Philippians 1.6 says: "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Clowns also do rodeos, and Satan also quotes scripture.
But you have spoken accurately, that what you have been saying is what you "believe" (rather than "know"). And while I am fine with being finished, I will do so by repeating, that No, I was not speaking to you opinion to opinion, I was speaking what I "know." John 3:11
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
What you know is OSAS and that is not in agreement with what the Bible says (as I have already demonstrated). Let the Judgment of the Lord Jesus Christ show forth what has been said. I am confident that on this point, I am not wrong. But time of course will ultimately reveal all things.
Anyways, peace unto you in the Lord.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Which has to be read in balance to other verses in the Bible.
We are also told:
“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).
"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).
We are told to:
- Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
- Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
- Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).
In fact, the idea that you most likely do not believe in Sinless Perfectionism or that no believer can ever live perfect in this life proves that God does not force people to live perfectly according to His will; Yet, we know God does everything perfectly, and He cannot make mistakes and all His ways are righteous and good. If you could sin and still be saved on some level, then God could not be good because God would have to agree with your sin (or turn a blind eye to it) in order to save you in such a manner.
The point is that God's grace keeps the true believer.
Human effort or merit does not save.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Paul also says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Paul also says for us to fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12).
Jesus says strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24).
So it’s not a walk in the park. God who has begun a good work in a believer can perform it until the final day of Jesus Christ IF they remain faithful to the Lord. It’s not a one way street with God doing everything. We have to cooperate with God.
For if God forced saved people against their free will, then why does God get angry at the wicked every day? (See: Psalms 7:11). God could just change them and force them to do good and not be angry.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The Lord makes it clear from Philippians 2 that 'it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure'.
“ Doing what is right” does not mean a life of Sinless perfection .....If one does “ the Will Of God” how could he NOT be “ doing what is right “ .....so the Vital question becomes, “What is the Will Of God? “ .....Jesus Himself provided the answer—-“The Will Of God is to BELEVE on the ONE that He sent”......that’s what I do.....I don’t believe in me and “ my “ performance”——- I Believe in * HIM* and His Shed Blood.....Plus NOTHING.....Salvation is a GIFT —- not a Trade...” You promise to be good and Moral and I will Save You”......
Become a Saved man by Believing and Resting in the Gospel Of Paul, given to him by Jesus personally....then you will receive God's Holy Spirit .....let that Spirit “ hang around” long enough and one’s behavior should improve.....it should and it will if given enough time—- it’s Sanctification .....the process whereby God Transforms you into the Image of His Son—- it has Nothing to do with your Salvation...it is a result of it...Theoretically , if you Repent by “ changing your mind” about the truth of the Gospel ( going from an Unbeliever to a Believer) you are instantly saved and if you get struck by a bolt of lightning and die suddenly before you perform any type of work you are Saved....You did Gods Will—- you “ Believed in the One That He sent “ —- going beyond that is great...if you live$long enough you probably will —- you just don’t have to in order to be Saved..... Only TWO THINGS Save you...#1 The Shed Blood Of Christ. #2 Your Faith in #1. You continue to confuse Salvation with Sanctification....
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Chapter and verse. You need to prove this with the Bible. I have already provided verses that demolish this Calvinist line of thinking, as well.
Give me the scripture, that teaches Jesus' gospel is to ask God to be saved?
Did you ask by prayer?
Also if God is directly keeping you from unbelief, then God is at fault every time you fall short and sin against Him.
You are not responsible for your actions.
You think God is responsible for your actions.
You might be a calvinist and not know it.
Many Born Again and Evangelical members believe that in order to be saved, the only thing which we should do is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior by faith. And once you accepted Him through faith, you have now an assured salvation in heaven. No need of good works or following the commandments of God, but through faith alone, we will be saved according to them.
Sorry to say this, but I think this kind of belief is not just unbiblical but shameful, careless and dirty in its entire content. Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,
“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“
And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;
“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”
After the horrible incident in Pennsylvania, Pastor Knapp’s deacon, Jack Rickard commented on Sodini’s death and said,
“George is going to heaven, but he’s not going to get his rewards,” (SOURCE )
Kenneth Nally, another believer of this unscrupulous doctrine, committed suicide in 1980 after he was taught that even self-murder would not stop a person once saved from going to heaven. Definitely! This kind of belief would reclaim many people to Satan, the author of all lies and abominations.
I also remembered a certain time when I tried to ask a Born Again pastor who preaches about the assured salvation. I asked him, “Pastor. If doing good works is unnecessary for salvation so that I decided to cease from giving my tithes, am I still saved?” The pastor answered and said, “Definitely not, son. If you will cease from giving your tithes and offerings, you will become a robber, because the Bible said, ‘ye rob God’.” See??? Born Again and many Baptist and Evangelical pastors who hold this kind of shameful doctrine are just after to our tithes! They don’t care about our salvation. They don’t care whether we will become evil or not, but what matters most is our money. They telling their members that in salvation, good works are unnecessary things, except the giving of tithes and donations!
Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY
Excellent work!
OSAS believers can claim all they want that this false doctrine does not lead one into depravity.
The real world proves otherwise.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
When you read Philippians 2:13 you cannot ignore Philippians 2:12 that says for you to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. So you are ignoring parts of the Bible to make Calvinism work.
Lol.....I suppose that you never did Anything That was “ not right” ..... ever have an impure thought? You are as guilty as an Adulterer in God's eyes.....James said that “ We ALL stumble”, but apparently YOU don’t.... what a farce your life is ..... Best go get you some of that Amazing Grace that you Reject in favor of your “ make sure you repent of all of your sins before you die” crappola...
If doing something that is “not right” in the manner that you “ think” John is referring to , there is absolutely NO HOPE for anyone living in a body of flesh.....John was not referring to a life of “ Sinless Perfection”—- THAT is impossible.....if that is True, why did John also say that * WHEN WE SIN* we have an “ Advocate”.....why does God have to “Chastise His Children” .....Why are we told to go to the “ Throne Of Grace” at the times we Need it....
Use some common sense....put on your “ thinking cap” .....read your Bible....Sin is in your very DNA and the only solution is Grace.....God knows it....that is why He says that we are “ Saved by Grace” ...that should ring a bell....
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Try reading 2 Thessalonians 2:13 sometime.
It says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Verse 14 says this is a call of the gospel.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I agree. Even the OSAS lite version (which is not the Hyper Grace Version) is still wrong. The OSAS lite folk will say they are not like the Hyper Grace camp, and they believe that they will not practice sin but when push comes to shove, if you confront them with 1 John 1:8, they then start to admit that they will forever sin this side of Heaven. But they never describe just how often or little a believer sins that does not qualify it as practicing sin. Paul says in Galatians 5:24 that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1, let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Does not sound like Paul even agrees with even the OSAS Lite folk.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
In the King James Bible, James correctly says we all offend in many ways. It is the Modern Bible Versions that will say stumble in many ways (Which is false). So you are trusting a false Modern bible as your final word of authority (when we know Modern bibles have false teachings in them).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
All glory to the Lord for me finding that article.
In Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), the talk of holiness and conforming to Christ is an illusion because they also say you can sin on occasion and yet you are still saved. This is what the twofold message of Eternal Security is all about.
However, we know that the general message of OSAS in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not being set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.
Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
Out Of Darkness NO Eternal Security Christian Testimony
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Many Christians appear to be for holy living, but it is a facade. I have been talking on various different Christian forums over the past 10 years, and it’s the same ole story.
Take for example, John MacArthur (A known Calvinist). He also pretends to teach holy living as a requirement for salvation, but he really does not believe that way according to the Bible. The Lordship Salvation doctrine he popularized is a Trojan horse.
How so?
Well, Kenneth Nally committed suicide as per his influence of John MacArthur's ministry and MacArthur said that he was still saved.
Here is a quote from an article:
"At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”
Article Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide
John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:
John MacArthur says,
".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ...
(The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"
(The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"
John MacArthur confirms how one can sin and still be saved here in this video:
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