OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[GracePeace]

According to this documentary, OSAS originated with the Gnostics, was constantly being refuted by the early church, and was unknown in the Church until the 5th century when Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, a former Gnostic, brought it into the church.

00:01:36 "Believers in OSAS invariably take the high ground historically as though they're defending the historic faith. This is incredibly dishonest. That's because before Augustine's novel teachings in the early 5th century, absolutely no one in the early church believed in once saved always saved. I know of no patristic scholar or church historian who disputes that fact."

00:03:22 "The early church fathers actually warned against the idea of OSAS because that doctrine was not found within any Christian churches at the time; it was found among the Gnostics. ... in their refutations of the Gnostics, they would mention how these Gnostics believed that you could never fall away from the faith..."

 

[GracePeace]

Not that just anything the early church did or did not practice (especially later accretions--eg, Orthodoxy's icon veneration is brought into practice within the first few hundred years) is automatically the gold standard; but, when you add these facts to the innumerable Scriptural refutations against it, there can, to any fair mind, be no uncertainty that OSAS is not from God.

 

[GracePeace]

If I believed in something that the early church spent hundreds of years refuting, like the Gnostic heresy of OSAS, I would not be incurious--I'd look at Scripture to figure out why the Church fought it, and see if they were right, and change my beliefs to fit with Scripture if it turned out they were right and I was wrong.

I'm not saying "follow me", because I don't claim to understand or have a grip on Christianity--I'm trying, in my engagements here, to understand Scripture, which, to me, would be the rule for "Christianity" (I'm not accepting the local churches' mutations of Christianity)--I'm just saying to follow where ever God's truth leads (and in this case where it led the early church for hundreds of years--led them to fight the Gnostic heresy of OSAS).

 

[SavedInHim]

This is a great documentary.

 

[BlessedPeace]

This is a great documentary.

For Gnosticism,yes. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

John 6:28-29.
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

We are eternally,irrevocably Saved. God said that. Not the Gnostics.

 

[GracePeace]

For Gnosticism,yes. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

John 6:28-29.
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

We are eternally,irrevocably Saved. God said that. Not the Gnostics.

The early church refuted OSAS for hundreds of years where it was only taught among gnostics. Why didn't anyone in the early church recognize OSAS if that was what Scripture and the Apostles taught?

 

[BlessedPeace]

The early church refuted OSAS for hundreds of years where it was only taught among gnostics. Why didn't anyone in the early church recognize OSAS if that was what Scripture and the Apostles taught?

Please show an epistle of any one of the Apostles of Yeshua wherein that refutation appears.

 

[GracePeace]

Please show an epistle of any one of the Apostles of Yeshua wherein that refutation appears.

I have been sharing many--please feel free to interact with any thread of mine.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I have been sharing many--please feel free to interact with any thread of mine.

No,you actually have only posted your interpretation.

There is no such scripture rightly dividend, devined,as truth.

You do nothing to save yourself. You can do nothing to lose the free irrevocable gift from God.

And really, in truth, what Christian would want to?
Much less dare call God a liar. And Yeshua a fraud.


Not one .

 

[GracePeace]

No,you actually have only posted your interpretation.

There is no such scripture rightly dividend, devined,as truth.

You do nothing to save yourself. You can do nothing to use the free irrevocable gift from God.

And really, in truth, what Christian would want to?
Much less date call God a liar. And Yeshua a fraud.


Not one .

The life is in His Son (1 Jn 5:11), and we are commanded "remain in Him" (1 Jn 2:28)--some don't, so they're cut off and thrown in the fire (Jn 15)..

 

[ScottA]

According to this documentary, OSAS originated with the Gnostics, was constantly being refuted by the early church, and was unknown in the Church until the 5th century when Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, a former Gnostic, brought it into the church.

00:01:36 "Believers in OSAS invariably take the high ground historically as though they're defending the historic faith. This is incredibly dishonest. That's because before Augustine's novel teachings in the early 5th century, absolutely no one in the early church believed in once saved always saved. I know of no patristic scholar or church historian who disputes that fact."

00:03:22 "The early church fathers actually warned against the idea of OSAS because that doctrine was not found within any Christian churches at the time; it was found among the Gnostics. ... in their refutations of the Gnostics, they would mention how these Gnostics believed that you could never fall away from the faith..."

You all need to put aside your prejudice and misunderstanding.

You are contradicting the reality that Christ sacrificed "once for all." Meaning, in that one moment on the cross in Christ, it was finished...just as He said.

So...one may "die daily" or continue to "do what you will not to do" as Paul indicated. But that does not change the fact that if one has come into Christ and Christ into them, "It is finished", for they are with Christ forevermore. This is the promise of eternal life in Christ, and no amount of semantics will ever change that.

Why, therefore, should you deceive yourselves, and others? For such is a false witness against Christ and the gospel of Christ. Meaning: anti-Christ.

 

[ScottA]

If I believed in something that the early church spent hundreds of years refuting, like the Gnostic heresy of OSAS, I would not be incurious--I'd look at Scripture to figure out why the Church fought it, and see if they were right, and change my beliefs to fit with Scripture if it turned out they were right and I was wrong.

I'm not saying "follow me", because I don't claim to understand or have a grip on Christianity--I'm trying, in my engagements here, to understand Scripture, which, to me, would be the rule for "Christianity" (I'm not accepting the local churches' mutations of Christianity)--I'm just saying to follow where ever God's truth leads (and in this case where it led the early church for hundreds of years--led them to fight the Gnostic heresy of OSAS).

How have you missed that 5 out of the 7 churches of the first century, Christ had "somewhat against?" Or that Peter stated matter a factly that "false teachers" would enter into the church spreading "destructive doctrines?" Or Paul's warnings of certainty, that a "lie" would be believed causing "strong delusion?"

If you base your case and beliefs upon what "the Church fought" for--you have failed. For they did not follow as directed, but rather "somewhat against" Christ. Which I would not state so harshly, but you are in need of correction (which is a biblical measure instated for just such a purpose).

But will you turn from it?

 

[GracePeace]

How have you missed that 5 out of the 7 churches of the first century, Christ had "somewhat against?" Or that Peter stated matter a factly that "false teachers" would enter into the church spreading "destructive doctrines?" Or Paul's warnings of certainty, that a "lie" would be believed causing "strong delusion?"

If you base your case and beliefs upon what "the Church fought" for--you have failed. For they did not follow as directed, but rather "somewhat against" Christ. Which I would not state so harshly, but you are in need of correction (which is a biblical measure instated for just such a purpose).

But will you turn from it?

Your own verses contradict your teaching, because He had something against them, and warned them to repent, or else face destruction, and yet you are arguing for OSAS! The early church fought Gnostic OSAS for hundreds of years--your OSAS belief is a Gnostic heresy.

 

[ScottA]

Your own verses contradict your teaching, because He had something against them, and warned them to repent, or else face destruction, and yet you are arguing for OSAS! The early church fought Gnostic OSAS for hundreds of years--your OSAS belief is a Gnostic heresy.

I am not here to debate this. I have thrown you a lifeline according to the scriptural mandate. Should you choose to take hold of it, you will be behind the Gnostics, though they too were imperfect in their faith.

 

[GracePeace]

I am not here to debate this. I have thrown you a lifeline according to the scriptural mandate. Should you choose to take hold of it, you will be behind the Gnostics, though they too were imperfect in their faith.

You don't know Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

You don't know Scripture.

Says one who just failed to give witness to all scripture, but only gave witness to part adding the teachings of men.

 

[GracePeace]

Says one who just failed to give witness to all scripture, but only gave witness to part adding the teachings of men.

Sounds good. Go answer all of my threads where Scripture disproves your Gnosticism--this thread has its point that OSAS is Gnostic and wasn't held by the early church and was fought against by the early church for hundreds of years.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wow man

Your so bent out of shape you have to attack people that have faith in Gods word.

1. Your op is faulty
2. Jesus taught that whoever believed would never perish (OSAS)
3. he taught that they had eternal life (OSAS)
4. He taught whoever say and believed would not perish, bit has passed from death to life and shall not see judgment (OSAS)

I can go on and on and on

You can;t say it was never taught until when ever when it was taught by Jesus himself and recorded in all 4 gospels. Preached by Paul. Confirmed by the author of hebrews and so on and so forth

If your angry at Calvinists, that fine, i am there with you. But don’t condemn your self and call jesus a liar because your mad at a group of people

 

[face2face]

For Gnosticism,yes. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

John 6:28-29.
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

We are eternally,irrevocably Saved. God said that. Not the Gnostics.

Cherry pickers everywhere!

 

[face2face]

1. Your op is faulty
2. Jesus taught that whoever believed would never perish (OSAS)
3. he taught that they had eternal life (OSAS)
4. He taught whoever say and believed would not perish, bit has passed from death to life and shall not see judgment (OSAS)

I can go on and on and on

Why did Jesus pray for Peter? Luke 22:31-32

Who did fail their faith?

I can go on if you like?