Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Ferris Bueller]

I think it way more important that a person make sure they are really saved. As long as you have the assurance that you are really saved and ready to meet Jesus it doesn't matter if OSAS is true or not. People need to focus on 'making their calling and election sure', not on the OSAS argument.

 

[marks]

It just looks that way because I'm differentiating between the faith that God gives and the believing/trusting that a person may or may not do in response to God's gracious gift of faith, the gift of knowing.

No, the reason you seem conflicted to me is that you appear to acknowledge that God is actually working in us right now to "keep us saved" by suppying us with faith, while you at the same time say that our faith could fail us and we be lost. That's conflict.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If doing that is a self-righteous work that will damn you to hellfire,

Don't put words in my mouth. You don't do it correctly.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because I do not believe there are performance requirements to receive the free gift of justification.

Be real.

You teach that if you cease to believe, you become again lost. You'll have passed from Life to Death. Unless you keep believing. Do you truly not understand that dynamic?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The waters of John' baptism for repentance.

Born? No.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jesus consistently warned against fake believers

Maybe your ridicule was inspired by your misunderstanding, I'm not speaking of fake believers.

I understand the Bible to teach that those who have been born again, do not return to spiritual death, @Ferris Bueller teaches that they may, and this is what we disagree over.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, the reason you seem conflicted to me is that you appear to acknowledge that God is actually working in us right now to "keep us saved" by suppying us with faith, while you at the same time say that our faith could fail us and we be lost. That's conflict.

Much love!

God is faithful to supply faith. The potential failure is that the person rejects it. I mean, that's what happens when God calls a person but they reject what they hear. God gave them the faith to believe but they decided to not believe what the power of faith has shown them to be true, and they don't get saved. And so the question about OSAS is whether or not a person can reject the power of God's faith after they initially received it and are saved. I say, don't worry about it. Just do what the Bible is clear about: Hold fast to the word of the gospel, and make your calling and election sure so that you know you're even saved in the first place. Do that and it doesn't matter if OSAS is true or not. You're doing what actually matters.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Don't put words in my mouth. You don't do it correctly.

Much love!

Then what is it? What's your point about a person doing the believing?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Be real.

You teach that if you cease to believe, you become again lost. You'll have passed from Life to Death. Unless you keep believing. Do you truly not understand that dynamic?

Much love!

Your believing is not not the performance requirement condemned in scripture. It is in fact the very thing that you must do in order to justified. The performance requirement condemned in scripture is doing righteous works of the law in order to earn a declaration of righteousness (justification). Those are works clearly contrasted with the 'work' of believing in scripture, not equated with believing. Believing is the thing you are to do to be justified. Believing is not a damnable work of self-righteousness if you do it to be justified. This is very clear in scripture.

 

[marks]

The potential failure is that the person rejects it.

Is that so? If it is being supplied, it's there.

. . . you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

At what point in that do you "reject" that faith?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then what is it? What's your point about a person doing the believing?

Just read my posts for what they say and not how you reinterpret them to make some point of your own.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Believing is the thing you are to do to be justified.

You view seems to be that you must "keep believing" to "keep being justified". Is that correct?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Born? No.

Yes, born.
The waters of John's baptism for repentance births a slave that will not see the kingdom of God. Repentance from evil works to good works, alone, (what we like to call the works gospel) is not enough to see and enter into the kingdom of God. Paul talks about this flesh giving birth to flesh here showing us what it actually means: (Just read the emboldened parts if you want. The rest is there for context if you want it.)

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren woman,

who bears no children;

break forth and cry aloud,

you who have never travailed;

because more are the children of the desolate woman

than of her who has a husband.”c28Now you,d brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.30But what does the Scripture say? “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son (the son born according to the flesh) will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Galatians 4:21-30​

Just repenting of yours sins in a covenant of law births a son "born according to the flesh" (vs.23). That's what people were doing in the time of Jesus and Nicodemus. Paul says the son born that way does not inherit the kingdom of God (vs.30). This is affirmed by Jesus saying, you must also be born again, by the Spirit, in order to enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5-6), not just by the flesh. Just being born of the flesh via the old covenant isn't enough to see and enter into the kingdom.

 

[marks]

The waters of John's baptism for repentance births a slave that will not see the kingdom of God.

No, you are making this up. There is no birth in that. There are two births. One from your mother, and one from God.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You view seems to be that you must "keep believing" to "keep being justified". Is that correct?

Much love!

No unbeliever will be saved when Jesus comes back. Therefore, if you believe now you must still be believing on the day you die in order to be saved at the resurrection. OSAS is all about whether or not a believer can stop believing or not. Who cares???? What matters is that you are a believer, and a believer all the way to the end. What good is it if you settle the matter of OSAS but die an unbeliever? What matters is that you believed and kept believing to the very end. Knowing whether or not OSAS is true doesn't change that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, you are making this up. There is no birth in that. There are two births. One from your mother, and one from God.

Much love!

Okay, so you can't see the plain words of Galatians 4 that I posted. I really didn't expect you to acknowledge them. Honest. I've posted them for others to see and learn from.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

. . . you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

At what point in that do you "reject" that faith?

Lol, that's the whole point about OSAS.
I say it doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that you must believe and die a believer in order to be saved at the judgment. OSAS doesn't change that fact one inch. So let's do what the Bible says to do: Hold fast to the gospel word, and diligently seek to increase in the qualities of the Spirit and do righteous deeds in order to make sure we're even really called and elected in the first place. That's what matters.

 

[marks]

Who cares????

You seem to have such a flippant attitude about the truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Okay, so you can't see the plain words of Galatians 4 that I posted. I really didn't expect you to acknowledge them. Honest. I've posted them for others to see and learn from.

What, that Hagar was the one born according to the flesh, that is, this was the man's plan, not God's?

Plain words? About something else.

This to you means that "born of water" refers to John's baptism?

Hagar was cast out, therefore the one baptised to repentance must be cast out . . . This is not speaking of the same thing.

You'd have to be more specific about how the one defines the other.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You seem to have such a flippant attitude about the truth.

Much love!

There is some truth that just doesn't matter.