Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[Taken]

There are judgments of man by man = "those who destroy the earth" Rev 11:18

Those four horsemen are recorded in Zechariah 1:7-10
On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet: I saw by night, and behold, a man riding on a red horse, and it stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow; and behind him were horses: red, sorrel, and white.
Then I said, “My lord, what are these?” So the angel who talked with me said to me, “I will show you what they are.”
And the man who stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, “These are the ones whom the Lord has sent to walk to and fro throughout the earth.” = PRESENT Tense

Is the Fifth Seal a Judgment of God? i.e. His Wrath?

Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 7:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 16:
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Atarah]

Are you trying to say there are two gospels? There is only one gospel. One way for anyone, Jew or Gentile, to be saved. Christian Jews are NOT required to be circumcised. Where are you getting that from?

No! One gospel for all. However, Gentile believers are treated differently from Israeli (Jewish) believers as attested to in Acts 15. Israeli believers remain obligated to OT practices.

 

[ewq1938]

No! One gospel for all. However, Gentile believers are treated differently from Israeli (Jewish) believers as attested to in Acts 15. Israeli believers remain obligated to OT practices.

One cannot serve two masters (covenants).

 

[Atarah]

What does that have to do with anything? What 'one'? Read Acts 15. Is a Gentile believer required to be circumcised? No! Is a Jewish believer required to be circumcised? Yes! Can two people serve two different masters?
Has God abandoned those real Jews who do not yet believe in Yeshua? Romans 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!" It's because God has prevented them from seeing Yeshua as the Messiah and rejected Him that we, the Gentiles, can experience/enjoy God's favour.
What happens when the vale is lifted?

 

[David in NJ]

Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 7:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 16:
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

Rev:16-17 - God's Wrath = Does this come BEFORE the 5th Seal ???

Rev ch12 is a separate 'revealing' unto itself about Satan and the Overcomers
a.) God's Wrath not stated nor implied = Only satan's wrath which JESUS said we will suffer under = John 16:33 , Matt ch24

b.) Who are the Overcomers in chapter 12 ???

Rev ch16 - "the wrath of God upon the earth." = BINGO

 

[David in NJ]

What does that have to do with anything? What 'one'? Read Acts 15. Is a Gentile believer required to be circumcised? No! Is a Jewish believer required to be circumcised? Yes! Can two people serve two different masters?
Has God abandoned those real Jews who do not yet believe in Yeshua? Romans 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!" It's because God has prevented them from seeing Yeshua as the Messiah and rejected Him that we, the Gentiles, can experience/enjoy God's favour.
What happens when the vale is lifted?

God has not abandoned the Jews/Israel of the flesh = they abandoned their God and Savior and the only WAY to Eternal Life

Romans 10:1-3
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Anyone found in their own righteousness, whether it be Jew or Gentile, will not be accepted into HEAVEN, where MESSIAH is KING.

Colossians 1:9-14
For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 1hat you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no such thing as "the Gentile church". You are making things up to make scripture say what you want it to say. There is one church of Jesus Christ and it consists of both Jew and Gentile believers. There is neither Jew nor Gentile and we are all one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:26-29).

Ruth.
Read Ruth.
Read romans 9, 10, and 11
Are there Jews in that church?
Yes.
I am only a reporter.
Take it up with Jesus.
He is the word of God

 

[David in NJ]

Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 7:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 16:
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

God has ALWAYS been Judging the nations BEGINNING in Genesis and extending to Israel.

These Judgments are NOT the Day of the LORD.

The Day of the LORD is the Final Culmination of the Judgments of God that HE is reserving for the DAY of WRATH of the LAMB.

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks,
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Revelation 6:12-17 is DIRECT Prophecy and Connection to the Gospel
Here is just one: Luke 21:25-28
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
DIRECT Connection to Luke 21:25-28 and Rev 6:12-17
"wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

 

[Taken]

Rev:16-17 - God's Wrath = Does this come BEFORE the 5th Seal ???

No… 7 seals, 7 trumps, 7 vials, are in a chronicle order….Yet multiple things are occurring regarding…the Lamb of God the devil, God, angels, demons, saved & unsaved people.

Rev ch12 is a separate 'revealing' unto itself about Satan and the Overcomers
a.) God's Wrath not stated nor implied = Only satan's wrath which JESUS said we will suffer under = John 16:33 , Matt ch24

b.) Who are the Overcomers in chapter 12 ???

In brief…

Overcomers: are those WHO become …
Made “soul saved” & “spirit born again” while alive IN their flesh…BEFORE the trib…”by confession willingly giving their bodily life unto death…”crucified with Jesus”….called a “living sacrifice”…they called;
* Converted; IN Christ; Baptized in the Spirit; Born Again; Made WHOLE; Christ’s Church.
(Already accounted…Confessed to the Lord.
(Already accounted…perfected IN Christ.
(Already accounted…WITH Lord God 4-ever
(Already accounted…delivered
(Already accounted…Sanctified
(Already accounted…PREPARED…to be removed from the face of the Earth, (RATURE)…BEFORE Gods sanctioned tribulations and wrath from Heaven begin….

* During the Tribulation…Believers, (who believed, but DID NOT CONFESS their belief)…begin Confessing…and give their Living bodies willingly unto physical death FOR their belief…(Their deaths, VIA multiple means…weather disasters, wars, tyrants, devils, murders, starvation etc..)
They ALSO are “overcomers”….which simply means…freely chose Gods Order and Way and Offering to become WITH the Lord God forever.
THIS continues THROUGH…the 7 seals and seven trumps…
(Their “saved souls”….wait “under the altar”, and all together rise up to Heaven….and there WAIT, until the Trib, the 1,000 yr reign of Jesus…are finished and are part of the first resurrection.)

Once the 7th Trump has sounded…majority of believing men are are bodily dead. (A small remnant remains)…The anti-godly, and anti-Christs…and those who never chose anything…meet Gods avenging and Gods Wrath…and are then bodily dead…and their departed souls sent to hell to wait Judgement….they are the Last resurrection.

Rev ch16 - "the wrath of God upon the earth." = BINGO

THAT ^is primarily occurring during the Vials as each is poured out.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[dad]

God's Wrath is RESERVED for the Second Coming of Christ = the 6th Seal

It does say that: "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”"

Nothing about a reservation. If someone says that the day of wrath has come near the end of the tribulation, does that mean there was no wrath from God before that? Does that mean that all the death and horrors that come in the tribulation before the day Jesus returns don't count?

SAME here - wait to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

That would be hell, and for some, the tribulation, including the final vengeance of Christ. You cannot try to make that mean only one day or something.

SAME here - And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

That simply says Jesus will destroy the antichrist when He comes.

SAME here - to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The time when He returns and destroys the wicked is certainly wrath. That does not mean the rest of the seals and trumpets are blessing from God.

SAME here - But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

So probably at the rapture, then sudden destruction comes on the world. That has zero to do with making the seven years not wrath.

SAME here - And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

That is the time of the return of Christ. Nothing related to saying the seven years was a joy ride.

SAME here -
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

And MORE

The end of the age is when He returns. Not the rapture, and nothing at all, once again to do with your claim that the tribulation is not wrath from God.

 

[dad]

Is the Fifth Seal a Judgment of God? i.e. His Wrath?

How would it not be? Explain

 

[Taken]

God has ALWAYS been Judging the nations BEGINNING in Genesis and extending to Israel.

Sure… God absolutely has judged Nations and WHAT has been Gods ACTIONS?
God Has since the beginning been WITH men, who were WITH God…and when men LEFT, or Rejected God…God inturn LEFT or rejected the same men…according to Gods own Judgement…Leaving men to their own ideas, behaviors and consequences.

These Judgments are NOT the Day of the LORD.

The Day of the LORD is the Final Culmination of the Judgments of God that HE is reserving for the DAY of WRATH of the LAMB.

I do not view The Day of the LORD…as a single day or single event….RATHER…as THAT DAY…whereby the Lord God Personally by His POWER and AUTHORITY intervenes in events ON Earth, Often foretold in the OT, and comes into fruition via teaching nearing the End of Days on Earth as we have known them…(good and evil and wickedness) NT teaching and revealings.

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks,
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Yes…THAT DAY…is A DAY of the Lord…but there are more, than THAT DAY.
THAT DAY reveals the Lamb of Gods WRATH….so…why IS THE LAMB OF GOD ANGRY? REJECTION of Him and His Gift of Salvation!

How about when the Lord is reigning for 1,000 years…is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the Lord summons up to Him in the clouds Christ’s Church….is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the LORD avengers His is Mistreated believers…..is that not also a Day of the Lord?

Revelation 6:12-17 is DIRECT Prophecy and Connection to the Gospel
Here is just one: Luke 21:25-28
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
DIRECT Connection to Luke 21:25-28 and Rev 6:12-17
"wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

Look up….they will see…who is “they” ?
The ones left on the earth,,,alive believing, but not converted…?
The Raptured, are already delivered…redeemed, called up and WITH the Lord FOREVER…in bodies human eyes can not see….

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WHY…would any man MADE WHOLE…body, soul, spirit….BE on Earth suffering Gods authorized and sanctioned Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven upon the Earth?

 

[TribulationSigns]

SIMPLE - There is no wrath of God in the Seals UNTIL you get to the Sixth Seal

Agreed.

Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs = No wrath of God in seals 1-5​

9When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Agreed. The wrath of God did/will not start until all Saints have been secured (Revelation 7:1-4) and the fellow brethren are killed in God's eyes.

Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances = this is where the Wrath of God Begins​

12I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Agreed but first...but we need to consider this more carefully. First, who will the wrath of God be applied to here? Is it the unsaved world or His unfaithful congregation (eg. Babylon the Great, Revelation 18). The "kings of the earth, great men, rich men, etc" are the unfaithful people of His congregation. Please note that the passage does not say that they "know" they are being judged. Rather, it is BY THEIR EVIL ACTIONS they are calling God's judgment down upon THEMSLEVES. They weren't verbally calling mountains to fall on them. These passages symbolize they call God's judgment upon them. The mountain falling on them is the judgment of the kingdom of Christ, not the world. If you will please read Hosea 10:8, they called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN.

Mat 21:44-45
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Christ is the mountain that will fall upon His unfaithful New Testament congregation as judgment, just like He did with the unfaithful Old Testament congregation at the Cross, including the Chief Priests and Pharisees. This is WHY God calls His Elect to come out of the congregation which is now spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt (aka Babylon the Great) because she is judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins. So the Elect won't receive her plagues when it occurs, Revelation 18:4-5.

And one more thing, sorry, it won't be a "cosmic disturbance" if you believe this judgment will be a physical event. Nope.

 

[David in NJ]

Sure… God absolutely has judged Nations and WHAT has been Gods ACTIONS?
God Has since the beginning been WITH men, who were WITH God…and when men LEFT, or Rejected God…God inturn LEFT or rejected the same men…according to Gods own Judgement…Leaving men to their own ideas, behaviors and consequences.





I do not view The Day of the LORD…as a single day or single event….RATHER…as THAT DAY…whereby the Lord God Personally by His POWER and AUTHORITY intervenes in events ON Earth, Often foretold in the OT, and comes into fruition via teaching nearing the End of Days on Earth as we have known them…(good and evil and wickedness) NT teaching and revealings.



Yes…THAT DAY…is A DAY of the Lord…but there are more, than THAT DAY.
THAT DAY reveals the Lamb of Gods WRATH….so…why IS THE LAMB OF GOD ANGRY? REJECTION of Him and His Gift of Salvation!

How about when the Lord is reigning for 1,000 years…is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the Lord summons up to Him in the clouds Christ’s Church….is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the LORD avengers His is Mistreated believers…..is that not also a Day of the Lord?



Look up….they will see…who is “they” ?
The ones left on the earth,,,alive believing, but not converted…?
The Raptured, are already delivered…redeemed, called up and WITH the Lord FOREVER…in bodies human eyes can not see….

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WHY…would any man MADE WHOLE…body, soul, spirit….BE on Earth suffering Gods authorized and sanctioned Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven upon the Earth?

Yes…THAT DAY…is A DAY of the Lord…but there are more, than THAT DAY.
THAT DAY reveals the Lamb of Gods WRATH….so…why IS THE LAMB OF GOD ANGRY? REJECTION of Him and His Gift of Salvation!

How about when the Lord is reigning for 1,000 years…is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the Lord summons up to Him in the clouds Christ’s Church….is that not also a Day of the Lord?

How about when the LORD avengers His is Mistreated believers…..is that not also a Day of the Lord?

100% CORRECT and you are getting CLOSER to the PRECISE TRUTH of His Second Coming = the Day of the LORD BEGINS

 

[David in NJ]

No… 7 seals, 7 trumps, 7 vials, are in a chronicle order….Yet multiple things are occurring regarding…the Lamb of God the devil, God, angels, demons, saved & unsaved people.



In brief…

Overcomers: are those WHO become …
Made “soul saved” & “spirit born again” while alive IN their flesh…BEFORE the trib…”by confession willingly giving their bodily life unto death…”crucified with Jesus”….called a “living sacrifice”…they called;
* Converted; IN Christ; Baptized in the Spirit; Born Again; Made WHOLE; Christ’s Church.
(Already accounted…Confessed to the Lord.
(Already accounted…perfected IN Christ.
(Already accounted…WITH Lord God 4-ever
(Already accounted…delivered
(Already accounted…Sanctified
(Already accounted…PREPARED…to be removed from the face of the Earth, (RATURE)…BEFORE Gods sanctioned tribulations and wrath from Heaven begin….

* During the Tribulation…Believers, (who believed, but DID NOT CONFESS their belief)…begin Confessing…and give their Living bodies willingly unto physical death FOR their belief…(Their deaths, VIA multiple means…weather disasters, wars, tyrants, devils, murders, starvation etc..)
They ALSO are “overcomers”….which simply means…freely chose Gods Order and Way and Offering to become WITH the Lord God forever.
THIS continues THROUGH…the 7 seals and seven trumps…
(Their “saved souls”….wait “under the altar”, and all together rise up to Heaven….and there WAIT, until the Trib, the 1,000 yr reign of Jesus…are finished and are part of the first resurrection.)

Once the 7th Trump has sounded…majority of believing men are are bodily dead. (A small remnant remains)…The anti-godly, and anti-Christs…and those who never chose anything…meet Gods avenging and Gods Wrath…and are then bodily dead…and their departed souls sent to hell to wait Judgement….they are the Last resurrection.



THAT ^is primarily occurring during the Vials as each is poured out.

Glory to God,
Taken

7 seals, 7 trumps, 7 vials, are in a chronicle order….Yet multiple things are occurring regarding…the Lamb of God the devil, God, angels, demons, saved & unsaved people.

Fixed it for you

Yet multiple things are occurring regarding…the Lamb of God the devil, God, angels, demons, saved & unsaved people.

Absolutely correct just as Rev chapter 12 shows a separate revealing within Revelation.

Revelation has multiple revealings and multiple accounts of the Second Coming. = 6th Seal = Rev 19:117-21 Eze 39:17-29 Matt ch24:28

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

 

[David in NJ]

Nothing about a reservation. If someone says that the day of wrath has come near the end of the tribulation, does that mean there was no wrath from God before that? Does that mean that all the death and horrors that come in the tribulation before the day Jesus returns don't count?

That would be hell, and for some, the tribulation, including the final vengeance of Christ. You cannot try to make that mean only one day or something.

That simply says Jesus will destroy the antichrist when He comes.

The time when He returns and destroys the wicked is certainly wrath. That does not mean the rest of the seals and trumpets are blessing from God.

So probably at the rapture, then sudden destruction comes on the world. That has zero to do with making the seven years not wrath.

That is the time of the return of Christ. Nothing related to saying the seven years was a joy ride.

The end of the age is when He returns. Not the rapture, and nothing at all, once again to do with your claim that the tribulation is not wrath from God.

Return to Post 608 and examine Prophecy that JESUS quoted of His Second Coming in Post 615

 

[David in NJ]

How would it not be? Explain

It is IMPOSSIBLE for God's Wrath to be taking place PRIOR to the 6th Seal

Before i post the scriptures, stop and THINK Brother for you know the Truth concerning God's Wrath and us who are SAVED.

 

[David in NJ]

Agreed.



Agreed. The wrath of God did/will not start until all Saints have been secured (Revelation 7:1-4) and the fellow brethren are killed in God's eyes.



Agreed but first...but we need to consider this more carefully. First, who will the wrath of God be applied to here? Is it the unsaved world or His unfaithful congregation (eg. Babylon the Great, Revelation 18). The "kings of the earth, great men, rich men, etc" are the unfaithful people of His congregation. Please note that the passage does not say that they "know" they are being judged. Rather, it is BY THEIR EVIL ACTIONS they are calling God's judgment down upon THEMSLEVES. They weren't verbally calling mountains to fall on them. These passages symbolize they call God's judgment upon them. The mountain falling on them is the judgment of the kingdom of Christ, not the world. If you will please read Hosea 10:8, they called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN.

Mat 21:44-45
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Christ is the mountain that will fall upon His unfaithful New Testament congregation as judgment, just like He did with the unfaithful Old Testament congregation at the Cross, including the Chief Priests and Pharisees. This is WHY God calls His Elect to come out of the congregation which is now spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt (aka Babylon the Great) because she is judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins. So the Elect won't receive her plagues when it occurs, Revelation 18:4-5.

And one more thing, sorry, it won't be a "cosmic disturbance" if you believe this judgment will be a physical event. Nope.

Agreed. The wrath of God did/will not start until all Saints have been secured (Revelation 7:1-4) and the fellow brethren are killed in God's eyes.

My Brother in CHRIST JESUS our LORD - allow me to say HalleluYAH = someone is SEEING and is not correcting God

 

[David in NJ]

Agreed.



Agreed. The wrath of God did/will not start until all Saints have been secured (Revelation 7:1-4) and the fellow brethren are killed in God's eyes.



Agreed but first...but we need to consider this more carefully. First, who will the wrath of God be applied to here? Is it the unsaved world or His unfaithful congregation (eg. Babylon the Great, Revelation 18). The "kings of the earth, great men, rich men, etc" are the unfaithful people of His congregation. Please note that the passage does not say that they "know" they are being judged. Rather, it is BY THEIR EVIL ACTIONS they are calling God's judgment down upon THEMSLEVES. They weren't verbally calling mountains to fall on them. These passages symbolize they call God's judgment upon them. The mountain falling on them is the judgment of the kingdom of Christ, not the world. If you will please read Hosea 10:8, they called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN.

Mat 21:44-45
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Christ is the mountain that will fall upon His unfaithful New Testament congregation as judgment, just like He did with the unfaithful Old Testament congregation at the Cross, including the Chief Priests and Pharisees. This is WHY God calls His Elect to come out of the congregation which is now spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt (aka Babylon the Great) because she is judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins. So the Elect won't receive her plagues when it occurs, Revelation 18:4-5.

And one more thing, sorry, it won't be a "cosmic disturbance" if you believe this judgment will be a physical event. Nope.

Agreed but first...but we need to consider this more carefully. First, who will the wrath of God be applied to here? Is it the unsaved world or His unfaithful congregation (eg. Babylon the Great, Revelation 18). The "kings of the earth, great men, rich men, etc" are the unfaithful people of His congregation. Please note that the passage does not say that they "know" they are being judged. Rather, it is BY THEIR EVIL ACTIONS they are calling God's judgment down upon THEMSLEVES. They weren't verbally calling mountains to fall on them. These passages symbolize they call God's judgment upon them. The mountain falling on them is the judgment of the kingdom of Christ, not the world. If you will please read Hosea 10:8, they called it upon themselves BY THEIR SIN.

Mat 21:44-45
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Christ is the mountain that will fall upon His unfaithful New Testament congregation as judgment, just like He did with the unfaithful Old Testament congregation at the Cross, including the Chief Priests and Pharisees. This is WHY God calls His Elect to come out of the congregation which is now spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt (aka Babylon the Great) because she is judged as a mountain falling upon her for her sins. So the Elect won't receive her plagues when it occurs, Revelation 18:4-5.

LOVE IT Brother - keep on KEEPING ON the PATH of TRUTH

 

[David in NJ]

Agreed.



Agreed. The wrath of God did/will not start until all Saints have been secured (Revelation 7:1-4) and the fellow brethren are killed in God's eyes.


And one more thing, sorry, it won't be a "cosmic disturbance" if you believe this judgment will be a physical event. Nope.

And one more thing, sorry, it won't be a "cosmic disturbance" if you believe this judgment will be a physical event. Nope.

Except for this little blemish above...............

And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, Luke ch21

Luke ch21 and Acts 2:17-21 is another (of many many) scriptures that cancels any pre-trib rapture falsehood

17‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’