace of God?

 

[amigo de christo]

Landlord of his tenants.

View attachment 14403

Oh its real all right . And its the place that all who rejected CHRIST or who followed another sin accepting jesus .
Time to dig in those bibles and get well learned .

 

[amigo de christo]

@Blood Bought 1953 , why are legalists exempt from the grace of God?

Flood the man with all reminders that JESUS and the apostles left . Do that and watch .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That was 30 years ago... and I did not speak to her after she made that choice.... to this day it leaves a nauseating taste in my mouth...
These are the types of Christians I would not walk across the street to greet... nor would I sit down and break bread with them.
It has taken me 20 years to understand and be convinced that God actually and truly loves me... It is the DAMAGE from the legalists that have harmed me so deeply... I have no respect for a legalistic Christian.... and I am absolutely OK with this...

Anyways.... this conversation is not sitting well with me... as I know I have those who are watching my every word.... and because I have one on ignore.... I don't desire to share my heart as I once did... These forums are filled with vultures just waiting to pluck away at the flesh.

Have a good day Ferris.... I don't plan on having this conversation with you again.... some things only need to be stated once.

In the first years of being a Christian I was very offended by Christians who were worldly, and especially those who were divorcing their spouses for un-Biblical reasons. God worked it in me to understand them. He did that by showing me my own shortcomings and failures and weaknesses and appreciating the pressures at work on Christians that cause them to act in ways they aren't supposed to. It didn't change God's requirements regarding those things. It changed how I look at people in the church and how everyone has pressures specific to their particular circumstances that push and provoke them to act in, shall we say, not so Christian ways.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What are you going to give Him the glory for...a sinful lifestyle?

Once again you nailed it !Your insights are truly outstanding!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Flood the man with all reminders that JESUS and the apostles left . Do that and watch .

Please don’t! I’m a-scared , I’m a- scared!!!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Why not? I mean, unless you have a Pauline kind of calling on your life, it is your choice. But it sounds like you're saying you're not allowed to. That's strange. What do you think evangelism is all about? But like I say, it really is your choice when and where you're going to evangelize.

Just make sure you preach Grace instead of Law....Laws were given so that “ sin might increase”, and we don’t want “ that” now, do we ?

Emulate Paul if you teach.....that would be to preach “Christ Crucified”.....Paul said that that was what he preached....

 

[justbyfaith]

Even that “ Super Strict Guy”, James, admits that we “ STUMBLE ( SIN) in MANY ways!

See Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10; all of which teach us that we don't have to stumble or fall.

We are not sinners because we sin....we sin because we are sinners...

So, if I don't sin, would that indicate that I am not a sinner? And if not, and I sin because I am a sinner, if I don't sin, doesn't that make me a sinner who doesn't sin?

...and yet when you ask the question.... WHAT would you do with these sinners... there doesn't seem to be an answer given...

The real question is not what I would do with them...but what God will do with them...the answer is found in Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41.

Legalism gives FALSE permission to judge and condemn...

Of course, there is a difference between judging and condemning, and declaring what are the judgments of the Lord to those who are condemned by them.

The world is full of Christians who are more than ready to correct and convict... and they cause much damage in my opinion... Like I shared before... my own relatives are of this mind set that it is their job to judge others and convict... I have seen the effects of this belief system... and it brings death... not life.

I wrote a song once.

Lord Jesus, I ask You further into my heart...
Come Holy Spirit, I pray, and make me more like You...
(repeat)

Grant me the victory in every battle...
Lord have the victory in every battle...

Lord Jesus, I ask You in my heart...
Lord Jesus, I ask You in my heart.

Becoming more like the Holy Spirit means that by nature we will be doing what He does...and it is His job to convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment.

So, for me to convict unbelievers by my statements has to do with the fact that I am being conformed to the personality of the Holy Spirit in my own personality.

... but what I am talking about are those who will shout on the street corners that the SINNERS are going to hell...

I don't see that too much any more...I think that people who do that are considered mentally ill and are placed into mental institutions these days.

But when it comes to being on a Christian message board, and doctrine is being discussed, when people are denying the sound doctrines of the Bible that pertain to the sinner going to hell, it is important that the true faith be contended for and that we defend it with our words (see Jude 1:3-4).

@Addy , what I was going to say was no one should evangelize if they are not ready to go to jail.

Or, the mental hospital. What many Christians do not realize is that if you are bold enough in preaching your faith, the authorities will not put you in jail but they will put you in a situation where you will be conditioned to take drugs...they will addict you to drugs and if you stop taking them they will take you again into the mental hospital where they will re-addict you to those drugs. It is designed to make drug addicts out of zealous believers. People who are dependent on the mental health system.

Then I remembered you're from Canada. You will go to jail for witnessing to your landlord if they report you, right? We Americans aren't going to be prepared for this when that happens here, very soon, I think.

It is already happening in America; only people aren't going to jail. They are going to the mental hospital.

....I went from a Believer to Atheism back to being a Believer again....Had I not been brought back to the Truth , I believe the Amazing Grace Of God would have covered it...

Not, it would not have covered it.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2).

If you don't have faith, you don't have access to grace.

And we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, if you don't have access to grace, you don't have salvation.

“ Turn to me and I will turn to you if you mess up a little bit, but if you mess up Severely, all bets are off.....sorry, pal.....my Grace is there only if you don’t really need it”..

It is not that grace is there only if you don't really need it...it is that grace, if properly applied, will change your life so that the only reason why you even need it any more is so that it can continue to change your life.

You were lost during that time of unbelief, not saved.

That's right.

The prodigal son, when he was away from his father, was both dead and lost (Luke 15:24, Luke 15:32).

 

[justbyfaith]

Just make sure you preach Grace instead of Law....Laws were given so that “ sin might increase”, and we don’t want “ that” now, do we ?

However, when we preach the law, conversions will result (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If only Cheap Gracer's would just get the message.

Those that believe in “ cheap Grace” automatically must believe in the “ cheap Blood” that purchased it...That will go over big when you meet Jesus face- to-face.....remind Him about that “ cheap Blood” when you finally see Him.....