Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[ewq1938]

Typical wild assumption!
Your and every other verse which Prophesies immortality, do not say when immortality will come.
We know that from Revelation 20:11-15; when the Book of Life is opened; at the end of Gods decreed 7000 years allotted to physical mankind.

The glorious Return of Jesus in not at the Last Trump. That comes when all the dead are raised, to stand before God in Judgment.
Rev 20:11-15

When is all things subdued to Himself?
1 Cor 15:24.......when Jesus hands the Kingdom back to God, AFTER He has reigned for a thousand years.

Do not be so thick, as to think that Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and then immediately turns around and hands the Kingdom back to God the Father.

I have already proven immortality occurs when Christ returns. I'll repost the scriptures you ignored:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

The word "incorruption" here is the same exact word "immortality" in 1Co 15:53 which proves when the saved dead resurrect, they are immortal. This happens just before the rapture of 4:17.

 

[Keraz]

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

No mention of immortality there.
Just the martyrs of the GT, who Jesus will bring their souls with Him and raise them back to mortal life.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

At the GWT Judgment, after the thousand years is over. Revelation 20:5

I have already proven immortality occurs when Christ returns.

You failed to prove it.
Some people have the way out idea that itallhappensatthereturn. A belief that is simply impossible because Jesus must reign until all enemies are put under His feet, That is: destroyed and annihilated. Which will finally happen as Revelation 20:7-10 vividly describe.

 

[Douggg]

The word "incorruption" here is the same exact word "immortality" in 1Co 15:53 which proves when the saved dead resurrect, they are immortal. This happens just before the rapture of 4:17.

I agree. Both the dead in Christ and the living in Christ will be changed to immortality at the time of the rapture/resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

At the GWT Judgment, after the thousand years is over. Revelation 20:5

The resurrection of the dead for the GWT judgment is all of the rest dead - i.e. the unsaved and Christians who did not take part in either the rapture/resurrection event nor in the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs.

The rapture/resurrection event of 1Thesslalonians 4:15-18 is just for Christians - not the unsaved.

 

[Keraz]

The resurrection of the dead for the GWT judgment is all of the rest dead - i.e. the unsaved and Christians who did not take part in either the rapture/resurrection event nor in the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs.

Everyone who has ever lived and is alive at the end of the Millennium, will stand before God in Judgment,
Any ideas other than this truth, is a corruption of the text and an addition to Revelation. Very bad.

The rapture/resurrection event of 1Thesslalonians 4:15-18 is just for Christians - not the unsaved.

The Prophecy of Pauls, never mentions any body changes. You have made that up. More bad for you.

 

[Douggg]

Everyone who has ever lived and is alive at the end of the Millennium, will stand before God in Judgment,

keras, that is not what it says in Revelation 20:11-14.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No mention of immortality there.
Just the martyrs of the GT, who Jesus will bring their souls with Him and raise them back to mortal life.

You interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that can't be supported with any other scripture. Nowhere does scripture say that anyone will be bodily resurrected back to mortal life in the future. That is ludicrous. Why would that even happen? You can't support that theory with scripture. Scripture talks about the dead in Christ being resurrected and changed to have immortal bodies. You create doctrines that you have all to yourself and aren't taught anywhere in scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Prophecy of Pauls, never mentions any body changes. You have made that up. More bad for you.

This isn't made up:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

What else could Paul be talking about except the change of our bodies here? He had just before that talked about the difference between a natural body and a spiritual body and so on, so the context of this passage is clearly in relation to our bodies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The resurrection of the dead for the GWT judgment is all of the rest dead - i.e. the unsaved and Christians who did not take part in either the rapture/resurrection event nor in the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs.

The rapture/resurrection event of 1Thesslalonians 4:15-18 is just for Christians - not the unsaved.

Jesus said that the saved and lost will be resurrected at the same hour. Do you think He was mistaken?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus said that the saved and lost will be resurrected at the same hour. Do you think He was mistaken?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The rest of the dead, i.e. them who did not take part, in neither the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs, nor in the rapture/resurrection event - will be resurrected for the GWT judgment in Revelation 20:11-14.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The rest of the dead, i.e. them who did not take part, in neither the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs, nor in the rapture/resurrection event - will be resurrected for the GWT judgment in Revelation 20:11-14.

So, you apparently just ignore passages like 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and John 5:28-29 when it comes to the resurrection of the dead then. Looks like you'd rather cherry pick scripture and make it say what you want it to say than look at all of scripture to see what it teaches about the resurrection of the dead. I ask you a question about John 5:28-29 and you don't even want to answer it. It's not surprising that you'd want to ignore that passage.

 

[Taken]

The rest of the dead, i.e. them who did not take part, in neither the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs, nor in the rapture/resurrection event - will be resurrected for the GWT judgment in Revelation 20:11-14.

Douggg ~ you can not convince another of the Truth, when they IGNORE the facts clearly revealed in scriptural Knowledge.

The WHOLE earth and it’s inhabitants shall experience the last days tribulations…
Believers, Non-Believers….experiencing Wrath sent down from Heaven…
* WHILE those “IN” Christ, SHALL be lifted up above the Earth…
============BECAUSE===========
They ARE Sav-ED, ed…past tense…accomplished, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit….
And clearly…NOT subject to Wrath!
Comparatively to the World’s Population…
They IN Christ will number significantly less…

Remembering …. Noah, his family, 8 people total of maybe one or two million people…
Were Sav-ed…
============BECAUSE===========
THEY LIKE those IN Christ “PREPARED” according to Gods Order and Way…

And were Lifted UP above the Earth…above the mountain peaks…to ESCAPE the Tribulation, Wrath, Destruction, upon the face of the Earth, send down from Heaven.
(Think they were IN the Clouds? I do. )

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Gen 7:
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Douggg]

So, you apparently just ignore passages like 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and John 5:28-29 when it comes to the resurrection of the dead then. Looks like you'd rather cherry pick scripture and make it say what you want it to say than look at all of scripture to see what it teaches about the resurrection of the dead. I ask you a question about John 5:28-29 and you don't even want to answer it. It's not surprising that you'd want to ignore that passage.

I did explain John 5:28-29 in my post #230. Those two verses are referring to the resurrection of the (rest of the) dead for the GWT judgment in Revelation 20:11-14.

What you are ignoring is that 1Thessalonians4:15-18 is for Christians only. What happens in 1Thessaonians4:17.... that part I underlined ?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

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Don't give me your.....LOL you'd rather cherry pick scripture and make it say what you want it to say, no one can take you seriously.... speech.

I think you must be undergoing training at Amil Academy. I wish they would teach you how to make some timeline charts. Instead of the same ol' monotonous canned responses.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg ~ you can not convince another of the Truth, when they IGNORE the facts clearly revealed in scriptural Knowledge.

The WHOLE earth and it’s inhabitants shall experience the last days tribulations…
Believers, Non-Believers….experiencing Wrath sent down from Heaven…
* WHILE those “IN” Christ, SHALL be lifted up above the Earth…
============BECAUSE===========
They ARE Sav-ED, ed…past tense…accomplished, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit….
And clearly…NOT subject to Wrath!
Comparatively to the World’s Population…
They IN Christ will number significantly less…

I agree.

 

[Keraz]

keras, that is not what it says in Revelation 20:11-14.

Rev 20:12 I saw the dead, small and great standing before God......
Who do you think gets to avoid this?

If people have the fanciful idea of a rapture/ resurrection before the end of the Millennium, that belief must be fully supported by scriptures.
And show how it is possible before the Book of Life is opened.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 20:12 I saw the dead, small and great standing before God......
Who do you think gets to avoid this?

Those who take part in the Christians only rapture/resurrection event. And those who take part in the martyred great tribulation saints resurrected at the early stages of the millennium.

If people have the fanciful idea of a rapture/ resurrection before the end of the Millennium, that belief must be fully supported by scriptures.
And show how it is possible before the Book of Life is opened.

keras, many posters have already shown that rapture/resurrection event is before God's wrath is poured out during the great tribulation.

In the 1Thessalonians4:15-18 verses, there is no standing before the GWT judgement. Those verses are exclusively for Christians, who will avoid the great tribulation, as well as receive their eternal incorruptible bodies, and as it says in verse 17....

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What kind of bodies to you think the Christians in 1Thessalonains4:15-18 will be resurrected in and caught up in, to ever be with the Lord - i.e. eternity ?

 

[ewq1938]

No mention of immortality there.
Just the martyrs of the GT, who Jesus will bring their souls with Him and raise them back to mortal life.

At the GWT Judgment, after the thousand years is over. Revelation 20:5

No, when the dead in Christ rise first which you claimed wasn't related to immortality but it very much is.

The bible promises immortality when the dead are resurrected and the dead are resurrected at the second coming and rapture not 1000 years after them as you teach.

You failed to prove it.
Some people have the way out idea that itallhappensatthereturn. A belief that is simply impossible because Jesus must reign until all enemies are put under His feet, That is: destroyed and annihilated.

This is a red herring fallacy which attempts to confuse the topic by introducing another topic. The topic is when immortality occurs and the bible says it is at the resurrection of the dead and the rapture and those happen at the second coming.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 20:12 I saw the dead, small and great standing before God......
Who do you think gets to avoid this?

Those who are not dead obviously. All the saved are very much alive not dead at this GWTJ.

 

[Keraz]

Those who take part in the Christians only rapture/resurrection event. And those who take part in the martyred great tribulation saints resurrected at the early stages of the millennium.

A rapture/ resurrection event is never said to happen, It is a false teaching, with no scriptural support.
The martyrs of the GT, have their souls brought back from heaven and are brought back to mortal life at the Return, No one else. Rev 20:5

keras, many posters have already shown that rapture/resurrection event is before God's wrath is poured out during the great tribulation.

I have yet to see any scriptural proof of such a fanciful notion.
1 Thess 4:15-17 is describing a transportation from where His people are to where He will be- Jerusalem. Proved by Matthew 24:31

What kind of bodies to you think the Christians in 1Thessalonains4:15-18 will be resurrected in and caught up in, to ever be with the Lord - i.e. eternity ?

Humans will remain in mortal bodies until after the GWT Judgment and the new heaven and earth come.
The incident with Philip; transported in his physical body; Acts 8:39, is the example for us.

 

[Keraz]

No, when the dead in Christ rise first which you claimed wasn't related to immortality but it very much is.

Unsupported opinion is worthless.

The bible promises immortality when the dead are resurrected and the dead are resurrected at the second coming and rapture not 1000 years after them as you teach.

I teach what the Bible plainly states. Rev 20:5 says: The rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years is over.

This is a red herring fallacy which attempts to confuse the topic by introducing another topic. The topic is when immortality occurs and the bible says it is at the resurrection of the dead and the rapture and those happen at the second coming.

The fact that Jesus must reign until His enemies are made His footstool, is Bible truth.
When immortality occurs, is after all enemies are disposed of. AFTER the final battle, at the end of the Millennium, - Revelation 20:7-10

Those who are not dead obviously. All the saved are very much alive not dead at this GWTJ.

Pauls amazing Prophecy of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, tells us - there will be faithful Christian alive at the end of the Millennium. Their names will be found in the Book of Life and they will never experience death, being instantly transformed into Eternal Spiritual beings.
The dead faithful people from Abel right thru to the end of Gods 7000 decreed time for mankind, will be given immortality then and will live in the new Jerusalem for Eternity.

The unfaithful dead, from Cain to those people who join Satan's army after he is released, Rev 20:3b, Rev 20:10a, will be annihilated* and be remembered no more.
* Rev 20:15 does say they will be flung into the Lake of Fire, but I reject that because eternal torture is inconsistent with a loving God and they are erased from the Book of Life; that is from consciousness.