OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Eternally Grateful]

What do you mean by "interpret". There is nothing to interpret.

Do you believe what Jesus said here?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus says if anyone does not remain in Him...

John instructs us how to remain in Christ -

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Do you have trouble with keeping His commandments. Do you believe that maybe you are excluded from these instructions?

His commandments are about love; loving God and loving people.

If we claim to know Him and do not keep His commandments we are liars and the truth is not in us.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Christians who lie, and hate and are sexually immoral, and are idolaters and such will be cast into the lake of fire.


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Fire. Cast into the fire and burned.

• they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6




JLB

Dude. You are getting old

1. Abide in him, John 15 is about producing fruit. it is not about being saved or keeping your salvation. Gods children WILL produce fruit. For those who claim to be a branch and do not produce fruit (because they are not saved, like Judas, who Jesus spoke to in this setting) They will be cut off.. and thrown into the fire..

2. He who says I know him and does not keep his commands. Amen, THEY ARE NOT SAVED, THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN SAVED.. Why do you DOUBT Gods power to change people? They did not lose salvation. THEY NEVER HAD IT

3. so I guess King david will be thrown into the lake of fire. he commited adultry and murder..

get real dude. A child of God CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN.. John said it will you believe him?

Stop trying to use John 15 to support your self rightious pharisee gospel of works.. You have been thoroughly refuted.. If you want to keep blind to what it really says, at lease those looking at this thread has seen you do not know what you are discussing..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Therein lies the problem... lots of folks have been indoctrinated to only accept
a handful of scripture passages and then throw the rest of the Bible in the trash.

Yes, You and JLB are masters at this, Pick and pull passages and small verses out of context and ignore the rest of the word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unfortunately you are correct.


His Spirit is given to us to empower us to walk according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the sinful desires of our flesh.




JLB

Yet you are @Dan Clarkston Do not believe in the power of God to change lives. You claim God can fail..

so unfoirtunately. you both are looking to self and not god..

Stop boasting and seek God..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Disingenuous on your end--

Paul speaks of Jesus' human lineage (descended from David) and His divine sonship (declared to be the Son of God).
1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Was going to respond till I saw this--how you neatly twist the Scriptures.
J.

watching @face2face and @Christian Soldier is like watching a comedy on the evening tube.

its funny as they go at each other not understanding they are both in error

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Please point out the error in this post.



If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Judas was cast out. the non believer.. Many people come to our churches, and claim to be a disciple. but they are not. we will know them by their furits.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Jesus true children keep his commands..

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the power of God to change people? Why are you so self focused?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@face2face and @Johann The trinity is a banned topic. I would be careful.. And if anyone does not believe Jesus is God, I would be more careful.. Just saying

 

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan I am sure you are reading this with the same disbelief I am - imagine mailman how far the OSAS doctrine has gone in Christian and the degree of blinders they must have. Imagine what else they are missing?

This is the very danger with this belief!

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

You must know the Gospel first before you can decide not to obey, whether this is in the beginning, middle or end of life!! For Judas he walked with Christ for over three years before he made his choice and the others made theirs.

Staggering to see these comments and I am sure these are not standard OSAS beliefs...maybe an extreme version I think

F2F

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

 

[Johann]

@face2face and @Johann The trinity is a banned topic. I would be careful.. And if anyone does not believe Jesus is God, I would be more careful.. Just saying

I'm aware of it brother, no engagement from my end on the topic.

 

[mailmandan]

Once again you manage not to overstep your line, which of course we know is not God's line. The red text is interesting as once again you can somehow discern the difference between those believers who give mere lip service, to those who are sincere.

How do you do this?

How does the holder of OSAS know if they are one, or the other, if both believe in OSAS? Effectively what you are saying is OSAS will help one but not the other.

Your method of exegesis allows you to place boundaries on the Word of God, which may, or may not be His boundaries.

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

This is how I see OSAS -

You and I are in the Kingdom, and the weeds and tare; sheep and goats have all been separated and you look over to me and say "See! they were all saved!" after which, I say, but what of those 5 Virgins who had insufficient oil, they were rejected!...They believed in OSAS? To which you answer "Yes, well, they were never saved!"

Could it be that those who failed their faith could have confirmed it if they heeded the If's & But's?

I think I'm getting closer to the issue of OSAS in that somehow you stand in the foreknowledge of God, and you make His Judgements on His behalf, all the while holding the belief you have confirmed your faith through sincerity and not lip service.

One might say, you are able to search your own heart, and judge it knowing in the future God will judge and see it as you do.

It's different isn't it Mailman to the poor tax collector?

The tax collector, however, stood far off and would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, be merciful to me, sinner that I am! Lk 18:13.

This feeds into your above comment, however it is true that Yahweh (God) is close to all them that are of a broken heart” Psa 34:18, Isa 57:15-18

For innumerable dangers surround me. My sins overtake me so I am unable to see; they outnumber the hairs of my head so my strength fails me. Ps 40:12.

He didn't exalt himself (as one being saved), this is God's work to justify a believer, though we might not know who has a broken and contrite heart, maybe the one who appears to be giving lip service is struggling with an area of their life which God is working on, totally oblivous to you.

I can see how you are distracted by OSAS teaching. You have placed yourself in a difficult position. You are not the proud Pharisee though you are not the Tax Collector either.

F2F

I was not claiming to infallibly know the hearts of everyone in regard to determining who is giving mere lip service confession and who is genuinely confessing Christ. I was simply drawing a contrast between the two. Only God infallibly knows the hearts of all men. When it comes to the word of God, I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before I reach my conclusion on doctrine. The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector is a good example those with a hard heart who are confident of their own righteousness and look down on others and those with a humble, broken heart who ask God to be merciful to them, a sinner. I fall in line with the tax collector and not the Pharisee.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel

As in CONTINUING to believe which is actually walking with the Lord being led by His Spirit based on what He says in His Word... not just believing Jesus exists.

The problem with you OSAS peoples is you claim those that acknowledge belief in the Lord but continue living in sin will still be saved.... that's satanic and is one of the devil's favorite deceptions.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The OSAS people must ignore portions of God's Word to hold their position which is being dishonest and/or willing blind.

In other words the OSAS peoples be... cherry pickers!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The problem with you OSAS peoples is you claim those that acknowledge belief in the Lord but continue living in sin will still be saved....

How long will youi continue to bear false witness based on your ignorance of what we teach (or willful refusal to acknowledge)

A child of God can not live in sin, so why would you slander us by saying we can live in sin at all. we do not believe we can. That would be you who think a child of God can live in sin, not us..

 

[mailmandan]

As in CONTINUING to believe which is actually walking with the Lord being led by His Spirit based on what He says in His Word... not just believing Jesus exists.

The problem with you OSAS peoples is you claim those that acknowledge belief in the Lord but continue living in sin will still be saved.... that's satanic and is one of the devil's favorite deceptions.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The OSAS people must ignore portions of God's Word to hold their position which is being dishonest and/or willing blind.

In other words the OSAS peoples be... cherry pickers!

Who said anything about simply believing "mental assent" that Jesus exists? Genuine believers trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and are in the light and walk in the light (Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8; 1 Thessalonians 5:4; 1 John 1:7) in contrast with those who merely say that they have fellowship with the Lord, and walk in darkness, lie and do not practice the truth. (1 John 1:6)

I don't claim to practice sin as a born again Christian and remain saved. That's a straw man argument. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. You seem to enjoy judging others.

Not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit is the demonstrative evidence that we are in Christ. (Romans 8:1) Type 2 works-salvationists try to create two camps of Christians. Those who walk according to the flesh and lose their salvation and those who walk according to the Spirit and maintain their salvation, which is false doctrine.

In regard to walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh in Romans 8, Paul sets up a CONTRAST between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. See the contrast?

Walking according to the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit. If a person’s intent is to live according to the flesh, it’s an indication that he is not saved. Yet if a person, by the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body, it's an indication he is saved.

Romans 8:13 (AMP) - for if you are living according to the [impulses of the] flesh, you are going to die. But if [you are living] by the [power of the Holy] Spirit you are habitually putting to death the sinful deeds of the body, you will [really] live forever.

In regard to Romans 11:22 that you read out of context, (who is the cherry picker now?) the Israelites (Jews) were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19)

I don't ignore any portion of God's word and I see right through your eisegesis.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

How long will youi continue to bear false witness

I quoted God's Word and you claim these scriptures are lies.

It's no wonder you are blinded by false doctrine!

Who said anything about simply believing "mental assent" that Jesus exists? Genuine believers trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and are in the light and walk in the light

Oh so NOW you claim one must walk in the light?

That's works based salvation man!

(using the pathetic OSAS arguments against ya there! )

All the OSAS teachers you people idolize will tell you that even if one does not walk in the light they are still saved just because they had one brief moment of faith

That's the false claim going around... if one believes on the Lord for like 5 seconds and then goes back to living like the devil then they are still saved.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Please point out the error in this post.



If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

You've done so repeatedly yourself already.
You don't know the meaning of abide. And you think you can choose to evict the Holy Spirit at any time.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Let's see how you go...

How can someone who doesnt believe in, or know Christ, deny him, you're not making sense! Atheist's are not responsible to God, or Christ, end of story - maybe try again! In your answer you need to deal with the enlightened/ baptised believers who deny Christ.

Matt 10 is speaking to those who know Christ and willingly deny him, you are not making any sense at all


On what basis do you think God forces people to believe and act?


Wow, so the "if's" and "buts" in the Word hold no meaning or value for you at all? These are only there for people who will never know God or His Son?

@mailmandan I am sure you are reading this with the same disbelief I am - imagine mailman how far the OSAS doctrine has gone in Christian and the degree of blinders they must have. Imagine what else they are missing?

This is the very danger with this belief!

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

You must know the Gospel first before you can decide not to obey, whether this is in the beginning, middle or end of life!! For Judas he walked with Christ for over three years before he made his choice and the others made theirs.

Staggering to see these comments and I am sure these are not standard OSAS beliefs...maybe an extreme version I think

F2F

You're not making any sense at all, what do you mean "how can they deny Him if they don't know Him". That's the whole point, they deny Him because they don't know Him as Lord and savior. Just as the Demons do, they know more about Him than any Christians but they don't believe in Him so go figure man.

Everyone one knows about Christ but very few believe in Him. There's a big difference in being aware of someone's existence and believing in them to save you from your sin. We have 6 year old kids at my Church who understand this and it shows how blind and biblically illiterate you are.
I will advise you again, please find a faithful Shepherd to teach you the ABC's before you embarrass yourself by making nonsensical silly childish comments.

Falsely accusing me of making dumb comments like "God forces people to believe" shows how low down you have stooped. It puts you on the same level as Satan, the accuser of the brethren.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I'm not sure how you are using "converted" here, but if Matt. 16:15-17 accurately records the facts, Peter met every test I can think of for "conversion" -- before his triple denial.

Conversion is when God converters a man from being dead in his sin, to being alive by His Spirit. Before conversion, a man is in bondage to sin and Satan, when God converts a man, he is set free from bondage to sin and Satan. That makes him able to respond to God in obedience.

 

[Christian Soldier]

watching @face2face and @Christian Soldier is like watching a comedy on the evening tube.

its funny as they go at each other not understanding they are both in error

Well, we're blessed to have a wise guru like you watching over us, to keep us on track. You could become a philosopher, if you put your mind to it. The Dali Lama is getting old now, he will soon need a replacement, so it might be a golden opportunity to cast your lot into the ring.

 

[face2face]

You're not making any sense at all, what do you mean "how can they deny Him if they don't know Him". That's the whole point, they deny Him because they don't know Him as Lord and savior. Just as the Demons do, they know more about Him than any Christians but they don't believe in Him so go figure man.

Everyone one knows about Christ but very few believe in Him. There's a big difference in being aware of someone's existence and believing in them to save you from your sin. We have 6 year old kids at my Church who understand this and it shows how blind and biblically illiterate you are.
I will advise you again, please find a faithful Shepherd to teach you the ABC's before you embarrass yourself by making nonsensical silly childish comments.

Falsely accusing me of making dumb comments like "God forces people to believe" shows how low down you have stooped. It puts you on the same level as Satan, the accuser of the brethren.

I'll leave you to your own devices
Thanks for the chats.
F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

I'll leave you to your own devices
Thanks for the chats.
F2F

Thanks for sharing Demonic Doctrine, but it's not for me. Cheers

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I can see two diffrent types of Saved that people go on about.
One claimes a religious carnal saved and the other is about that once you are truly Saved, so it is then that you can not turn back to the vomit that you once, because you were Lost ! and on the wrong path ! but now that you are Saved, then you can not turn back and reject Christ Jesus in fact, bacause you know him !
He abides in you and you in him = Saved !

Once truly Saved you can not turn back !

If one thinks that they are Saved and they fall form what they think is Grace, then they were never Saved in the first place, they only had a Religion driven zeal, like the Jews or Islam peddles, Religious Mans works that's all ! for they truly only look to others, as to what they do ? for they are making their own world. they never had Grace at all, for such Grace is a gift of God given freely to one, but that one has to pick up on what it is given in fact. that's the Key !
But the one of Christ Jesus is not bothered what others trip that they are on about, because we know that they are just beating about the bush, flogging a dead horse. such does not go anywhere because it's not of Christ Jesus in fact.

So i have seen a mate and his Mob claim, that they will make me saved ? I said that i was Saved to them ! they rejected this in fact. and said repeat what we say and we will have you saved. and they were pissed off afterwards at me. for they had expected something of me ? But the fact remains is that i know what Saved truly is all about and they do not in fact !

I asked do they remember when they got Saved ? Well i do in fact, how could i forget it ! i was blowen away, i was Raptured up ? God came to me ! just as he did to Saul, in much the same way ! and i was the only one in my house at the time, just walking to my room and bingo i was taken out of this world. I came to know Christ Jesus who he truly was and i had not a shadow of doubt ! befor that i had great faith willing to die for God with such zeal and strength of conviction but i did have some doubt to be honest, and i find that if their is doubt if only 1% say, well that will be just enough for Satan to creep in to corrupt you in fact !
But i am sealed 100% in Christ Jesus in fact. i have come out from them = the carnal religious church, they are not my teacher anymore, for i do not need them to guide me, for i am Saved.

Christians are just like the Jews ? not untill one is truly Saved are you taken out ? from them, that Mob !
We seen with Jesus deciples being Jews had faith in him because they truly looked up to Holy Moses with convivtion in fact and it was only when Jesus went to Heaven that they were born again = Saved ! they were the first Christians in fact ! They became Israel because they were in fact the Servants of God !
The rest of the Jews were Lost and vomited out of the Land ! why because they were not worthy of God in fact !

Were all Jews Gods people ? No ! read the OT it's all in their in regard to why not all were worthy, but some were in fact !
Not to mention, why were some called Israel ? only two of them got that, one from an Angel that was given to Jacob and the other was Nathaniel who was given that by Jesus in fact ! and their is a very good reason as to why it was so ! it's not a birth right in fact ! and every worthy Christion should know why that fact is so ! for every worthy Christian should preach it all, for it is a Key as to getting Saved ! the lights may come on ! But most religious will not bother to go their, for they do not want you Saved in fact, because they are not Saved in fact but are of this world that is Full of Delusions and Deceptions ! I went to Church and Bible study too but the Preacher was not Saved in fact ! he was working for his Church only, look nice bloke but he was only endoctrinated ! they would say Just believe ! well i hade some faith but i needed total conviction before i can truly talk about Christ Jesus in fact, for lukewarm does not cut it ! you need total conviction to move mountains !

For if we have faith that can move mountains, who can stop us in Christ Jesus ! we will win like the Jews won back in the days ? and they only lost when they turned their backs on God in fact !

The Godless New Age is upon us nowadays, but fear not for we will over come.
Godless people are good for nothing dupes and their society will fail badly, because it's rotten to the core.