Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's not the point. Differing on the rapture is one thing, but you have turned it into a salvation issue which it is not.

I agree. As much as I disagree with the pre-trib rapture theory, I would never try to say that one's salvation is dependent on their beliefs regarding the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation (most people don't even agree on what "the tribulation" is). That's just going way too far.

 

[Johann]

That, combined with a lack of critical reasoning.

Much love!

Amen marks.
Johannn

 

[marks]

Is the Holy Spirit then telling me to disregard what is written?

So for example . . . some will say that the sheep/goats judgment is the same as the great white throne judgment, however, the timing is not allowed in that prophecy. So they ignore the timing. Or some call it a parable, but that ignores the prophetic narrative. I mean, does anyone take Jesus' coming in power and glory to be just parable?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So for example . . . some will say that the sheep/goats judgment is the same as the great white throne judgment,

You mean some, like me? ;)

however, the timing is not allowed in that prophecy.

Sure, it is. Why not?

So they ignore the timing.

Who are "they"? I certainly don't ignore the timing.

Or some call it a parable, but that ignores the prophetic narrative.

Calling it a parable, which would imply that it's not representing an actual event and is instead a made up story that gives insight into a spiritual reality, would fit the idea of disregarding what is written. And that is the case because, while it's obviously not talking about literal sheep and goats, it is talking about being judged according to things people do (or don't do). And that lines up with other scripture that talks about people being judged according to what they have done (see Romans 14:10-12, for example).

I mean, does anyone take Jesus' coming in power and glory to be just parable?

I would hope not.

 

[David in NJ]

So for example . . . some will say that the sheep/goats judgment is the same as the great white throne judgment, however, the timing is not allowed in that prophecy. So they ignore the timing. Or some call it a parable, but that ignores the prophetic narrative. I mean, does anyone take Jesus' coming in power and glory to be just parable?

Much love!

Here is your first evidence to know that pre-trib rapture is not truth = 'timing'

The entire Scriptures only speak of 2 Comings of the LORD to earth:
#1 - His First Coming as prophesied = Suffering Servant to bear our sins/Jonah 3 days buried then Resurrection

#2 - His Second Coming = Story of Joseph and Prophet Daniel include His 1st and 2nd Coming and Zech ch14 His Second Coming

NT Gospel, Apostle writings and Revelation only speak of His 1st and 2nd Coming

Anyone who says other does so of their own volition for it is a 'man-made' doctrine = i am being kind here.....

Just as the Jew has a covering over their minds whenever the Scriptures are read, so also does a person who believes in pre-trib rapture.

That covering was placed there by 'falsehood' and because the heart believes it to be true, the mind cannot/will not accept the actual Truth.

 

[Davy]

Well it does take careful looking at passages, but the Scriptures do state that the rapture will occur before the 70th week of Daniel which we commonly call the tribulation.

No it doesn't. You're misrepresenting God's written Word too in favor of the FALSE pre-trib rapture theory from 'man'.

The 70th week of Daniel 9:27 is a period of 7 years, divided in the middle, with the latter half being 1260 days, the SAME period of Revelation 11 when God's two witnesses prophesy against the beast during the tribulation at the end. Jesus does NOT come until AFTER that latter half of 1260 days to gather His Church. And we 'know' this for certain because He showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that He comes AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints.

 

[Davy]

You are making connections where there aren't any.
The rapture when it happens whether pre- mid- or post- will look nothing like the antichrist.

What in the world does that mean, "look nothing like the antichrist?" Do you mean you think when the Antichrist comes that his gathering of the spiritually dead carcases so his fowls can feast won't do it supernaturally? He probably won't have to use a miracle to pull that off with the deceived; they will readily FLY to him thinking he is The Christ. Their pre-trib preachers will tell their congregations that's Jesus!

Did you know that God is against those preachers who teach His people to 'fly' to save their souls? (Ezekiel 13)

When the antichrist recieves power he will be standing on the earth. When the rapture happens we will join Christ in the clouds. Those two events don't look anything like eachother it is impossible to confuse one with the other to the point that even a child would know the difference.

You still don't understand the Scripture, but are just regurgitating what the pre-trib rapture preachers have taught you to think. Lord Jesus and His Apostles showed that the Antichrist is coming FIRST, prior... to Jesus' coming to gather His Church. Apostle Paul even directly warned about that order in 2 Thessalonians 2!

So there ain't NO RAPTURE prior the coming of the Antichrist; nor prior to the "great tribulation".

Apostle Paul taught the 'change' to the "spiritual body" will happen on the "last trump", which means the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11 which will END the tribulation.

 

[Davy]

Scripture no where states exactly when the rapture will occur. Many equate the rapture with the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24, however, that causes too many conflicts with other Scriptures.

Nah... you're going on what those false pre-trib rapture preachers keep saying, that no one knows the day or hour of Christ's coming, i.e. the Imminent or "any moment" theory. We don't know the day or the hour, like Lord Jesus said, but He gave us the Signs of the end to be WATCHING leading up to the day of His coming, and that's the difference.

And Christ's Olivet discourse is where He gave those SIGNS of the end that those in Christ are supposed to BE WATCHING, all the way up to the day of His coming. So how CRAZY are those fake pre-trib rapture preachers by just casting make-believe up in the air by saying things like, "just be ready, Jesus can come at any moment!" Well no, not what He showed us in His Word, because 'certain events' MUST happen first before He will come. And you would know what those events are IF... you had paid attention to HIM in His Word, instead of falling into traps by workers of the devil that speak nice, dress nice, and just show loads of love, while they choke your spirit secretly with preparing you to fall away to the false-Messiah that comes first.

I noticed in your post you just JUMPED to Matthew 25, and skipped the Matthew 24 chapter, which is blatant disregard for the warnings Lord Jesus gave His Church for the end of this world.

 

[teamventure]

What in the world does that mean, "look nothing like the antichrist?" Do you mean you think when the Antichrist comes that his gathering of the spiritually dead carcases so his fowls can feast won't do it supernaturally? He probably won't have to use a miracle to pull that off with the deceived; they will readily FLY to him thinking he is The Christ. Their pre-trib preachers will tell their congregations that's Jesus!

Did you know that God is against those preachers who teach His people to 'fly' to save their souls? (Ezekiel 13)



You still don't understand the Scripture, but are just regurgitating what the pre-trib rapture preachers have taught you to think. Lord Jesus and His Apostles showed that the Antichrist is coming FIRST, prior... to Jesus' coming to gather His Church. Apostle Paul even directly warned about that order in 2 Thessalonians 2!

So there ain't NO RAPTURE prior the coming of the Antichrist; nor prior to the "great tribulation".

Apostle Paul taught the 'change' to the "spiritual body" will happen on the "last trump", which means the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11 which will END the tribulation.

The decieved will follow the antichrist but not the Lords sheep who know his voice.

You need to face the fact that equating belief in a pre-trib rapture with one day falling for the antichrist is intellectually dishonest.

Oh and that passage in Ezekiel is about divination not belief in a pre-trib rapture.

 

[Davy]

What is the wrath this verse is speaking of?

John 3:36 KJV
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Much love!

That 'wrath' of 1 Thessalonians 1:10 is the same "wrath" of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 which Apostle Paul pointed to. It is GOD's WRATH upon the wicked and deceived on the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus returns to gather His faithful Church.

 

[Davy]

You are making connections where there aren't any.
The rapture when it happens whether pre- mid- or post- will look nothing like the antichrist.
When the antichrist recieves power he will be standing on the earth. When the rapture happens we will join Christ in the clouds. Those two events don't look anything like eachother it is impossible to confuse one with the other to the point that even a child would know the difference.

I'm not creating connections, as you say. I am simply DECLARING what Lord Jesus taught via His servant John in His Book of Revelation.

Did you NOT know that the "dragon" title is just another name for Satan himself?

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


That "dragon" title did NOT change to someone else when we come to the Rev.13 chapter.

Rev 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

That means 'they' literally will worship Satan. Did you not know about Occultists today who literally worship Lucifer? Those are Satan's servants here on earth. Just like Lord Jesus has His elect, so does Satan have his own that serve him here on earth. That "they" means the deceived also with them, that will literally worship Satan when he arrives in Jerusalem to play Jesus Christ. But those deceived will simply not know that is Satan.

In other words, Satan as the coming Antichrist is not coming as his old known self; he is coming to work miracles in order to deceive the whole world (as per Rev.13:11 forward). And per God's parable in Ezekiel 28, God said He made him the full pattern; he is a beautiful angel.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

That above prophecy is also in Daniel 7 about what the "little horn" will do, having come up among the ten horns.


7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That war against the saints is also written in Daniel 7 about that coming "little horn", the Antichrist, or pseudo-Christ.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
KJV

That in red is very simple. The WHOLE WORLD will worship the "dragon", EXCEPT those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Who is that then, with their names written? Christ's very elect 'chosen' ones that CANNOT be deceived.

 

[Davy]

The truth is the core principles of the gospel. Differing on the rapture is not the same issue. The strong delusion will go towards those who reject Jesus, not those who have a wrong timing of the rapture. Once again you are reaching.

We are saved by The Gospel, but we are tested by Satan.

The "strong delusion" is about the DECEIVED who fall away 'unknowingly' to the false-Christ.

I have to remind you once again, the phrase Lord Jesus used for the Antichrist that is coming to Jerusalem to place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new temple there, He called a pseudo-Christ. And the difference with His warning of Matthew 24:23-26 about that false one is that he will work ACTUAL SUPERNATURAL signs and wonders in the sight of men, and not simply only 'claim' to be The Christ like many men have done through history, but couldn't escape out of a wet paper bag.

Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

 

[teamventure]

I'm not creating connections, as you say. I am simply DECLARING what Lord Jesus taught via His servant John in His Book of Revelation.

Did you NOT know that the "dragon" title is just another name for Satan himself?

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


That "dragon" title did NOT change to someone else when we come to the Rev.13 chapter.

Rev 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

That means 'they' literally will worship Satan. Did you not know about Occultists today who literally worship Lucifer? Those are Satan's servants here on earth. Just like Lord Jesus has His elect, so does Satan have his own that serve him here on earth. That "they" means the deceived also with them, that will literally worship Satan when he arrives in Jerusalem to play Jesus Christ. But those deceived will simply not know that is Satan.

In other words, Satan as the coming Antichrist is not coming as his old known self; he is coming to work miracles in order to deceive the whole world (as per Rev.13:11 forward). And per God's parable in Ezekiel 28, God said He made him the full pattern; he is a beautiful angel.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

That above prophecy is also in Daniel 7 about what the "little horn" will do, having come up among the ten horns.


7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That war against the saints is also written in Daniel 7 about that coming "little horn", the Antichrist, or pseudo-Christ.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
KJV

That in red is very simple. The WHOLE WORLD will worship the "dragon", EXCEPT those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Who is that then, with their names written? Christ's very elect 'chosen' ones that CANNOT be deceived.

Those who's names are written in the book of life won't worship the beast by believing in the pre-trib rapture.

 

[teamventure]

We are saved by The Gospel, but we are tested by Satan.

The "strong delusion" is about the DECEIVED who fall away 'unknowingly' to the false-Christ.

I have to remind you once again, the phrase Lord Jesus used for the Antichrist that is coming to Jerusalem to place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new temple there, He called a pseudo-Christ. And the difference with His warning of Matthew 24:23-26 about that false one is that he will work ACTUAL SUPERNATURAL signs and wonders in the sight of men, and not simply only 'claim' to be The Christ like many men have done through history, but couldn't escape out of a wet paper bag.

Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

Which has nothing to do with believing a pre-trib rapture.

 

[Davy]

That's not the point. Differing on the rapture is one thing, but you have turned it into a salvation issue which it is not.

2 Corinthians 11 about being presented to Christ as "a chaste virgin". You need to read that.

Isaiah 54 about 'blessed are the barren', which Jesus repeated to the crying Jewish women on His way to be crucified.

GOD is sending this coming pseudo-Christ first that will work supernatural miracles, right here on earth, in plain sight. It is to be a test upon those who disregard the Truth of His Word, and instead heed other things, particularly those who misplace their trust in men's doctrines instead of His written Word.

In the Isaiah 54 parable, God 'spiritually' used the idea of a barren womb for one who remains a faithful "chaste virgin" waiting on His return. For those who don't wait, but fall to the false one that comes first, they will not... be found by Christ as a chaste virgin, but as a spiritual harlot. That is the actual idea of the parable which God gave there. I'm not making this up.

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.

28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children."
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, "Fall on us"; and to the hills, "Cover us."
KJV

The day will come when those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say, "Blessed are the barren,..." It will be because only those who remained as "a chaste virgin" waiting on Christ's return will not be in shame. This is why in the 30th verse those daughters of Jerusalem will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them, because of their shame when Jesus returns.

Lord Jesus warned about that shame too in the Revelation 16:15 verse where He said He comes "as a thief".

So don't... try and tell me what one believes about the events leading up to our Lord Jesus' coming don't matter. That kind of thinking is hogwash, and guarantees deception.

 

[Davy]

Those who's names are written in the book of life won't worship the beast by believing in the pre-trib rapture.

Stay on that false pre-trib rapture theory then, and find out the hard way. I tried to warn you, but you wouldn't listen to the Scriptures I showed you.

 

[Davy]

Those who's names are written in the book of life won't worship the beast by believing in the pre-trib rapture.

The names of the deceived are not written, otherwise they would not be able to be deceived.

Listen to Christ...

Matt 24:23-24
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

That "if it were possible" phrase Jesus used means it ain't... possible for His "very elect" to be deceived.

Do you recall in Matthew 13 when His disciples asked Him why He spoke to the multitudes in parables, and He said it was given for His Apostles to know the 'mysteries of the kingdom of heaven', but to the multitudes, it is NOT given?

Per Jesus' parable of the ten virgins we also know there will be a Christian group that will be deceived known as the five foolish virgins. He will shut the door on those when He comes.

 

[Davy]

Which has nothing to do with believing a pre-trib rapture.

Sure it does, because if you are NOT found still "a chaste virgin" when Jesus returns to gather His, then it will mean you worshiped another in His place. He won't be happy with you. And that is what Lucifer's pre-trib rapture theory is designed to do to a believer.

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Oh and that passage in Ezekiel is about divination not belief in a pre-trib rapture.

That is exactly... what those pre-trib rapture preachers are doing per Ezekiel 13, divination by saying, "God said...", and He DID NOT SAY.

Ezek 13:1-6
13 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, "The LORD saith": and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
KJV


The "house of Israel" today is scattered among the Gentiles, particularly in the Christian West where they mainly migrated to, and became the founders of the western Christian nations. So this is about US.

That "day of the Lord" connection is about the last day when Jesus comes to fight the nations that will come up against Jerusalem on that day, per Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16 on the 7th Vial.

That means this Ezekiel 13 prophecy is about the 'end', our times.

 

[Davy]

Ezek 13:7-9
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, "The LORD saith it"; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
KJV

That will be a very sad day for those false prophets among God's people; do you remember the five foolish virgins of Matthew 25?

And don't go trying to use the excuse to not heed this Ezekiel 13 chapter for our times today just because it's in the Old Testament, because the Books of God's prophets still have much prophecy yet to come to pass. Even the last 9 chapters of Ezekiel is for after Christ's future return.

Ezek 13:17-23
17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV