SALVATION OF ANIMALS

[keithr]

Well you gave you ropinion why the present does mean the present but that is all it is-opinion. god knows how to use tenses and if He meant how you meant it, He would have used the perfect tense!

(I presume you meant, "Well you gave your opinion why the present does not mean the present".)

Yes, it is my opinion on what Paul meant by what he wrote. Similarly, your interpretation is your opinion on what Paul meant. You have assumed that "were dead in trespasses and sins" doesn't mean that they were actually dead (because that is obviously not the case) so you have decided that it must mean they were what you term "spiritually dead", which you say means that "they had no relationship wiith god". Then you've had to decide what you think "hath quickened us together with Christ" means, and decided that means that we are now sitting with Jesus in heaven. I think that is absurd. What does it look like and what's going on in heaven, as you're sat near Jesus who is sitting at the right hand of God? What does God look like? How can you seriously believe that is what Paul meant? That is why I reason that Paul meant that we were reckoned dead, and we are reckoned to have eternal life, although in actuality we were not dead and we are not yet immortal.

Well you use a modern translation the WEB and is the equivalent of the KJV for this passage, just repositioning the phraseology to make it easier to read for a modern English reader. so your argument is irrelevant.

But I wasn't arguing! I was just pointing out that the verse you quoted (verse 1) has some extra words added in by the translators, so it shouldn't say what you quoted, but I acknowledged that verse 5 does say much the same thing, with added details, so it would have been better to quote that verse. There's no argument there on my part, I was just paying close attention to the details and helping your argument!

Tell me before you were dead were you physically dead? Soul dead? or spiritually dead and had no relationship wiith god? something was dead and made alive ! If it wasn't your body or your conscience and personhood (soul) then it is the human spirit that was dead.

I have never been dead. That's the whole point. Nobody that Paul was talking to had died and been made alive again. It is just an expression of speech to explain that God considers us dead because of our sins, because that means that we will die (and were destined for eternal death), and that God considers that those that He has saved though His grace are alive (have eternal life) because He will resurrect us from death and make us immortal as members of the body of Christ. And after He has done that He will make us to sit with Jesus in heaven (verse 6), when we will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4). They were not with Jesus in heaven at that point - Paul later wrote that he longed to have a new spirit body and to be with Jesus in heaven, but he wasn't there yet - 2 Corinthians 5:1-7 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved {we die} , we have a building {new spirit body} from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​

(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​

(3) if so be that being clothed we will not be found naked.​

(4) For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.​

(5) Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.​

(6) Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;​

(7) for we walk by faith, not by sight.​

If we are still alive in our human body then we are absent from Jesus, and not sitting with Jesus in heaven.

If you think that is in error as you appear to do- show the evidence from Scripture.

I just have!

You defend it by reinterpreting the passage to get it to say what you believe instead of forming your belief by what God inspired Paul to write. You have allegorized the passage without proof.

I am interpreting what Paul wrote based on what he wrote in this passage and what is written in other verses of Scripture. It must all harmonise, or else it can't be a correct understanding.

 

[keithr]

I wasn't physically dead when I was unsaved.

I was not soul dead ( I had a personality and could think and feel) so I was dead in another way- and that was spirit. C'mon man We must think along with the bible here.

You haven't thought of all possible explanations. I have pointed out another explanation to you. It's up to you to decide whether it could be the truth or not. I'm just trying to helpl you understand the truth; that's the whole point of these forum discussions is it not?

 

[keithr]

Regardless IF an EVER Living Spirit or a naturally ALIVE human… Either can be SPIRITUALLY DEAD, yet they alive.

God will not allow any being to live forever if they are not perfect according to His righteous laws and love - sin is the opposite of love (that is why mankind has been sentenced to death - eternal death, not eternal life). There are currently no "ever living" beings except God and Jesus, and no eternally living being can be "spiritually dead".

 

[keithr]

Typically a waste of time.

The Scriptures are a waste of time?!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you saying you are not a female?

Never have been!

BTW: I am now waiting for you to supply two pieces of information now!

1. What kind of being is Jesus if not absolute divinty.

2. Give an example when I added words to Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, it is my opinion on what Paul meant by what he wrote. Similarly, your interpretation is your opinion on what Paul meant. You have assumed that "were dead in trespasses and sins" doesn't mean that they were actually dead (because that is obviously not the case) so you have decided that it must mean they were what you term "spiritually dead",

No I accepted what Paul said as written, without hidden commentary.

So you believe that when we dead in trespasses and sins (past tense) we were physically dead? That is a trick!

But as man was created as a trichotomous being and prior to us bein gsaced we were fucntioning as body and soul then it must have been the human spirit that was dead, which is the case for all born.

But I wasn't arguing! I was just pointing out that the verse you quoted (verse 1) has some extra words added in by the translators, so it shouldn't say what you quoted, but I acknowledged that verse 5 does say much the same thing, with added details, so it would have been better to quote that verse. There's no argument there on my part, I was just paying close attention to the details and helping your argument!

YOUR WEB and teh KJV say the exact same in a different way.

I have never been dead. That's the whole point. Nobody that Paul was talking to had died and been made alive again.

Not physically, but spiritually you were as dead as dirt! I agree with the second phrase, for then we would have been RFE-quickened. See simply language makes all the difference.

If we are still alive in our human body then we are absent from Jesus, and not sitting with Jesus in heaven.

And yet still seated in heavenly plac es! Paul said it was a present fact. You need to accept what the finite human mind cannot rationalize by faith.

I just have!

No for you reject the present reality of a believer.

I am interpreting what Paul wrote based on what he wrote in this passage

And you do what Scripture explicitly forbids us to do- interpret what is written.

I agree we must look to the whole counsel of Scripture to form a doctrine, but it must be without interpretation.

You haven't thought of all possible explanations. I have pointed out another explanation to you. It's up to you to decide whether it could be the truth or not. I'm just trying to helpl you understand the truth; that's the whole point of these forum discussions is it not?

Why do I need to look at "possible explanations"? Why should I reject what god inspired as literally true as written and accept what you say as literally true? Are you more worthy to to interpret Scripture than what God said? Where did you get this power?

Please don't say the Holy Spirit for legions before you who would say you are a heretic have blamed the Holy Spirit as well.

 

[Peterlag]

Never have been!

BTW: I am now waiting for you to supply two pieces of information now!

1. What kind of being is Jesus if not absolute divinty.

2. Give an example when I added words to Scripture.

@keithr is brilliant and he has noticed your first name is Ronald. But I have noticed your photo looks like a female.

 

[Taken]

God will not allow any being to live forever if they are not perfect according to His righteous laws and love -

Disagree…celestial spirits live forever.

sin is the opposite of love

Disagree…sin is rejection, rebellion, denial of the Lord God.

that is why mankind has been sentenced to death -

Disagree…ManKind has been sentenced to Bodily DIE…BECAUSE a natural body can not become made a glorified body UNTIL AFTER it has become DEAD.

There are currently no "ever living" beings except God and Jesus,

Disagree.

and no eternally living being can be "spiritually dead".

Disagree.

 

[Taken]

The Scriptures are a waste of time?!

Never said that.
Did say it is a waste of my time …
IN RESPONSE TO your implication that I should LOOK UP Scriptures FOR YOU.

 

[keithr]

Never said that.
Did say it is a waste of my time …
IN RESPONSE TO your implication that I should LOOK UP Scriptures FOR YOU.

Disagree…celestial spirits live forever.

I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.

Disagree…sin is rejection, rebellion, denial of the Lord God.

I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.

Disagree…ManKind has been sentenced to Bodily DIE…BECAUSE a natural body can not become made a glorified body UNTIL AFTER it has become DEAD.

I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.

Disagree.

Disagree.

Thank you for letting us know that you disagree. What a helpful contribution that has been. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

 

[Taken]

I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.


I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.


I disagree. Look up the Scriptures.


Thank you for letting us know that you disagree. What a helpful contribution that has been. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

Your sarcasm along with your half truth noted.
Clearly, It is YOU I disagree with, Not Scripture.

 

[keithr]

No I accepted what Paul said as written, without hidden commentary.

You don't accept what Paul wrote about being dead - Ephesians 2:5 (ISV):

(5) even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),​

Taking Paul literally, he said we were dead. You've added a strange interpretation of what dead means, presumably based on a commentary that you have read or been taught. Jesus was dead and buried (in a tomb) when he was made alive, so for us to be made alive with Jesus means that we must first be dead and buried - that's if you take Paul literally as he wrote.

So you believe that when we dead in trespasses and sins (past tense) we were physically dead? That is a trick!

No I don't believe that. You obviously didn't read my post very well. This is what I wrote:

I have never been dead. That's the whole point. Nobody that Paul was talking to had died and been made alive again. It is just an expression of speech to explain that God considers us dead because of our sins ...​

But as man was created as a trichotomous being

Humans are not divided into three parts. At most we are two parts; a spirit part (or soul) living in a physical body. Genesis 2:7 (WEB):

(7) Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

Adam was created as a dead (lifeless) physical body, then God added a spirit part (nëshamah - breath or spirit) and made the body start to function (breathing and heart pumping, etc.) and that made him a living soul (as opposed to a dead soul). Barnes Notes says:

Here his constitution is described with marked regard to his adaptation to be the cultivator of the soil. He is a compound of matter and mind. His material part is dust from the soil, out of which he is formed as the potter moulds the vessel out of the clay. He is אדם 'ādām “Adam,” the man of the soil, ארמה 'ădāmâh “adamah.” His mission in this respect is to draw out the capabilities of the soil to support by its produce the myriads of his race.​

​

His mental part is from another source. “And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.” The word נשׁמה neshāmâh is invariably applied to God or man, never to any irrational creature. The “breath of life” is special to this passage. It expresses the spiritual and principal element in man, which is not formed, but breathed by the Creator into the physical form of man. This rational part is that in which he bears the image of God, and is suited to be his vicegerent on earth. As the earth was prepared to be the dwelling, so was the body to be the organ of that breath of life which is his essence, himself.​

​

And the man became a living soul. - This term “living soul” is also applied to the water and land animals Gen_1:20-21, Gen_1:24. As by his body he is allied to earth and by his soul to heaven, so by the vital union of these he is associated with the whole animal kingdom, of which he is the constituted sovereign. This passage, therefore, aptly describes him as he is suited to dwell and rule on this earth. The height of his glory is yet to come out in his relation to the future and to God.​

prior to us bein gsaced we were fucntioning

What is this gobbledygook! Did you mean "prior to us being saved we were functioning"?

as body and soul then it must have been the human spirit that was dead, which is the case for all born.

The body without the spirit/soul cannot function, so if the spirit/soul is dead then the physical body will die too. At the very least it will be a mindless body - as good as dead.

YOUR WEB

It's not my WEB! I quite like the WEB (World English Bible) because it is a quite good translation (not perfect, but better than most) that doesn't hide God's name, and it is not copyrighted - we are free (legally and financially) to quote as much of it as we like.

The World English Bible (WEB), published in 2014, is a Public Domain (no copyright) Modern English translation of the Holy Bible. That means that you may freely copy it in any form, including electronic and print formats. The World English Bible is based on the American Standard Version of the Holy Bible first published in 1901, the Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensa Old Testament, and the Greek Majority Text New Testament.​

and teh KJV say the exact same in a different way.

Yep. But notice that the KJV has "hath he quickened" in italics, meaning that it's not in the original manuscripts but has been added by the translators - Ephesians 2:1 (KJV):

(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;​

I agree with the second phrase, for then we would have been RFE-quickened. See simply language makes all the difference.

What does "RFE-quickened" mean? Please use simple language!

And yet still seated in heavenly plac es! Paul said it was a present fact. You need to accept what the finite human mind cannot rationalize by faith.

Again, Paul wrote, 2 Corinthians 5:6 (WEB):

(6) Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;​

Your post started off saying, "I accepted what Paul said as written", so you should accept the above verse as Paul wrote it. If we are still living in our human body then we are absent from Jesus, and can't be sitting with him in heavenly places.

And you do what Scripture explicitly forbids us to do- interpret what is written.

Scripture does not say we should not interpret the Bible. I guess (because you don't provide supporting evidence) you're thinking of 2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV):

(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.​

(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.​

Peter was talking about Old Testament prophecies, not the whole of the Old Testament (and New Testament). It does not forbid explaining what the Scriptures mean.

Why do I need to look at "possible explanations"? Why should I reject what god inspired as literally true as written and accept what you say as literally true?

Because you wrote:

I was not soul dead (I had a personality and could think and feel) so I was dead in another way - and that was spirit.​

so you interpreted ;) that Paul did not mean that you were literally physically dead (so you did "reject what God inspired as literally true"), and so just assumed it meant one other thing, when in fact there are other possible meanings.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@keithr is brilliant and he has noticed your first name is Ronald. But I have noticed your photo looks like a female.

If you read my line describing the avatar in every post, you would see those pictured are 6 of my 10 grandkids.

Still waiting for you to document what kind of being Jesus is as you deny He is absolute divinity and also cite where I have added words to Scripture.

Unless you are willing to recant both positions.

Ignoring them in hopes they go away is very un-Christ like.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't accept what Paul wrote about being dead - Ephesians 2:5 (ISV):

What is this gobbledygook! Did you mean "prior to us being saved we were functioning"?

Yes, my bad.

(5) even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),
Taking Paul literally, he said we were dead. You've added a strange interpretation of what dead means, presumably based on a commentary that you have read or been taught. Jesus was dead and buried (in a tomb) when he was made alive, so for us to be made alive with Jesus means that we must first be dead and buried - that's if you take Paul literally as he wrote.

No, I fully accept what Paul said. I wasd dead, though I was alive!
so what part of me was dead? It takes studying the counsel of Scripture on this to learn the answer and not some mystical interpretation.

I have never been dead. That's the whole point. Nobody that Paul was talking to had died and been made alive again. It is just an expression of speech to explain that God considers us dead because of our sins ...

YOur proof of that?

Humans are not divided into three parts. At most we are two parts; a spirit part (or soul) living in a physical body. Genesis 2:7 (WEB):

Don't tell Paul that!
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

According to y9o0u Paul was asking a blessing on body, spirit and spirit. Kind of moronic.

Yep. But notice that the KJV has "hath he quickened" in italics, meaning that it's not in the original manuscripts but has been added by the translators - Ephesians 2:1 (KJV):

(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

And it is not in whatever manuscripts the WEB used and yet they put it in as well!

The World English Bible (WEB), published in 2014, is a Public Domain (no copyright) Modern English translation of the Holy Bible. That means that you may freely copy it in any form, including electronic and print formats. The World English Bible is based on the American Standard Version of the Holy Bible first published in 1901, the Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensa Old Testament, and the Greek Majority Text New Testament.

IOW Almost all the available Hebrew manuscripts and the textus receptus of the KJV!

What does "RFE-quickened" mean? Please use simple language!

If man was alive once and dead and then made alive again-they would be requickened.

Scripture does not say we should not interpret the Bible. I guess (because you don't provide supporting evidence) you're thinking of 2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV):

(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Peter was talking about Old Testament prophecies, not the whole of the Old Testament (and New Testament). It does not forbid explaining what the Scriptures mean.

Nice way of trying to justify reinterpreting the words on the page to spiritual meanings that do not even equal what was written by the inspired writers. Why should I accept your words as literal and not accept the inspired authors of SCripture as literal.

Explaining is not the same as allegorizing to give so called "spiritual interpretations".

Because you wrote:

I was not soul dead (I had a personality and could think and feel) so I was dead in another way - and that was spirit.
so you interpreted ;) that Paul did not mean that you were literally physically dead (so you did "reject what God inspired as literally true"), and so just assumed it meant one other thing, when in fact there are other possible meanings.

Because I do not need to trust "spiritual aspirations" to define SCripture. Paul said I was dead, so I was! If God meant He considered me dead but not really dead, He would have said so and not need to wait almost 2000 yes to have keithr tell us what He meant.

 

[Peterlag]

If you read my line describing the avatar in every post, you would see those pictured are 6 of my 10 grandkids.

Still waiting for you to document what kind of being Jesus is as you deny He is absolute divinity and also cite where I have added words to Scripture.

Unless you are willing to recant both positions.

Ignoring them in hopes they go away is very un-Christ like.

It looks like a woman standing with the kids in that photo who seems to be up in years. I doubt that is one of your grand kids. But then again I can't always be right about stuff unless it's the Scriptures we are talking about. I'm not going to search for the large amount of time and there were a very large amount of times you added to the Scripture so it will read as you believe it should. You and most on here do the same with the Christ. Even many Bibles write the name of Jesus right into the first verse of John 1:1. But I will comment on the Christ. He is the son of God, a man approved of God, and the Messiah to Israel.

 

[keithr]

No, I fully accept what Paul said. I wasd dead, though I was alive!

That's the kind of reasoning that meant thousands of Catholics believed in the Transubstantiation, where people were told to believe that when the priest prayed over the bread that a miracle happened and the bread turned into the human flesh of Jesus, and then another miracle happened and Jesus' flesh was changed to look identical to the bread that it started as (and when you ate it it tasted like the bread) - yeh, right!

so what part of me was dead? It takes studying the counsel of Scripture on this to learn the answer and not some mystical interpretation.

You think that being dead but alive is not a mystical interpretation?! Were you a zombie? It's more mystical than my explanation!

YOur proof of that?

Do you have proof that you were dead? You're claiming that millions of people walking around in the world are dead. Absurd! They are destined to die because they have not yet believed in the redeeming sacrifice that Jesus made, so they are reckoned dead, just as those that have believed are considered as having eternal life even though they will die, for Christians must suffer and die with Jesus - as Jesus' body we are part of the sacrifice. We are considered buried with Jesus and that we will resurrected to immortal life like Jesus. Romans 6:4 (WEB):

(4) We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.​

Taking that literally then you have been buried in a tomb with Jesus - was that for just three days or are you still there, rather than in heavenly places with Jesus?!

Don't tell Paul that!
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You/we are digressing again. It's not a straightforward subject, it's not clearly explained in the Scriptures (and words sometimes translated as soul and sometimes as spirit and sometimes as breath, just confuses all the more). I consider the spirit as a spirit being part (whatever that is; it's invisible and not physical), and the soul is a term to describe our character, memories, reasoning powers, etc.. The body is the only straightforward part - what we can see and touch. Paul also wrote, 2 Corinthians 7:1 (WEB):

(1) Having therefore these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.​

Flesh is just flesh, spirit is just spirit, our soul is what is unique to us as an individual. It's our thoughts that can defile our flesh and spirit. Jesus also said, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.​

Our soul - what is unique to us, our memories, character, way of thinking, etc. - is what is important, not our bodies. Our soul must be a characteristic of our spirit - when the body is destroyed our soul survives in our spirit, although in a dormant state (referred to as "sleep").

And it is not in whatever manuscripts the WEB used and yet they put it in as well!

Yes. That is why I thought it was useful to point it out. We need to know what the Scriptures actually said and not believe translation errors.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It looks like a woman standing with the kids in that photo who seems to be up in years. I doubt that is one of your grand kids. But then again I can't always be right about stuff unless it's the Scriptures we are talking about. I'm not going to search for the large amount of time and there were a very large amount of times you added to the Scripture so it will read as you believe it should. You and most on here do the same with the Christ. Even many Bibles write the name of Jesus right into the first verse of John 1:1. But I will comment on the Christ. He is the son of God, a man approved of God, and the Messiah to Israel.

Maybe you should believe people when they tell you the truth. Your mind reading and picture evaluation skills suck. that is my oldest granddaughter no matter what your prognoisticating skill stell you.

And no you are not always right when it comes to the Scriptures.

I will take just one example of me adding to the Scriptures, never mind many, just one. Until then you are just making empty accusations. If there are a very large amount, it would take hardly any time at all to prove your allegation. Other wise I am calling it as a lie!!

Still wanting to know what kind of being you believe Jesus is. Why don't you simply say it without burying it with other quotes. It is simple as this: I believe jesus was...... and I believe Jesus is....... That is all that is asked of you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's the kind of reasoning that meant thousands of Catholics believed in the Transubstantiation, where people were told to believe that when the priest prayed over the bread that a miracle happened and the bread turned into the human flesh of Jesus, and then another miracle happened and Jesus' flesh was changed to look identical to the bread that it started as (and when you ate it it tasted like the bread) - yeh, right!

Wrong again but thanks for trying! I bet you don't even know what was happening when Jesus called the bread HIs body and the cup HIs blood.

You think that being dead but alive is not a mystical interpretation?! Were you a zombie? It's more mystical than my explanation!

Not in the least.

Do you believe this verse?

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Or did God make a mistake here as well and needs the mystical powers of Keithr to tell us what He meant here.

You/we are digressing again. It's not a straightforward subject, it's not clearly explained in the Scriptures (and words sometimes translated as soul and sometimes as spirit and sometimes as breath, just confuses all the more). I consider the spirit as a spirit being part (whatever that is; it's invisible and not physical), and the soul is a term to describe our character, memories, reasoning powers, etc.. The body is the only straightforward part - what we can see and touch. Paul also wrote, 2 Corinthians 7:1 (WEB):

(1) Having therefore these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Flesh is just flesh, spirit is just spirit, our soul is what is unique to us as an individual. It's our thoughts that can defile our flesh and spirit. Jesus also said, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Our soul - what is unique to us, our memories, character, way of thinking, etc. - is what is important, not our bodies. Our soul must be a characteristic of our spirit - when the body is destroyed our soul survives in our spirit, although in a dormant state (referred to as "sleep").

You should go to the greek then and learn that body, soul and spirit are three separate parts of a man. Soma, psuche, and pneuma. and pneuma and psuche are not interchangable

Like Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. what becomes absent from the body of a believer is their pneuma and psuche.

Yes. That is why I thought it was useful to point it out. We need to know what the Scriptures actually said and not believe translation errors.

So now you are a translation expert as well?

Interesting that all the translations all say we were dead, but you say we were not really dead in any sense but just considered dead.

 

[Peterlag]

Maybe you should believe people when they tell you the truth. Your mind reading and picture evaluation skills suck. that is my oldest granddaughter no matter what your prognoisticating skill stell you.

And no you are not always right when it comes to the Scriptures.

I will take just one example of me adding to the Scriptures, never mind many, just one. Until then you are just making empty accusations. If there are a very large amount, it would take hardly any time at all to prove your allegation. Other wise I am calling it as a lie!!

Still wanting to know what kind of being you believe Jesus is. Why don't you simply say it without burying it with other quotes. It is simple as this: I believe jesus was...... and I believe Jesus is....... That is all that is asked of you.

Are you asking me who the Christ is? Have I not answered you many times? He is the son of God, a man approved of God, and the Messiah to Israel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you asking me who the Christ is? Have I not answered you many times? He is the son of God, a man approved of God, and the Messiah to Israel.

So you believe He is just a man then.

What was He before He became just a man. teh bible specifically says He existed before He became a man. What type of being was He then?

You know what I am asking. Just come out with the full answer.