OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Christian Soldier]

Don't be silly. I was talking about the saved sinners, not the unsaved sinners. See my Post #1002.

Thanks for confirming that, I should have known better than to even suspect that a person of you integrity would make such a statement. I do sincerely apologize.

You would be surprised at how many Christians can't accept the fact that God had to punish His Son to atone for the sins of those He saved. They can't understand why God didn't just wink at the sin and forgive and forget without bloodshed, and especially of the bloodshed of His innocent Son.

I'm sure you have no problem with understanding that there was no other way because God can't just wink at sin and only a perfect spotless sacrifice could be accepted. Most people can wink at sin so they think God should also be able to do the same, but they forget that God is nothing like we are.

 

[GracePeace]

I obviously don't believe in the god you believe in. My God doesn't break His promises as yours obviously does. A god who forgives someone then casts them into hell is Satanic, I could never have any respect for such a god.

You've had to use mental gymnastics, gobbledygook, to try to distance yourself from those parables, because you recognized they threatened your traditions, so don't come back now and pretend you're merely objecting to my "interpretations" of the parables.

 

[GracePeace]

That's funny coming form someone who doesn't even know who the parables were given to or why they were given. But I guess ignorance is bliss

You've made your point ("These parables threaten my tradition--therefore, God never intended them for believers, and I don't care what they say!"), so quit wasting your time talking with an "ignorant" person--see yourself out of the conversation.

 

[GracePeace]

You're obviously unaware of why Jesus spoke to unbelievers in parables. Look at His own words then come back and apologize for falsely accusing me and thank me for teaching you the truth.

Matthew 13:10-12 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So there you have it, Jesus admits that the parables were given to confuse the unbelievers.

Oops, Jesus didn't say His parables were lies, He turned right around explained the hidden meaning of that parable to His disciples, so the parables contain God's Truth--God's Word that you, to preserve your tradition, have stated you have no esteem for.

 

[GracePeace]

I obviously don't believe in the god you believe in. My God doesn't break His promises as yours obviously does. A god who forgives someone then casts them into hell is Satanic, I could never have any respect for such a god.

God "promises" to rescind forgiveness if you don't forgive.

Jesus faithfully depicts God in the parables.

God isn't unjust or blind, but repays men according to their works (Ro 2:6-16). He doesn't laugh at wickedness, like your "Christ alone" conception, where you think God only sees Christ when He looks at you (debunked by Revelation 2, 3, of course).

 

[GracePeace]

While everything I've said about the God of the bible is supported by scripture and not just my opinion.

Nope, not supported by the parables--but, no need to fear, you've formulated a solution :
You've arbitrarily decided they don't apply to you, either bc they're lies (they're not, they're just concealed truth--Jesus explains one in Mt 13), or else that you'll just not submit to God's Truth contained in them!

 

[GracePeace]

Jesus gave the Disciples the full story of the parable, not because they need to hear it or know it but because they were privileged to get the inside information which those on the outside weren't privileged to know.

None of the parables are given as some kind of instruction or commandments, they were simply Jesus telling people, "this is what happens when you do X Y and Z. They were never given in a way that says you musty do this, they were always optional. It was up to the hearer to make whatever he wants of them. They don't mean the same thing to me as they do to you. See how that works???

Nope, Jesus does not speak in vain, He speaks bc God leads Him to speak, and He interprets His parables authoritatively, so, no, they're not up to personal interpretation.

When Jesus says "So My Father will treat you if you do not forgive", that's what the parable means.

 

[th1b.taylor]

All right, man, nice talking with you--no sense in keeping on wasting my resources repeatedly citing the same verses of Scripture over and over! Thanks for joining the convo!

Christian Soldier and I would give anything if Yeshuah would open your spiritual eyes and ears but He, not being a bully will allow the bulk of His crowning creation to spend eternity where their treasure is.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.​

Hebrews 9:27–28

[27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [28] so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (ESV)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're obviously unaware of why Jesus spoke to unbelievers in parables. Look at His own words then come back and apologize for falsely accusing me and thank me for teaching you the truth.

Matthew 13:10-12 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So there you have it, Jesus admits that the parables were given to confuse the unbelievers.

But thats not what you said., You said it was only given to them.

I have no reason to apologize. You just proved me right,

it was given to confuse them, but we could understand..

now you apologize.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well that's no defense of your god, I have charged you with believing in a false god and you're unable to provide any biblical evidence that your god exists. While everything I've said about the God of the bible is supported by scripture and not just my opinion.

so what have I said about my god? Do tell

as for your God being supported. all I can do is laugh.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wish you were right and there was only 3 gospels, but the sad truth is there are 45,000 to chose from so it' a lottery as to who is lucky enough to be born into a Church which teaches the one true gospel, which saves them.

lol. No there is not. again stop with your catholic nonsense.

There are three basic gospels granted one of these have subsets in them (some churches are more legalistic than others) but they still are a legalistic gospel

I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, I completed all the sacraments, because our parish Bishop told us that there is no other way to enter heaven, except through keeping the sacraments in the the Mother Church. The Bishop told us that Jesus gave the Apostle Peter (the first Pope of Rome) the keys to heaven.

One of my best friends grew up in the Greek Orthodox Church, where He was taught that there is no salvation outside of the Greek Orthodox Church. He said the Patriarch told them that Jesus chose to leave His final message with the Greeks, in the isle of Patmos and that's true. The Apostle John did receive the final message in Greece.

Every denomination adds their requirements to the gospel, each creates a unique set of requirements for their congregation to follow. These requirements are given as a condition to receive salvation, some denominations add around 20 requirements to the gospel and others add 509

Every denomination choses their own unique requirements, that way the congregation is trapped and most in the congregation believe they will lose their salvation if they join a different denomination. They even call people who leave traitors and their family and friends despise them, so the denominations wield a lot of power over their congregation.

My Priest told me that the biggest mistake the Vatican ever made was to release the bible to the public. He said, if you give 10 people a bible and ask them to read it, they would come back with 10 different interpretations and that's the undeniable truth. Allowing the public to own a bible has resulted in the disintegrating of the Church and 45,000 Christian Sects, Cults and Denominations.

The truth is you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say, as evidenced by the 45,000 denominations. It's wishful thinking to say there are only 3 gospels, because everyone adds their own spin to the gospel message. My Priest gave me a book, which had all the main Denominations and what they believe. I was shocked to find the large number of radically different gospels and doctrines.

I have since lost the book and I haven't been able to find another copy because I don't even remember the exact title as it was given to me 16 years ago. But the tile was something like "finding your way to the true religion", anyway it was certainly shocking.

I don't share your view that anybody can interpret the bible correctly if they just read it. If that was true we wouldn't have 45,000 opposing Denominations.

lol.

You just proved my point.

The greek orthodox and roman catholic church both preach a legalisitc gospel.. they come under the same type.

If you really look at it you both probably have the same sacraments, or works you belief you are required to do to get saved.

Like I said. Legalism is any gospel that teaches that we must do works to get saved, maintain our salvation or keep from being saved.

You have not refuted that

as for the catholic church releasing the Bible. Thank God they did. Because people could actually read fore3r themselves and see how corrupt the roman church is

 

[GracePeace]

It would be a lot easier than studying and honoring the plain truth of the Word, which is so hard to understand as to be impossible without God's intervention.

Clarification : the individual parts are plain, but it's impossible to understand how they all fit together, because so many of the plain truths seem, on the surface, to be mutually exclusive.

Getting a coherent and consistent message from the Bible takes divine intervention.

 

[GodsGrace]

The parables were not given to believers, because we don't need the parables. As an Elect Saint of God, I understand what God said. The parables were given to unbelievers, to confuse them so they won't understand the gospel message.

You have proven that you don't have the capacity to embrace the gospel message, so you abuse the parables to justify your lack of understanding. you don't even have the capacity to understand that the prodigal son never died and he never came back to life. Those are metaphors but they baffle you because you don't have then gift of discernment.

Nowhere does the bible say that anyone's name can be blotted out of the book of life, you made that lie up. You falsely interpret Exodus 32:33 "whoever has sinned against Me I will blot out of My book"
You have no idea of what that means in it's intended context, you abuse Gods Word when you pluck verses out of their intended context and twist their meaning to force your false doctrine on them.

Before you m8isused that verse you should have done a study to find out who sinned against God. If you did you would have found that everybody has sinned against God, so according to you nobody can be saved. Can you see how ludicrous your doctrine is.
I would urge you to find yourself a Shepherd to teach you the basics, so you don't embarrass yourself every time.

The parables were not given to believers, because we don't need the parables. As an Elect Saint of God, I understand what God said. The parables were given to unbelievers, to confuse them so they won't understand the gospel message.

The parables were given to everyone that cared to listen, hear, and believe in what Jesus was teaching.
Maybe you remember that some left Jesus and the disciples in John 6 because Jesus was teaching something hard to believe...
SO

1. Either they FELL AWAY from their faith.
or
2. They were listening to hear what they would hear and decided it was TOO DIFFICULT to bear.

Either choice you make will NOT AGREE with either your belief system OR what you just posted above.

You have proven that you don't have the capacity to embrace the gospel message, so you abuse the parables to justify your lack of understanding. you don't even have the capacity to understand that the prodigal son never died and he never came back to life. Those are metaphors but they baffle you because you don't have then gift of discernment.

Wait....
Do you think I stated that the Prodigal Son PHYSICALLY DIED?

Yeah.
This conversation must end.

Nowhere does the bible say that anyone's name can be blotted out of the book of life, you made that lie up. You falsely interpret Exodus 32:33 "whoever has sinned against Me I will blot out of My book"

I gave you at least 3 verses about names being blotted out of the book of life.
You call what the bible states a lie?
That's on you CS.

And what exactly is wrong with Exodus 32:33
WHOEVER HAS SINNED AGAINST ME I WILL BLOT OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

BLOT OUT.
REMOVE.
ERASE.
DELETE.

Even YOUR name could be blotted out of the book of life IF YOU SIN AGAINST GOD.

That's what the verse says.
Take it up with God.

You have no idea of what that means in it's intended context, you abuse Gods Word when you pluck verses out of their intended context and twist their meaning to force your false doctrine on them.

Before you m8isused that verse you should have done a study to find out who sinned against God. If you did you would have found that everybody has sinned against God, so according to you nobody can be saved. Can you see how ludicrous your doctrine is.
I would urge you to find yourself a Shepherd to teach you the basics, so you don't embarrass yourself every time.

I've found myself a shepherd.
His name is JESUS.
He's the MESSAGE
NOT the MESSENGER.

You should learn about Him too.

And please stop writing unless you wish to discuss scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's obvious we don't believe in the same God, so you will never convince me that your god exists. Just as I will never convince you to believe in the God of the bible.

I thought there was only one God.
Apparently not since your God doesn't even love His best creation MAN.

In Genesis God said everything He made was GOOD.
Genesis 1:18, 25

When He made man, God said he was VERY GOOD.
Genesis 1:31

So, either God was lying....
or you're wrong.

 

[GracePeace]

The parables were given to everyone that cared to listen, hear, and believe in what Jesus was teaching.
Maybe you remember that some left Jesus and the disciples in John 6 because Jesus was teaching something hard to believe...
SO

1. Either they FELL AWAY from their faith.
or
2. They were listening to hear what they would hear and decided it was TOO DIFFICULT to bear.

Either choice you make will NOT AGREE with either your belief system OR what you just posted above.



Wait....
Do you think I stated that the Prodigal Son PHYSICALLY DIED?

Yeah.
This conversation must end.



I gave you at least 3 verses about names being blotted out of the book of life.
You call what the bible states a lie?
That's on you CS.

And what exactly is wrong with Exodus 32:33
WHOEVER HAS SINNED AGAINST ME I WILL BLOT OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

BLOT OUT.
REMOVE.
ERASE.
DELETE.

Even YOUR name could be blotted out of the book of life IF YOU SIN AGAINST GOD.

That's what the verse says.
Take it up with God.


I've found myself a shepherd.
His name is JESUS.
He's the MESSAGE
NOT the MESSENGER.

You should learn about Him too.

And please stop writing unless you wish to discuss scripture.

I have encountered so much gobbledygook here it's astonishing.

 

[GracePeace]

And please stop writing unless you wish to discuss scripture.

Some are happy to discuss not Scripture but their tradition, then, when Scripture corners them, they desperately seek a way to not be subject to Scripture (eg, "I don't submit to parables... at least not after i find out, through argumentation, that there's no way I can square them with my tradition.")

Hahaha

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some are happy to discuss not Scripture but their tradition, then, when Scripture corners them, they desperately seek a way to not be subject to Scripture (eg, "I don't submit to parables... at least not after i find out, through argumentation, that there's no way I can square them with my tradition.")

Hahaha

Sadly, this happens on both sides.

they think the scripture does not apply to them

or they would rather look to history or tradition.

its like the word of God means nothing, and do not even want to discuss it

 

[Christian Soldier]

You've had to use mental gymnastics, gobbledygook, to try to distance yourself from those parables, because you recognized they threatened your traditions, so don't come back now and pretend you're merely objecting to my "interpretations" of the parables.

Those parables have an entirely different meaning to me than to yourself. Jesus said "it is given to you to understand the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not". He was referring to the parables, this means I don't need the parables because I know the the conclusion of the matter and they have been given a puzzle which is confusing and keeps them guessing.
You obviously ignore this fact because it's not convenient and it exposes your error.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Oops, Jesus didn't say His parables were lies, He turned right around explained the hidden meaning of that parable to His disciples, so the parables contain God's Truth--God's Word that you, to preserve your tradition, have stated you have no esteem for.

Why was Jesus playing games with unbelievers and giving them puzzles which they could never figure out and why did He reveal the puzzles to His disciples???, go figure

 

[Christian Soldier]

God "promises" to rescind forgiveness if you don't forgive.

Jesus faithfully depicts God in the parables.

God isn't unjust or blind, but repays men according to their works (Ro 2:6-16). He doesn't laugh at wickedness, like your "Christ alone" conception, where you think God only sees Christ when He looks at you (debunked by Revelation 2, 3, of course).

I'll stick to the Christ alone concept, and you can have your religion of works. Christ said your best religious works are filthy stinking rags, and that's all you have to offer God, A bunch of filthy stinking rags. Good luck with that