Salvation by works is NOT what the parable is teaching as I already throughly explained in post #1197, but apparently, the truth just went right over your head.. sigh.
To make your point for Matthew 25 in the “
Parable of the Talents”: You pointed to the Israelites who were led out of Egypt (as a whole) in how they were called servants (Leviticus 25:55) and yet you conclude by this that they were
never saved because they fell in the wilderness. I don't believe that. I believe they started out saved, but they later lost their salvation in the
wilderness (i.e. a barren region, desert like place). How so?
Well, 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 says,
1 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.”
In other words, the Israelites are said to have drank of that spiritual Rock and that Rock was Christ. This was in their initial salvation when they were obeying Moses in putting the blood on the doorposts, in being led out of Egypt, and in crossing the red sea. So when they later fell in the wilderness, they were then resisting the Holy Spirit and sinned and departed from the living God.
Also, again, the unprofitable servant was not cast out because he was not converted. That is your addition to the text that the Bible does not specifically say.
He was cast out because he was unprofitable.
Matthew 25:30
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Yet, we know that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter into the joy of His Lord.
Matthew 25:21
“His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”
You said:
It's not that we must have works in order to become saved
The word
become means
to begin to be.
This is erroneous. Nowhere did I say that we start off or
begin to be saved when we start to produce works. As I told you before. We start off in being saved by God's grace without works when we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior (in the 1st aspect of salvation). In other words, if a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior before they die on their hospital bed, they will be saved by God's grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9). But if they were to live out their faith, and they were to continue with the Lord in walking with Him, they will then naturally enter the Sanctification Process. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Works, putting away sin, living holy, and keeping oneself unspotted from the world is all a part of our Sanctification.
In other words, works do not help us to become saved, but works
(Sanctification) is merely the continuation of our salvation that begin with first being saved by God's grace (without works).
You said:
but that we WILL have works IF we truly are saved. Works-salvationists typically have this backwards.
Again, you’re stating a contradiction here. You say authentic faith that saves will have works, but those works in and of themselves do not save. Again, even if the works were not salvific in and of themselves, the fact that you need works to show a true faith means that works is a required part of salvation. For do you believe a Christian can live out his faith over many years and not have works and be saved? If you say... “yes” you are being consistent with your words. If you say... “no” then you are not being consistent with your words.
You said:
It's painfully obvious to me that you just don't have ears to hear and I am just wasting my time beating a dead horse. Not trying to sound harsh, but that's just how I feel. ;) You seem to be on a mission (through your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, wrongly dividing the word of truth, confusing justification with ongoing sanctification and faith with works etc..) in order to draw disciples after yourself and get them to buy into your "type 2 works salvation" (holier than thou) gospel. Well I'm not buying it but good luck with your mission.
Well, no offense, but I see your belief as twisting Scripture and not rightly dividing the Word. But one just saying so does not mean one is correct. The real proof is backing up one's claims with the Bible, and not our own imaginative words added to what the Bible says.
Anyways,
Justification means to be:
Declared just or righteous. I prefer
not to use the term
Justification by big brand named Theologians anymore in reference to being saved by God's grace because the Bible teaches we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Meaning, we are justified by both faith and works. So instead of using the word “
Justification,” I prefer to use the word “
Gods grace” or “
God's grace through faith” (Instead of Justification). However, the problem I see is that you redefine the word “
justification” in the Bible when it refers to works (When the Bible uses the same word “
justification” for both faith and works in James 2:24).
As for my using long winded posts:
I would say that your posts can be long at times, too.
It would be inappropriate of me to not give a proper reply with what I know God's Word when there are people out there looking for the truth. So it's not just really for your benefit alone but it is for honest truth seekers who are good Bereans.
In any event, we can agree to disagree in love and respect.
May you be well in the Lord, Dan.
With loving kindness to you in Christ,
Sincerely,
Bible Highlighter.
