SALVATION OF ANIMALS

[Taken]

When we start adding to the Scripture based on what our understanding thinks is when we no longer have the Scriptures left, but rather our own understanding of it. The text is...

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,...

Aware of the TEXT, which is KNOWLEDGE.
No one added to the text.
Discussing the text is not ADDING to the text.
Spiritual (ie. According to God), Understanding … is given “particular” men FROM the Lord God Himself, to whit, a man who has Not spiritual understanding, is LACK in the ability to understanding (according to God).

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This is pretty hilarious... does the OP think we should be out preaching the gospel to animals?
Bark once if you accept Jesus... bark twice if you aren't sure, and wag yo tails if you got questions!

 

[keithr]

Then define this verse:

Ephesians 2​

King James Version​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

I already explained that in post #266. There's no point repeating myself. (BTW, I think that should be verse 1, not 2.)

Quickened: syzōopoieō to make one alive

In the original manuscripts it does not have "hath he quickened" in verse 1, it was added by the translators. More modern translations translate it as, for example:

ISV: (1) You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
ESV: (1) And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
NET: (1) And although you were dead in your offenses and sins,
TLV: (1) You were dead in your trespasses and sins.

Perhaps you should have quoted verse 5 - WEB:

(5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),​

Paul obviously doesn't mean that we were actually dead, for none of the people that Paul was talking to had died and come back to life again. He means that they were reckoned/considered as dead because they had sinned and the punishment for sin is death. Once we have been saved by God's grace, then God considers us alive (will have eternal life). By not realising that, people have come up with this idea of "spiritual death" rather than actual death, which is misleading.

Dead: nekros deceased, dead, spiritually dead.

There you go again, adding the word 'spritually'! Strong's says:

3498. νεκρός nekros [nek-ros’;] from an apparently primary νεκυς nekus (a corpse); dead (literally or figuratively; also as noun): — dead.​

Changing 'dead' to "spiritually dead" is changing what was written in order to influence someone's beliefs.

The Online Bible Greek Lexicon says:

1) properly​

1a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless​

1b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell​

1c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate​

2) metaph.​

2a) spiritually dead​

2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins​

2a2) inactive as respects doing right​

2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative​

So it adds its definition of a possible metaphorical interpretation (even though it is always translated in the KJV as simply "dead"), and calls it "spiritually dead". I don't believe that Paul meant "spiritually dead"; I believe he meant "you were destined to die", not "you were not living a life devoted to God"; and by "quickened" I don't think he meant "God has changed you to live a life devoted to God and doing right", he meant that God, "because of the great love with which he loved us" (verse 4), has promised to change us and give us eternal life, just like He has to Jesus.

What was dead and now made alive when one comes to jesus????????????

I've already explained that.

 

[keithr]

Now just show that Barnes is inspired in His opinion as the bible.

First, show me that your opinion is inspired.

 

[keithr]

God IS SPIRIT…a RELATIONSHIP with God IS between:
Gods Spirit and mans spirit…

So God is spirit and he has a spirit?

His own natural spirit is BORN AGAIN of Gods Seed, Gods Spirit.

You cannot be born by a seed, you can only be begotten by a seed.

1 John 3:9 (ASV):

(9) Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.​

In the Greek the same word is used for both begotten and born - we have to decide which is correct based on the context. This has resulted in confusion due to incorrect translations, e.g. 1 Peter 1:23 (ASV):

(23) having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.​

KJV:

(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.​

We are begotten by the word of God, not born by the word of God. We are born again when we are changed. 1 Corinthians 15:36-38 (WEB):

(36) You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies.​

(37) That which you sow, you don’t sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind.​

(38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.​

If God's seed (His word) remains in a person then the new creature will be born when God resurrects it from death and gives it a new immortal spirit body.

 

[Taken]

So God is spirit and he has a spirit?

I concur, you do not KNOW.

God IS SPIRIT.
SPIRIT IS Gods Power and Gods Glory.
Yes Gods “GIVES” angels and manKIND, “portions” of His SPIRIT, (His POWER)…

And to NO ONE, does God GIVE “ALL of His Spirit, His Power, His Glory”.

You cannot be born by a seed, you can only be begotten by a seed.

Seed is one thing…
Begotten is another thing…

Seeds reproduce / BIRTHS its same KIND of thing.
Begotten is the SOURCE of the SEED.

1 John 3:9 (ASV):

(9) Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.​

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God, is both the “SEED and the one BEGETTING”…
The “whosoever”…is the Receiver FROM the SAME ONE GOD.

In the Greek the same word is used for both begotten and born - we have to decide which is correct based on the context. This has resulted in confusion due to incorrect translations, e.g. 1 Peter 1:23 (ASV):

Not difficult to know, the different between the Giver and Receiver.

We are begotten by the word of God, not born by the word of God.

Be cautious…
The WHOLE “OF” God IS God, Supreme POWER.
Gods WORD plays a POWERFUL Role.
Gods SEED plays a POWERFUL Role.
Gods WILL plays a POWERFUL Role.

If God's seed (His word) remains in a person then the new creature will be born when God resurrects it from death and gives it a new immortal spirit body.

Some HUMAN Spirits can and ARE born again, BEFORE their body experiences its resurrection and change from mortality to immorality.​

 

[Peterlag]

Aware of the TEXT, which is KNOWLEDGE.
No one added to the text.
Discussing the text is not ADDING to the text.
Spiritual (ie. According to God), Understanding … is given “particular” men FROM the Lord God Himself, to whit, a man who has Not spiritual understanding, is LACK in the ability to understanding (according to God).

I have been going back and forth with @Ronald Nolette a whole lot to know she adds words to the Bible. She leaves words out. In her mind it's always on how she believes the Bible should read and not what is there. The Scripture does not say we were dead spiritually. It says we were dead in sins.

 

[keithr]

I have been going back and forth with @Ronald Nolette a whole lot to know she adds words to the Bible. She leaves words out. In her mind it's always on how she believes the Bible should read and not what is there. The Scripture does not say we were dead spiritually. It says we were dead in sins.

Errm, isn't Ronald a man's name?

 

[keithr]

God IS SPIRIT.
SPIRIT IS Gods Power and Gods Glory.

So "God is God's power and God's glory"? That doesn't make much sense.

Yes Gods “GIVES” angels and manKIND, “portions” of His SPIRIT, (His POWER)…

And to NO ONE, does God GIVE “ALL of His Spirit, His Power, His Glory”.

Again, you're not supplying any Biblical evidence to back up what you're writing.

What do you make of Ephesians 3:19 (WEB):

(19) and to know Christ’s love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.​

 

[Peterlag]

Errm, isn't Ronald a man's name?

I have the same problem with my barber. The shop is owned and run by two good looking women and the sign on the place says Doug's Barber Shop. There are even guys on here that post some good stuff and they too don't even look grown.

 

[keithr]

I have the same problem with my barber. The shop is owned and run by two good looking women and the sign on the place says Doug's Barber Shop. There are even guys on here that post some good stuff and they too don't even look grown.

It's the same with your avatar photo - it doesn't look like you're 68 years old. ;)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I already explained that in post #266. There's no point repeating myself. (BTW, I think that should be verse 1, not 2.)

Well you gave you ropinion why the present does mean the present but that is all it is-opinion. god knows how to use tenses and if He meant how you meant it, He would have used the perfect tense!

Perhaps you should have quoted verse 5 - WEB:

(5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Well you use a modern translation the WEB and is the equivalent of the KJV for this passage, just repositioning the phraseology to make it easier to read for a modern English reader. so your argument is irrelevant.

There you go again, adding the word 'spritually'! Strong's says:

3498. νεκρός nekros [nek-ros’;] from an apparently primary νεκυς nekus (a corpse); dead (literally or figuratively; also as noun): — dead.
Changing 'dead' to "spiritually dead" is changing what was written in order to influence someone's beliefs.

The Online Bible Greek Lexicon says:

1) properly1a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless1b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell1c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate2) metaph.2a) spiritually dead2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins2a2) inactive as respects doing right2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative
So it adds its definition of a possible metaphorical interpretation (even though it is always translated in the KJV as simply "dead"), and calls it "spiritually dead". I don't believe that Paul meant "spiritually dead"; I believe he meant "you were destined to die", not "you were not living a life devoted to God"; and by "quickened" I don't think he meant "God has changed you to live a life devoted to God and doing right", he meant that God, "because of the great love with which he loved us" (verse 4), has promised to change us and give us eternal life, just like He has to Jesus.

No I am not going again.

Tell me before you were dead were you physically dead? Soul dead? or spiritually dead and had no relationship wiith god? something was dead and made alive ! If it wasn't your body or your conscience and personhood (soul) then it is the human spirit that was dead.

If you think that is in error as you appear to do- show the evidence from Scripture.

You are not quoting Scripture but your opinion of Scripture when you wrote this:

So it adds its definition of a possible metaphorical interpretation (even though it is always translated in the KJV as simply "dead"), and calls it "spiritually dead". I don't believe that Paul meant "spiritually dead"; I believe he meant "you were destined to die", not "you were not living a life devoted to God"; and by "quickened" I don't think he meant "God has changed you to live a life devoted to God and doing right", he meant that God, "because of the great love with which he loved us" (verse 4), has promised to change us and give us eternal life, just like He has to Jesus.

YOu defend it by reinterpreting th epassage to get it to say what you believe instead of forming your belief by what God inspired Paul to write. You have allegorized the passage without proof.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

First, show me that your opinion is inspired.

Its called simple logic of the Scripture.

I wasn't physically dead when I was unsaved.

I was not soul dead ( I had a personality and could think and feel) so I was dead in another way- and that was spirit. C'mon man We must think along with the bible here.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have been going back and forth with @Ronald Nolette a whole lot to know she adds words to the Bible. She leaves words out. In her mind it's always on how she believes the Bible should read and not what is there. The Scripture does not say we were dead spiritually. It says we were dead in sins.

Well give me one example of me adding ot Scripture with no biblical warrant.

You are quick to accuse and slow to provide evidence.

BTW If I was a girl, I am the ugliest girl in the world!

 

[Taken]

I have been going back and forth with @Ronald Nolette a whole lot to know she adds words to the Bible. She leaves words out. In her mind it's always on how she believes the Bible should read and not what is there. The Scripture does not say we were dead spiritually. It says we were dead in sins.

Regardless IF an EVER Living Spirit or a naturally ALIVE human… Either can be SPIRITUALLY DEAD, yet they alive.

ALIVE…is it’s created “condition”.
DEAD…”spiritually” is the “absence’ of its relationship with God.
SIN…is the “CAUSE” of it’s “absence” of a spiritual relationship with God.

 

[Taken]

So "God is God's power and God's glory"? That doesn't make much sense.

God doesn’t make sense to a Carnal Mind.

Again, you're not supplying any Biblical evidence to back up what you're writing.

Typically a waste of time.

What do you make of Ephesians 3:19 (WEB):

Eph 3:
[19] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

It is an expression of Gods desire, FOR men who are, or choose to become made, saints and believers in Christ Jesus to “experience” the spiritual fullness of the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Peterlag]

Regardless IF an EVER Living Spirit or a naturally ALIVE human… Either can be SPIRITUALLY DEAD, yet they alive.

ALIVE…is it’s created “condition”.
DEAD…”spiritually” is the “absence’ of its relationship with God.
SIN…is the “CAUSE” of it’s “absence” of a spiritual relationship with God.

Give me a verse in the New Testament that says "dead spiritually"

 

[Peterlag]

Well give me one example of me adding ot Scripture with no biblical warrant.

You are quick to accuse and slow to provide evidence.

BTW If I was a girl, I am the ugliest girl in the world!

Are you saying you are not a female?

 

[Taken]

Give me a verse in the New Testament that says "dead spiritually"

No such term, such as;
Bible
Trinity
Spiritually Dead
Spiritually Alive
Etc.
exists in the Text of the Bible.

Some Life IS Natural, some Life IS Spiritual, per Gods creation, Gods pleasure.
* Death is a cecession of LIFE.
* Death is a separation of NATURAL LIFE from specific things God created.
* Death is a separation of GODS SUPERNATURAL LIFE from specific creations God “GAVE” then “DEPARTED” that LIFE.

THESE ARE VERY BASIC ELEMENTARY TEACHINGS GIVEN MANKIND

ManKIND is a NATURAL BODY creation, created (fORMED by the Hand of God) out of it’s created Habitat, EARTH, and it’s LIFE (BLOOD) IS Natural, it’s LIFE, must, SHALL DIE, and THAT BODY return to the EARTH, ROT, DECAY, and become dust of the Earth, no longer have the resemblance of a BODY.

A NATURAL manKIND FORMED BODY…so BORN, according to Gods ORDER and WAY…IS GIVEN a “SPIRITUAL LIFE”, (by God, who IS SPIRIT, and such LIFE Belongs to God)…
And IS CALLED a SOUL.
THAT SOUL, “IN or OUT” of the BODY…belongs TO GOD.
THE LIFE, “IN” THAT SOUL, is Called Gods BREATH.
THAT LIFE BELONGS TO GOD.

THAT LIFE, GIVEN from God unto a man’s BODY….
“EXPRESSLY” ALLOWS that Natural Body of manKIND…to “COMMUNICATE”…

If you have EVER taken NOTICE…manKIND COMMUNICATES…PRIMARILY BY the SEVEN “HOLES” Located IN a mans HEAD…
AS well “according to Gods Design, Order, Way…the COVERING over the BODY, has “COMMUNICATION” ability, by “a common knowledge, and personal experience”…of the thing CALLED FLESH.

The SPIRITUAL ALIVE GIFT of God GIVING a NATURAL BODY…
Gods LIVING SOUL…provides the man WITH communication…
Flesh….feels touch
2 eyes…see
2 nostrils…smell
2 ears…hear
1 mouth…utters sound
1 tongue in the mouth…tastes

God IS the God of the LIVING.
A NATURAL BODY of manKIND and it’s LIFE BLOOD….IS ALREADY condemned TO DEATH…IT MUST, IT SHALL DIE.
A DEAD body, Knows, feels, NOTHING.

THE LIVING SOUL (Gods SPIRITUAL possession) which WAS IMPARTED INTO THE BODY….DEPARTS OUT of the DYING/ DEAD BODY.

The MAN (in his OWN BODY, in it’s ALIVE Blood LIFE), with a Living soul…(has EVERY OPPORTUNITY) to communicate…with other men…
AND with Gods ADVOCATE, Called JESUS.

THE SAME MAN, has the FREEWILL, to decide and choose…to ALSO REJECT, exercising their OPTION to “communicate” with Gods ADVOCATE…JESUS.

NOT a BIG SECRET, a mans Natural BODY has an APPOINTMENT with DEATH, and that such moment of DEATH is unknown to the man.

NOT a BIG SECRET, a mans NATURAL BODY that has CHOSEN to REJECT Gods Advocate….such BODY (by Default) of the mans STANDING AGAINST GOD (ie. not WITH the Lord God)….IS every day of his natural life…”corrupting (Gods living soul), within that mans Natural body”.

So…see IF you can reasonably conclude…
Such a man (having REJECTED Gods Advocate) BODY Physically “mortally” DIES…

DO YOU THINK…the God of the Living…LIVING SOUL, alive with Gods BREATH…remains IN a natural DEAD rotting body?

It doesn’t.

So what happens to the LIVING SOUL of a PHYSICALLY MORTALLY DEAD BODY….?

Depends ON the BIG “IF”…
“IF” that man, in his own Blood mortal body, was IN Standing WITH or WITHOUT (ie AGAINST) God and His Advocate Jesus.

WITH the Lord God…that LIVING SOUL, departs the DEAD body…and RETURNS to God.

WITHOUT the Lord God…that LIVING SOUL, departs the DEAD body…and is SENT to a PLACE Gods PREPARED, SEPARATED from God, from His Kingdom, from His Grace, from His Comfort, from His Peace, from His Beauty.

Those Departed Living souls SEPARATED (from God) ARE DEAD unto God… THEY are NOT with God IN His KINGDOM, peace, comfort, etc.

Those such Living souls, SHALL remain ALIVE, separated FROM God…UNTIL JUDGEMENT DAY…(pre-determined, pre-known BY GOD…and that Knowledge secret from mankind).

ONCE JUDGEMENT DAY commences…Sentenceing thereafter shall OCCUR…The Knowledge of the Sentence IS revealed.

The LIFE in such souls…SHALL return to God…(as YOU SHOULD KNOW, Gods LIFE Never ceases to exist).
Such LIFELESS souls, along with the mans Lifeless BODY…SHALL BE DESTROYED IN HELL and FORGOTTEN.

IF you (being a human) have NOT gone step by step regarding the LIFE of your Body, the SOUL LIFE (belonging to God) imparted into your body….AND futher Gods OFFERING of SPIRIT LIFE, IN a mans BODY….
AND WHAT, WHEN, HOW, WHY….God has made specific OFFERING to YOU…regarding your body, Gods soul in your body, your spirit in your body……
I would suggest you IF you are lax about Knowledge of your own personal HUMAN SELF…
Far be it from you to have a fully knowledgable or meaningful relationship WITH another uninformed human, or a Spiritual God.

It is a study, that requires your own desire to learn. It is not a juvenile billeted step by step man-made design as men design for elementary students.

1 Cor 15
[38] But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
[39] All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
[40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
[41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[Taken]

Give me a verse in the New Testament that says "dead spiritually"

Give me a verse in the New Testament that says "dead spiritually"

Gen 2:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

IN the day that ADAM and EVE ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil…..

THEY DIED!
THEIR LIVING SOUL Became Corrupted AGAINST GOD.

THEY BODILY ALIVE were Separted from God….escorted OUT of Gods Presence IN Gods Garden, where God was.

You have a VOID in comprehending the differences between
Mortal Life, Mortal Death…and Spiritual Life and Spiritual Death.

God IS SPIRIT…any SPIRITUAL LIFE Separation from God…IS SPIRITUAL DEATH.