Renewable Salvation
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)
If it’s not about ensuring your salvation, then what’s to fear and tremble about?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Work out (in the greek. it is a term used in a mining operation. where you work out the ore or the diamonds or whatever you are working out. It is already there. you are just getting it out so that you can use it for its value)
what is it we are mining. so we can use it? (our salvation) we are already saved
why? because we are light bearers!
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without [d]complaining and disputing,[e] 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Not so we can keep our salvation
what is it we are mining. so we can use it? (our salvation) we are already saved
why? because we are light bearers!
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without [d]complaining and disputing,[e] 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Not so we can keep our salvation
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
If the New Testament insults your carnal reasoning, just go to the Greek and come up with your own translation.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Miners fear and tremble about that?
I work out my job tasks at work every pay cycle to get paid, I don’t ever remember fearing and trembling about any paychecks…
There seems to be some confusion I'm getting. A person cannot save themselves with good works. But Jesus can. Does that make sense?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
there is a reason i do not respond to a certain person.
Some day he will take the hint
Some day he will take the hint
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
It’s because:
“…I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.” (Luke 21:15)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus good works on the cross?
Or jesus working through us to do works. like baptism, or serving the poor. or praying. etc etc?
sorry, just tryign to figure out what your saying and not "assume' anything. like so many people do
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
some people are so full of themselves they can't get out of their own way..
Yes we follow the Holy Spirit of God, which includes the Holy Spirit of Jesus. He leads us to living waters, doing good.
Jesus judges the souls of men. If a person is a rotten selfish person that doesn't honor God all their life, he desires to teach them to save them and lead them out of their sins. Why does he desire a sinner to repent if not to save them in the judgment?
On the other hand, if a person honors God and follows the Holy Spirit to do good works, how much happier will Jesus be with us?
I honestly don't want to commit and say who Jesus will save and who he will condemn. He will decide that. But for me I know what I have to do to invite the Holy Spirit into my life. I try and do the good works the Holy Spirit teaches me to do. He also expresses dissapointment when we sin. He does that thru the Holy Spirit. And we know that if we become the spiritual man the bible says we will be saved. And that spirit is God's Holy Spirit.
Seems like an easy concept.
I should also say this: When we help others and honor God, and when we get to know God and how loving he is, we grow in love for God and for others. We grow to love someone as we serve them. And we become more inline with the Spirit of God and obey the Royal Law to love God and love others. That is how we become the spiritual man that the bible spells out will be saved.
The bible has also spelled out works for us to follow so that we are not condemned. And sins to avoid that may condemn us.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I am filled with the Holy Ghost and speak the word of God with boldness!
“…they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.” (Acts 4:31)
“…be filled with the Spirit;” (Ephesians 5:18)
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Your Messianic version of the Bible states: One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
What part of disobeys don't you get Be?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
In Philippians 2:12, we are to "work out" our salvation and not work "for" our salvation. Works salvation is not being taught here in contradiction with Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9. The idea is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity in the process of ongoing sanctification. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. Paul goes on to say in verse 13, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
In regards to fear and trembling, Godly fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him is in view. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up or look for any excuse to cast me into hell. That is an unhealthy fear! Misery loves company.
This text is often misused to instill fear and bondage to insecurity into people, warning them that it means that they can lose salvation. What does it mean to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Paul can hardly be encouraging believers to live in a continuous condition of nervousness, anxiety and fear and bondage to insecurity. That would contradict his many other exhortations to peace of mind, courage, and confidence in the God who authors our salvation.
The Greek word translated "fear" in this context can equally mean "reverence" or "respect." Paul uses the same phrase in (2 Corinthians 7:15) where he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the Corinthians’ reception of him “with fear and trembling,” that is, with great humility and respect for his position as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in “weakness and fear, and with much trembling” (1 Corinthians 2:3), mindful of the great and awesome nature of the work in which he was engaged.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but I never heard of a person “fearing and trembling” over meeting his work out goals…
These guys like @mailmandan cannot hold a candle to the scriptures I quote to refute their ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED error so they resort to name calling.
Pathetic.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Your words are false.
Not if done by grace through faith of Jesus.
True. To become His sons justified from sinning by doing good.
We are justly delivered from God's condemnation, because we are saved from sinning. Being saved from wrath while not saved from sinning is the great hypocrisy of OSAS.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
If you teach any man not being condemned for committing sin and sacrilege against God, then you must teach no man is condemned, else your judgement and doctrine is hypocrisy.
Exactly, which is why we cannot be saved by faith alone, because we cannot be justified by faith alone.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
You teach being saved by faith alone, before being justified by works, because you teach there is faith alone, before works.
God's faith is always with works of faith.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Only man's imaginary faith is alone.
'Will work' in the future is faith alone without doing work now. Preaching faith without present works, is preaching faith alone now. You preach it, but don't want to say it.
And so now you do teach and say faith alone. Defending the indefensible is making you babble against yourself.
It's the confusion that comes from trying to justify ourselves and our false teaching, when confronted with Scripture of truth.
Semantics cannot rescue your preaching a false gospel of faith alone.
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
You contradict Scripture at every turn simply because you are teaching your own faith and mind and word alone, and have no care to be conformed to the written word of God.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
OSAS is vain imagination of faith alone and babblings about words without truth. You show here your own tower of babel by denying you teach being saved by faith alone, and then teach being saved by faith alone.
We are accountable for our teaching, whether helping Christians to do good, or evil. Having dead faith alone to be saved without condemnation, while doing unrighteous works of the flesh, is false teaching, that only increases to more ungodliness, while justifying ourselves by our own imaginary faith alone.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus did say who he would save and who he would not though
he who believes is not condemned
he who does not believe is condemned already, because they have not believed.
The apostle John said we can know we have eternal life.. and it is this knowledge that empowers us to continue to believe.
Have you thought of these words?
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