Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Taken]

The discussion on faith that me and Danthemailman are having is,

Is Biblical saving faith a faith with no works
Or
Is Biblical saving faith a faith of belief and works.

Dan believes as all faith onlyist's believe that saving faith has no works involved. Typical Baptist doctrine.

The Bible defines faith never as mental assent but always taking action on the belief by obeying God.
Just as James is teaching.
Faith without obedience is dead, it cannot justify man,
James 2:20
James 2:24

I am in agreement with @mailmandan.

* Work is a mans effort to Hear Gods Word.
(the Gift a man receives for Hearing is FAITH)

* Service is a man Laying down his LIFE FOR Gods.
(The Gift a man receives for giving his Life FOR God, is Salvation)

* There ARE other Works and Services a man CAN THEREAFTER DO,.(and thereafter IS paramount, because BEFORE that particular work and service......a man has NO viable relationship with God.)

Works thereafter, will inturn, NOT gain a man more Gift of Faith from God.
(Once a man IS FULL of Gods Gift of FAITH...it’s accomplished.)
The man WILL receive from God.....REWARDS for other works the man will do.
(Other works do not determine if that man WILL KEEP his FaithFULLness....Gods Power Keeps it for the man.)

Services thereafter, will inturn, NOT gain a man more Gifts from God for that service.
The man WILL receive from God.....Particular BLESSINGS...for other services the man will do.
(Other services do not determine if that man WILL KEEP his Salvation....Gods Power Keeps it for the man.)

* It is a false preaching that a man MUST KEEP Hearing the Word of God, to KEEP, his RECEIVED FaithFULLness.
* It is a false preaching that a man MUST KEEP doing Services or Works for God, to KEEP, his RECEIVED Salvation.

* It IS Gods Perceptual Teaching (in His Precepts) given to the Hebrews, (and beneficial for all of mankind), that men “Faithful and Saved men”....WHO do keep, in continuance Hearing Gods Word, Doing Works for God, Doing Services for God.... have the advantage of constant practice, familiarity, habit and benefit moreso, like any man who maintains practice, habit, familiarity, proficiency, in any thing a man has chosen to follow, agree with, adhere to.

 

[Taken]

Why are you repeating to me what I said?

 

[Happy Trails]

There are no jews in the new covenant

Romans 9:24
even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 3:29
Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

You cannot show me a single verse of Scripture that says Gentiles are members of the new covenant.

You quoted 3 verses that say nothing about a covenant of any kind.

The ONLY verses in the Bible that describe the participants in the new covenant say, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah."

It does NOT say Gentiles are in the new covenant.

This lack of precision regarding what the words actually say is why it is so easy for people to make up any doctrine that suits their needs.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why are you repeating to me what I said?

Post 1395 was a mistake. See the post after (1398).

 

[ScottA]

Sure it does.

2 Timothy 4:2
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”

It is God who proves all. It is not a "burden" placed on any.

"Reproof" is what I have been doing.

 

[mailmandan]

People can’t get out of their own way and just let God save them

Until we get to the end of the creature we will not get to the beginning of the Creator.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No it does not!

Why are you dictating the what something means...
That you neither know, understand or believe?

Receiving Salvation, is not about....Whoopie....got the “agreement of Salvation”, now I can continue to Stand against God, sneak off and be with any other god.

That is as ridiculous as saying....Got wedded with my wife, “that Joining gave me License” to continue being with any other woman!

ONCE Saved........IS one person, one time, agreeing to Stand ONLY WITH the Lord God Almighty For-EVER.

ONCE Saved.........IS the Lord God Almighty, one time, agreeing to Stand WITH that one man For-EVER.

Don’t you get it? The AGREEMENT between a man and the Lord God Almighty.......IS OF, BY, THROUGH.......SALVATION.

SALVATION IS the contract....the agreement...between one man & God.

It OCCURS “ONCE”. Not multiply times, like men, agree to marry, agree to borrow and repay, and then break their word, run off to other women, loss their asses for failure to repay....

Scripture WARNS men....
KNOW what a contract WITH God IS...
It’s a ONE TIME Agreement...
BE SURE BEFORE you agree to the “contract” WITH God...

It’s SURELY IS NOT, an AGREEMENT, (license <—- LOL) to Run off to other gods!

^ Utterly ridiculous and false!

So you are saying that if you do sin… like say lying or looking upon another in lust that you are not saved?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is God who proves all. It is not a "burden" placed on any.

"Reproof" is what I have been doing.

Uh, no you haven’t. You have not even offered any verses to me that even sound like OSAS. Others here have offered verses that actually sound like OSAS but when we compare it to the context or other verses in the Bible, they are obviously taking them out of context to the chapter or the rest of the Bible. Take for example John 10:28. You did not mention this popular verse that sounds like OSAS (at first glance). Most OSASers love to quote this one, but this easily refuted if they were to read the verse above it (verse 27). The kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of His hand are the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. Following Jesus is not forced upon you. You have to choose to abide in the Lord and the good work He wants to do through you.

 

[Taken]

“Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.” (1 John 4:4)

Are you NOT LISTENING?
...God does not force anyone.
Are you NOT LISTENING?
...Individuals FREELY Choose what God Offers, or they do not Have what God Offers.

And you can come short of that “way” if you continue in sin.

Are you NOT LISTENING?
Gods WAY, IS HIS POWER IN YOU KEEPS YOU FROM SINNING!
IF...as you say,
YOU CAN or ARE continuing to SIN...His Power is NOT IN YOU!
YOU...did not receive Gods POWER IN YOU...
WHY NOT?
ONE reason;
YOU did not receive His Power IN YOU, ACCORDING TO HIS WAY.

What is this unbiblical babbling?

Not unbiblical. IF/THEN, and Choosing...is precisely Biblical.
You blurt out accusations, Because you Fail to KNOW what His Word DOES SAY.

IF/THEN elementary Biblical examples;
Matt 12:28 ~ Matt 21:25 ~ Luke 13:9 ~ Luke 20:25 ~ John 8:31 ~ Rom 11:6 ~ 2 Cor 5:14

IF/THEN for the wise who understand IF/THEN concept.
New Testament 600+ examples.

Choosing a Biblical Teaching.

Josh 24
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

But no power to stop sinning. Ookie dokie.

ARE YOU NOT STILL NOT LISTENING?

God POWER “IN” a man....?
ARE YOU STILL FAILING to COMPREHEND God is SUPREME POWER?
WHAT do you think Gods POWER ‘IN’ A MAN is DOING?
(Apparently in your case....according TO “YOUR” “IF/THEN”....IF Gods Power were IN you, THEN He would be doing nothing but wallowing in all the sin your are INFESTING your body with.)

Your ‘IF” “THEN”, is not according to Gods Word!

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;” (1 Peter 1:13)

Correct....
KEEP HOPING, while you do not have the (knowledge and understanding of Holy Spirit’s Power IN a man)

Many (like you do not BELIEVE IN His Power IN a man...)
THEY WAIT for the Revelation of Jesus Christ...WAIT for Him to be SEEN...
So THEY can then BELIEVE, in the Greatness of HIS POWER...

And HERE is THEIR reaction...

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

WOW...they will MOURN when the revelation of Jesus Christ is Revealed for them to SEE.

And HERE is the Lord Reaction...

Matt 24:
[51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites:

And their response....
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Sir, what have you been reading?

Not a secret. Gods TRUTH.

It’s permanent on the the condition of those “IF’s” you said you knew all about which apparently you are not familiar with the ones in the Bible.

Yes Little one of Little understanding.
God Offers, IF you agree to Gods Offer, Then you can HAVE what God Offers. IF you do not agree to Gods Offer, Then you can NOT HAVE what God Offers.

It’s called making a agreement, Something Adults with Wisdom do.
Just because a Bank has offered to make you a loan...WHILE you might LIKE them to FORCE you to Take that loan....wise Adults understand,
The difference between FORCE, and AGREEMENT.
Force is the Act of one party upon another party.
Agreement is Two party’s each choosing to abide by the ONE agreement.
God DOES NOT FORCE anyone to TAKE His Gift of Faith, His Gift of Salvation, His Gift of eternal Life.....
* IF you are waiting for GOD to FORCE you to Believe, FORCE you to be SAVED, FORCE you to be with Him, FORCE you to have eternal LIFE....
Ain’t going to happen!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“You blurt out accusations, Because you Fail to KNOW what His Word DOES SAY.”
@Taken

Oh please.

So where are you getting your Mumbo jumbo sayings from?

 

[Titus]

I am in agreement with @mailmandan.

* Work is a mans effort to Hear Gods Word.
(the Gift a man receives for Hearing is FAITH)

* Service is a man Laying down his LIFE FOR Gods.
(The Gift a man receives for giving his Life FOR God, is Salvation)

* There ARE other Works and Services a man CAN THEREAFTER DO,.(and thereafter IS paramount, because BEFORE that particular work and service......a man has NO viable relationship with God.)

Works thereafter, will inturn, NOT gain a man more Gift of Faith from God.
(Once a man IS FULL of Gods Gift of FAITH...it’s accomplished.)
The man WILL receive from God.....REWARDS for other works the man will do.
(Other works do not determine if that man WILL KEEP his FaithFULLness....Gods Power Keeps it for the man.)

Services thereafter, will inturn, NOT gain a man more Gifts from God for that service.
The man WILL receive from God.....Particular BLESSINGS...for other services the man will do.
(Other services do not determine if that man WILL KEEP his Salvation....Gods Power Keeps it for the man.)

* It is a false preaching that a man MUST KEEP Hearing the Word of God, to KEEP, his RECEIVED FaithFULLness.
* It is a false preaching that a man MUST KEEP doing Services or Works for God, to KEEP, his RECEIVED Salvation.

* It IS Gods Perceptual Teaching (in His Precepts) given to the Hebrews, (and beneficial for all of mankind), that men “Faithful and Saved men”....WHO do keep, in continuance Hearing Gods Word, Doing Works for God, Doing Services for God.... have the advantage of constant practice, familiarity, habit and benefit moreso, like any man who maintains practice, habit, familiarity, proficiency, in any thing a man has chosen to follow, agree with, adhere to.

Then you believe a dead faith is what saves, James 2:20.

Faith is a work, John 6:28-29.
No one is saved by faith without works,
Hebrews 5:8-9.

 

[Taken]

So you are saying that if you do sin… like say lying or looking upon another in lust that you are not saved?

ARE YOU NOT LISTENING....
I have not said.........”IF I SIN”....
I have expressly said......”MY SIN IS FORGIVEN”.
I have expressly said......”I SIN NO MORE”.

Now IF you think yourself qualified TO DECLARE I HAVE SINNED...
Don’t cower now, STAND UP, declare it, prove it!

 

[Taken]

“You blurt out accusations, Because you Fail to KNOW what His Word DOES SAY.”
@Taken

Oh please.

So where are you getting your Mumbo jumbo sayings from?

You ACCUSED, IF THEN was not Biblical. Choosing was not Biblical.

Already Biblically Proved your Accusation in Error.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You ACCUSED, IF THEN was not Biblical. Choosing was not Biblical.

Already Biblically Proved your Accusation in Error.

I wonder why you won’t disclose where you learned your writing style.

 

[Taken]

So you are saying that if you do sin… like say lying or looking upon another in lust that you are not saved?

When you can FIND ME SAYING THAT....QUOTE ME, then I’ll respond.

But no “you saying that FOR ME”....does not require a response for you speaking for me.

 

[Titus]

You just admitted true Biblical faith has obedience here,

; yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works.

You are contradicting yourself.
You just taught me faith is only true faith when it has evidence.
That evidence is works.
Therefore your faith without obedience is not true Biblical faith.

It is what James teaches it is, dead, James 2:20.

Please show me where James taught faith alone is not dead?
James only taught faith without obedience is a dead faith. That is all it can be.

You are teaching we are saved by a faith that is dead, and is not by your words: not genuine faith.
You admit genuine faith has works.
Since your doctrine contradicts itself, it is not from God.

 

[ScottA]

But how does that help your case for OSAS? OSAS justifies sin. So it’s not biblical.

The mystery of marriage is the precedence for me correcting you after 2,000 years of misunderstanding. And, yes, those of Paul's time could have considered him wrong, and Jesus, and Isaiah.

Nonetheless, I have given you enough scripture telling of God's methods which most commonly do not seem right at the time.

As for the direct scripture that establishes the truth of what I am now telling you, although there are many more, I have given you that as well:

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20
​

Once Saved--is Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, you are resting 24/7. How does anything get done?



Anything and everything that needed to be “done” for Salvation was done at the Cross.....

The song that millions sing mindlessly every Sunday actually has it right—- it really “IS” , “ Nothing But The Blood”......NOTHING.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You cannot show me a single verse of Scripture that says Gentiles are members of the new covenant.

You quoted 3 verses that say nothing about a covenant of any kind.

The ONLY verses in the Bible that describe the participants in the new covenant say, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah."

It does NOT say Gentiles are in the new covenant.

This lack of precision regarding what the words actually say is why it is so easy for people to make up any doctrine that suits their needs.

I showed you I am not a Jew and gentiles are part of gods plan too

believe what you will. You will only see what you want

 

[Taken]

Then you believe a dead faith is what saves, James 2:20.

IF I had said that you can repeat what I said I believe.
I didn’t say that, thus you are speaking FOR ME, which is accredited to you, not me.

Faith is a work, John 6:28-29. [/QUOTE]

Read it carefully...What works can a man DO is the question.
The answer is what works a man can do ....IS BELIEVE.
Faith is OF GOD, Faith IS a GIFT that belongs to God.
Faith is A GIFT, God will give to men....FOR WHAT?
The WORKS of BELIEF, a man does.

The Faith is not a WORKS of a man.
The WORKS of a man IS TO BELIEVE!


John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

No one is saved by faith without works,
Hebrews 5:8-9.

God gave men KNOWLEDGE bit by bit....
You have not yet understood the knowledge of John 2:28-29.