OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Phoneman777]

You all need to put aside your prejudice and misunderstanding.

You are contradicting the reality that Christ sacrificed "once for all." Meaning, in that one moment on the cross in Christ, it was finished...just as He said.

So...one may "die daily" or continue to "do what you will not to do" as Paul indicated. But that does not change the fact that if one has come into Christ and Christ into them, "It is finished", for they are with Christ forevermore. This is the promise of eternal life in Christ, and no amount of semantics will ever change that.

Why, therefore, should you deceive yourselves, and others? For such is a false witness against Christ and the gospel of Christ. Meaning: anti-Christ.

God isn't going to force anyone to stay who chooses to leave. Plenty of texts support this...

...like the Unmerciful Servant who asked and received a full pardon but wound up again responsible for his original sin debt because he refused to allow the character of his master to be manifested in his own life...

...like those who were renewed unto repentance but fell away and are now beyond being "renewed again unto repentance" after they'd fallen away...

...like the "many" saints who wind up lost after getting caught up in widespread iniquity in Matthew 24:12.

Just three of several examples that disprove OSAS.

 

[face2face]

God isn't going to force anyone to stay who chooses to leave. Plenty of texts support this...

...like the Unmerciful Servant who asked and received a full pardon but wound up again responsible for his original sin debt because he refused to allow the character of his master to be manifested in his own life...

...like those who were renewed unto repentance but fell away and are now beyond being "renewed again unto repentance" for refusing to reflect the character of his master...

...like the "many" saints who wind up lost after getting caught up in widespread iniquity in Matthew 24:12.

Just three of several examples that disprove OSAS.

Correct though I would disagree with your original sin debt comment. We inherited a sin prone nature and am not responsible for the sins of others.

I think the OSAS believers reveal a weakness in mind as the idea of one losing their reward places an obligation on them to "work out their salvation with trembling and fear", to them this is an abhorrent belief, though one God expects all who respond to the high calling to perform.

It's as though the want to "lock it in" = man-made thinking

F2F

 

[Phoneman777]

Correct though I would disagree with your original sin debt comment. We inherited a sin prone nature and am not responsible for the sins of others.

I agree. If we say to Jesus, "This far and no further" we're no different than the Unmerciful Servant.

I think the OSAS believers reveal a weakness in mind as the idea of one losing their reward places an obligation on them to "work out their salvation with trembling and fear", to them this is an abhorrent belief, though one God expects all who respond to the high calling to perform.

It's as though the want to "lock it in" = man-made thinking

F2F

Like the weak, double-minded groom who wants to be married but also wants to play around, so he says "I'll try" instead of "I do" when asked if he'll be faithful to the bride.

 

[ScottA]

God isn't going to force anyone to stay who chooses to leave. Plenty of texts support this...

...like the Unmerciful Servant who asked and received a full pardon but wound up again responsible for his original sin debt because he refused to allow the character of his master to be manifested in his own life...

...like those who were renewed unto repentance but fell away and are now beyond being "renewed again unto repentance" after they'd fallen away...

...like the "many" saints who wind up lost after getting caught up in widespread iniquity in Matthew 24:12.

Just three of several examples that disprove OSAS.

All of those are warnings or due to the possibility of not being fully committed, dead to self, but alive to God. Those who are born of the spirit of God cannot die, death has been overcome in Christ. All of which is the very definition of salvation: God in you and you in God cannot die. He is for everlasting. That is the promise of everlasting life--and you all treat it as if it is a lie. It's not. But only when fully attained.

Which means that those who are advocating for the possibility of loosing salvation, are saying God can die and is a liar. It's just wrong. Meaning, salvation has not been attained even if payed for, and many do not know what it actually is to be saved.

You are not helping.

 

[GracePeace]

All of those are warnings or due to the possibility of not being fully committed, dead to self, but alive to God. Those who are born of the spirit of God cannot die, death has been overcome in Christ. All of which is the very definition of salvation: God in you and you in God cannot die. He is for everlasting.

Which means that those who are advocating for the possibility of loosing salvation, are saying God can die. It's just wrong. Meaning, salvation has not been attained even if payed for, and many do not know what it actually is to be saved.

You are not helping.

You keeping acting like this hasn't been addressed : "the life is in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), and those who "remain in Him" (1 Jn 2:28) remain in the place where the life is located. There is no inference that God can lose life.

Are you really that dense, or are you really that blinded by your doctrine?
Which is it?

 

[ScottA]

You keeping acting like this hasn't been addressed : "the life is in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), and those who "remain in Him" (1 Jn 2:28) remain in the place where the life is located. There is no inference that God can lose life.

Are you really that dense, or are you really that blinded by your doctrine?
Which is it?

I warn you--you are on dangerous ground. I have no doctrine, except that which is given to me. It is not me who has spoken, but the Holy Spirit. Did you think such things warned of were not to be? I tell you they are.

 

[face2face]

@Eternally Grateful

I assume I've been disfellowshipped and no longer eligible for salvation which is ironic coming from one who believes in OSAS.

In all seriousness why could you not speak to Hebrews 5:7-8?

The Word of God is a complete message and if any part of it contradicts your beliefs; what is wrong? The Word of God or your beliefs?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Was the same Power at work in the Lord Jesus Christ - Yes or No?

Hebrews 5:7 In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

If Jesus is the firstfruits
If Jesus had your nature
If Jesus was held under condemnation of death

Then are the two Scriptures in agreement?

If no, then you don't have a High Priest who was tempted in all points as you! If no, then the enmity and wall of partition was not taken down! If no, then him who died did not really die and you are still in your sins!

If Jesus was not involved in his own death then you have no atonement and you are not reconciled to God.

Hebrews 9:12 he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

So did Jesus enter via his own blood?
Did Jesus secure redemption for himself and us?

If no, you are not saved!

F2F

 

[GracePeace]

@Eternally Grateful

I assume I've been disfellowshipped and no longer eligible for salvation which is ironic coming from one who believes in OSAS.

In all seriousness why could you not speak to Hebrews 5:7-8?

The Word of God is a complete message and if any part of it contradicts your beliefs; what is wrong? The Word of God or your beliefs?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Was the same Power at work in the Lord Jesus Christ - Yes or No?

Hebrews 5:7 In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

If Jesus is the firstfruits
If Jesus had your nature
If Jesus was held under condemnation of death

Then are the two Scriptures in agreement?

If no, then you don't have a High Priest who was tempted in all points as you! If no, then the enmity and wall of partition was not taken down! If no, then him who died did not really die and you are still in your sins!

If Jesus was not involved in his own death then you have no atonement and you are not reconciled to God.

Hebrews 9:12 he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

So did Jesus enter via his own blood?
Did Jesus secure redemption for himself and us?

If no, you are not saved!

F2F

He actually argued this :
1. Those who are born of God do not sin.
2. Romans 7 accurately depicts a Christian's life.

The guy is wholly incapable of conversing about the Bible in a coherent way.

 

[face2face]

He actually argued this :
1. Those who are born of God do not sin.

I know this belief and only one was truly born of God - the rest are sinners who are in need of forgiveness and saving from sin and mortality.

2. Romans 7 accurately depicts a Christian's life.

Actually I would argue Romans 7 is mostly about the struggle under the Law - only the very ned of Chapter 7 and all of 8 depicts the Christians life.

The guy is wholly incapable of conversing about the Bible in a coherent way.

It appears to be the case, sadly.

F2F

 

[GracePeace]

I know this belief and only one was truly born of God - the rest are sinners who are in need of forgiveness and saving from sin and mortality.

Actually I would argue Romans 7 is mostly about the struggle under the Law - only the very ned of Chapter 7 and all of 8 depicts the Christians life.

It appears to be the case, sadly.

F2F

Think of it : on one hand, Christians don't sin, and, on the other hand, Romans 7, where a guy gets whipped by sin, is about how Christians live.

The guy is not thinking about what he's saying before he's saying it.

 

[ScottA]

Warn everyone who gave your pathetic book a 2.7 out of 5 stars. LOL
Your gobbledygook and drivel are of no assistance to readers of the Bible.
Your brain would work better if you were fasting instead of eating cheeseburgers.
It's clogged up.

I gave the Scriptural grounds for my believing as I do.

What is your response?
"Message from the Spirit : you're wrong and I'm right, and I am warning you not to disagree!"

Wow, so Scripturally sound!
Are you on drugs?
Do you know false prophets faced capital punishment under the Law?

Fruit.

 

[Ritajanice]

​

◄ 1 Peter 1 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ A Greeting from Peter (2 Peter 1:1–2) 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the elect who are exiles of the Dispersion throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosena 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. A Living Hope 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birthb into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials 7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. A Call to Holiness (Hebrews 12:14–17) 13Therefore prepare your minds for action.c Be sober-minded. Set your hope fully on the grace to be given you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. 15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”d 17Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, conduct yourselves in reverent fear during your stay as foreigners. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake. 21Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him; and so your faith and hope are in God. The Enduring Word (Isaiah 40:6–8) 22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.e 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For, “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”f And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.

 

[face2face]

​

◄ 1 Peter 1 ►

​

12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Can you find any warnings in 1 & 2 Peter? Or, do you wish to only highlight the bits you like?
F2F

 

[GracePeace]

Fruit.

I'm getting a message : go away, you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation, just running to mods when the truth hurts your feelings.

 

[Ritajanice]

Can you find any warnings in 1 & 2 Peter? Or, do you wish to only highlight the bits you like?
F2F

The same could be said of you.

I post Gods word to his Born Again children..let me know when you understand what that means in your spirit ?

That’s where we are Born Of God’s seed?

A Living seed that gives life to our spirit..spirit children.

A Born Again can never ever be separated from the Spirit of God...and there is NO scripture that says they can.

We are kept by Gods power just as His word testifies with our spirit,then backed up by his penned word.

We know God in our spirit...not our intellect....

spirit children of the most high!

Once Born Again always Born Again...no one can separate us from the Spirit of God, it comes by divine Living revelation....

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

​

◄ John 6:39 ►

◄ 1 Peter 1:23 ►

Verse (Click for Chapter) King James Bible Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. New King James Version having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, American Standard Version having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth. Berean Study Bible For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. New Living Translation And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. English Standard Version And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. Berean Standard Bible And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 1 Peter 1 New International Version ​ 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. Praise to God for a Living Hope​ 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hopethrough the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. Be Holy​ 13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”[a] 17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.[b] 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For, “All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”[c] And this is the word that was preached to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Bingo!

You both make me laugh, You acting like your ignoring me, and him puffing himself up like he is some master theologian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS was only known among Gnostics in the first 500 years of Christianity--the early church fought it as a heresy before Augustine, a former Gnostic, brought it into the Church.

False

it was taught in scripture. But when you want to ignore fact.and remain in your belief system, you will believe anything you read that supports you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God isn't going to force anyone to stay who chooses to leave. Plenty of texts support this...

...like the Unmerciful Servant who asked and received a full pardon but wound up again responsible for his original sin debt because he refused to allow the character of his master to be manifested in his own life...

...like those who were renewed unto repentance but fell away and are now beyond being "renewed again unto repentance" after they'd fallen away...

...like the "many" saints who wind up lost after getting caught up in widespread iniquity in Matthew 24:12.

Just three of several examples that disprove OSAS.

Another one..

People who have true saving faith, don;t just leave
Maybe if you all actually experienced Gods love in his saving power you would understand this? But I am begining to seriously doubt you have

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All of those are warnings or due to the possibility of not being fully committed, dead to self, but alive to God. Those who are born of the spirit of God cannot die, death has been overcome in Christ. All of which is the very definition of salvation: God in you and you in God cannot die. He is for everlasting. That is the promise of everlasting life--and you all treat it as if it is a lie. It's not. But only when fully attained.

Which means that those who are advocating for the possibility of loosing salvation, are saying God can die and is a liar. It's just wrong. Meaning, salvation has not been attained even if payed for, and many do not know what it actually is to be saved.

You are not helping.

It’s amazing that they have no faiht in the power of God to save people. And keep them saved. They think it is just a game

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You keeping acting like this hasn't been addressed : "the life is in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), and those who "remain in Him" (1 Jn 2:28) remain in the place where the life is located. There is no inference that God can lose life.

Are you really that dense, or are you really that blinded by your doctrine?
Which is it?

Should I report you again for your childish behavior?

God promised he would never leave nor forsake us

if we want to PRODUCE FRUIT, we must remain or abide in him. But producing fruit is a result of salvation. Not a requirment.