Renewable Salvation

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Eternally Grateful

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The first works of faith.


That we do.
27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”


28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Its not your work my friend. Time for you to repent and Give God credi
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

He does not do it all for us, without us, while we imagine we have faith alone. Faith alone is vain imagination in the night.


That we do by repenting from dead works.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.




Your gospel fas no credit with me. You're not God.
You gospel is not a gospel at all. It is not good news, it is sad news that people can thing even for a second they are righteous enough to be saved. when God said otherwise.
 

Raccoon1010

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@Eternally Grateful & @Charlie, no offense, and I'm not trying to argue with either of you. I think I believe differently and have tried to accept all the bible has to offer. Anyways, I'm going to cut out now or we'll just be going round in circles. Cheers!
 

Eternally Grateful

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OK, my belief is to make harmony with "all" of Jesus's teachings. Not just a few verses. And when you put them all together I think you get Faith plus works are required so that Jesus desires to save us.
did jesus contradict himself?

I want to make harmony of what Jesus and the word said, like you.

I do not see where jesus ever said we are saved by the cross plus works.. If we could earn our salvation by works. Jesus suffered the cross in vein did he not?
 

Eternally Grateful

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@Eternally Grateful & @Charlie, no offense, and I'm not trying to argue with either of you. I think I believe differently and have tried to accept all the bible has to offer. Anyways, I'm going to cut out now or we'll just be going round in circles. Cheers!
Devin, I am not trying to argue, I hope you do not think this.

Just trying to see where you are coming from and why
 

Raccoon1010

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On a final note, when I read the bible I don't see Jesus trying to reason out works out of the salvation he is trying to offer them. So I will teach faith plus works is required for most peoples salvation to be accepted by Jesus.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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On a final note, when I read the bible I don't see Jesus trying to reason out works out of the salvation he is trying to offer them. So I will teach faith plus works is required for most peoples salvation to be accepted by Jesus.
did Jesus teach law?

did Jesus teach that he was sent to judge or to save?

Did Jesus teach that we can work of our sin debt?

I highly encourage you to study john 3 - 6 where he teaches over and over that it is only through him we can recieve eternal life.. and we need to seek him, the true bread from heaven, where one can eat. and never die..
 
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Michiah-Imla

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@Charlie24 @mailmandan @Eternally Grateful

“…you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either! Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

YOU

YOU

YOU


Now go to your sectarian toolboxes and redact portions of this text with vain words and insult me with labels and false accusations!

Because that’s all you can do!

“They hate him who rebukes in the gate, and they despise him who speaks uprightly.” (Amos 5:10)
 

Raccoon1010

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did Jesus teach law?

did Jesus teach that he was sent to judge or to save?

Did Jesus teach that we can work of our sin debt?

I highly encourage you to study john 3 - 6 where he teaches over and over that it is only through him we can recieve eternal life.. and we need to seek him, the true bread from heaven, where one can eat. and never die..
OK this isn't going round in round so I will answer what I believe. I read that Jesus says by himself or thru his apostles:

1. Matthew 19:16-17 (Jesus is seen here teaching to obey the commandments to enter into eternal life).

2. 2 Timothy 4:1 (Jesus is judge, the bible is clear that he is our salvation)

3a. Matthew 3:8 (Teaches that we are to provide works meet for repentance. )

3b. Luke 15:7 (Says "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance").

Why is there joy in heaven over the one that repents. And we know we are to provide works meet for repentance.
 
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robert derrick

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James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.
Playing games with words and philosophy of meanings, is not believing and teaching the plain words of Scripture.

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


There is no justification without works, because justification is by works.
James is discussing the evidence of faith
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The evidence of the faith is the works of faith. God's faith is faith and works together. There is not one without the other. there is no substance to faith, without the evidence of works. Faith alone without works is without substances of God to save any man


(says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God.
Hearing only and faith alone by hearing is not an act. The only ones accounted as righteous are doing the word of righteousness.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Once again, no man is righteous by faith alone. Only them doing righteousness are called the righteous of God.

Faith alone righteousness is imaginary doctrinal righteousness of man without doing righteousness.

Doctrinal righteousness by faith alone, is as real as faith alone: it doesn't exist.
(Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The imaginary gospel of saved and justified by faith alone and not by works, does not exist.

We do not save and justify ourselves by our own doctrine of our own faith. We can dote about words with great swollen meanings, so as to make for ourselves one really swell gospel by faith alone. But it doesn't make it real, nor does it save us.

Doctrine alone saves no man.


Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24).

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The false faith of works, is faith based upon works we do without Christ. We do our own works, that we then begin to believe and trust in.

It's better than dead faith alone without works, but it does not justify us with Christ.

Man owns the works, by his own faith alone. Christ owns the works, by doing them with the faith of Jesus.

Man owns the doctrine by his own faith alone. Christ owns the doctrine by doing His word.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The doctrine of one's own faith alone, speaks of himself, not of Christ.

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
Alone is added to the word of God. The only time alone appears with faith in Scripture, is to condemn it as dead.

It is through faith "in Christ alone"
And this is not at all what is being taught for salvation and justification by faith alone without works.

Having faith in Christ alone, is not having faith alone. OSAS does not teach having faith in Christ alone, but having salvation by faith alone.


(and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ
Our works have no merit. Doing God's works by His faith, by which we are justified, is His merit in us working with us to do His word and will, and not be faith alone hearers only.


(Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren)
And so now you say there is unfruitful and barren faith. You call faith alone that saves, barren and unfruitful faith: dead.

There is no faith alone at all, ever. Unfruitful and unbarren seed and faith is dead. There is no saving faith without roots:

But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

Adding the things of virtue and godliness to our faith completes the faith that saves and justifies us with Christ. Until then that faith is incomplete, barren, and unfruitful, and saves no man at all.

The work of faith to add these things to our faith, is the roots of living faith, that is not dead and alone.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Only those living the faith of God, are justified by Christ. Faith alone 'before' living the faith is dead and has no root at all.



if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Until that harmony of faith and works is completed, there is no genuine salvation of faith alone.

The consummation of our marriage to Christ, to be flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bone, is only by doing the word of faith, and not by faith alone and hearing only.

Faith apart from works does not exist, except in the minds of vain imagination.
 

Eternally Grateful

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OK this isn't going round in round so I will answer what I believe. I read that Jesus says by himself or thru his apostles:

1. Matthew 19:16-17 (Jesus is seen here teaching to obey the commandments to enter into eternal life).

2. 2 Timothy 4:1 (Jesus is judge, the bible is clear that he is our salvation)

3a. Matthew 3:8 (Teaches that we are to provide works meet for repentance. )

3b. Luke 15:7 (Says "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance").

Why is there joy in heaven over the one that repents. And we know we are to provide works meet for repentance.
thank you for your patience

repent leads to faith.

faith leads to salvation

Salvation plus faith leads to works.

Yes, in Matt 19 Jesus says that.. His people DO obey.. it is the characteristics of his people. as apposed to saying it is the requirement of his people

yes he will judge..The living (those who are born again to life) and the dead (Those who are condemned)

in Matt 3. John the baptist is calling out pharisees who wanted to be baptised. He demanded they show works which proved they repented. or he would not baptize them. Much Like james called out people who claimed to have faith but had no works.

in luke. Amen, there is joy in heaven over 1 sinner who repents..

who are sinners? Paul says in romans 3 we have all sinned and fall short (miss the mark)

the question is. what is that mark that we needed to meet to not be considered a sinner?
 

Raccoon1010

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thank you for your patience

repent leads to faith.

faith leads to salvation

Salvation plus faith leads to works.

Yes, in Matt 19 Jesus says that.. His people DO obey.. it is the characteristics of his people. as apposed to saying it is the requirement of his people

yes he will judge..The living (those who are born again to life) and the dead (Those who are condemned)

in Matt 3. John the baptist is calling out pharisees who wanted to be baptised. He demanded they show works which proved they repented. or he would not baptize them. Much Like james called out people who claimed to have faith but had no works.

in luke. Amen, there is joy in heaven over 1 sinner who repents..

who are sinners? Paul says in romans 3 we have all sinned and fall short (miss the mark)

the question is. what is that mark that we needed to meet to n

thank you for your patience

repent leads to faith.

faith leads to salvation

Salvation plus faith leads to works.

Yes, in Matt 19 Jesus says that.. His people DO obey.. it is the characteristics of his people. as apposed to saying it is the requirement of his people

yes he will judge..The living (those who are born again to life) and the dead (Those who are condemned)

in Matt 3. John the baptist is calling out pharisees who wanted to be baptised. He demanded they show works which proved they repented. or he would not baptize them. Much Like james called out people who claimed to have faith but had no works.

in luke. Amen, there is joy in heaven over 1 sinner who repents..

who are sinners? Paul says in romans 3 we have all sinned and fall short (miss the mark)

the question is. what is that mark that we needed to meet to not be considered a sinner?
We are all sinners in need of repentance. Missing the perfection of the Father is sin.
 

GRACE ambassador

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OK this isn't going round in round so I will answer what I believe.
"faith PLUS works," or "Grace Through faith Without works," For God's Eternal Salvation?

Since Both Are Scriptural, this is where God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided Solves all
the Confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), for me, anyway. Please Be Encouraged And Edified:

God's Previous Context of:

"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} Christ And The TWELVE, gospel of the kingdom,
ISRAEL [TWELVE tribes] prominent! {past/future} "faith PLUS [water] works"

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Current Context of His "Revelation" To ONE apostle, Paul:

"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Risen And Glorified Christ, Gospel Of GRACE,
Jew And Gentile "Equal!" In The ONE Body Of CHRIST, By ONE Baptism, The
ONE Holy Spirit's OPERATION!!
↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↓
{Current, Today!} "GRACE Through faith" Apart From ALL [our] works,
For God's Eternal Salvation/Assurance

"Things That Differ" are simply not the same (1 Corinthians 14:33), so:
Mixing [Present] GRACE and [past/future] works Never works! (Romans 11:6)

More on God's Three Tenses of Salvation is here:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)
!
 

Eternally Grateful

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We are all sinners in need of repentance. Missing the perfection of the Father is sin.
yes. We all have sinned and fall short

But what else did paul say there?

romans 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

see also in romans 6 where paul says this

. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the gift was paid for (redeemed) Christ on the cross.
 
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robert derrick

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Of course you will deny it. Paul said that works cancel out Grace.
I don't deny it. It's the gospel of grace and faith alone. It's just not the grace and gospel of God.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Eph. 2:8-9


What Paul is saying that works have nothing to do with salvation other than proving salvation.
The grace and gospel of unproven faith alone is not God's.


We are saved by Grace through faith, or we are not saved at all!
True.

The works come as a result of being saved by Grace through faith.
By which we are justified.

But this comes from the understanding of the New Covenant only taught by Paul.
Paul is not the only apostles of Jesus Christ preaching His gospel. James does too.

Twisting Paul to reject James is the false gospel of unproven faith alone.

No one is saved at all at any time by faith alone without works.

And you're never going to get salvation God's way until you understand that New Covenant that Paul taught.
I do. I also understand your own covenant you teach. I reject your's and believe Paul's, Jame's, Peter's, Jude's, etc...They are the one and same gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

robert derrick

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Of course you will deny it. Paul said that works cancel out Grace.
I don't deny it. It's the gospel of grace and faith alone. It's just not the grace and gospel of God.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Eph. 2:8-9


What Paul is saying that works have nothing to do with salvation other than proving salvation.
The grace and gospel of unproven faith alone is not God's.


We are saved by Grace through faith, or we are not saved at all!
True.

The works come as a result of being saved by Grace through faith.
By which we are justified.

But this comes from the understanding of the New Covenant only taught by Paul.
Paul is not the only apostles of Jesus Christ preaching His gospel. James does too.

Twisting Paul to reject James is the false gospel of unproven faith alone.

No one is saved at all at any time by faith alone without works.

And you're never going to get salvation God's way until you understand that New Covenant that Paul taught.
I do. I also understand your own covenant you teach. I reject your's and believe Paul's, Jame's, Peter's, Jude's, etc...They are the one and same gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

Charlie24

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I don't deny it. It's the gospel of grace and faith alone. It's just not the grace and gospel of God.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


The grace and gospel of unproven faith alone is not God's.



True.


By which we are justified.


Paul is not the only apostles of Jesus Christ preaching His gospel. James does too.

Twisting Paul to reject James is the false gospel of unproven faith alone.

No one is saved at all at any time by faith alone without works.


I do. I also understand your own covenant you teach. I reject your's and believe Paul's, Jame's, Peter's, Jude's, etc...They are the one and same gospel of Jesus Christ.

Nothing I can say will be accepted by you, That's why when I address you, I'm actually addressing those reading on in hopes that they will receive some understanding.
 
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robert derrick

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I have never taught that someone can be saved and have never done one righteous work. so you are a deceiver as well as a false teacher
You see. You just don't know your own gospel and doctrine. If anyone is decieved about it, it's because of taking you at your word, as you change it to fit the current argument.

You preach being saved by faith alone before doing any works at all, and then preach not being saved without doing righteous works.

Or perhaps you preach someone must do at least one righteous work, in order to prove being saved? Is that just once ofr life, or is there a frequency you have determined to continue proving salvation? Would that be once a day? Week? Month? Year? What determined amount of sinning do you make to prove being unsaved?

The Bible determination is doing righteousness at all times, and do no evil at any time.

What's the determined amount of your gospel?