Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[CadyandZoe]

What you don't understand is that the prophecy is about someone coming in the spirit and power of Elijah which means it would be someone like Elijah rather than Elijah himself.

No. That is not what Jesus meant to say.

Look at Malachi 4 again.

Malachi 4:4-6
Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel. Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.

This passage references the prophecy from Malachi 4 and attributes it to John the Baptist coming in the spirit and power of Elijah.

I don't think so. Sorry. Coming in the spirit and power of Elijah isn't the same thing as God sending Elijah the prophet.

Why not just accept this instead of insisting that Elijah himself still has to come in the future?

John denied that he was Elijah. (John 1:21) And Jesus said that Elijah would come. (Matthew 17:11)

You continue to not accept what the NT teaches about the fulfillments of OT prophecies.

I do not accept your interpretation of the NT.

Jesus explicitly said John the Baptist was the Elijah to come.

He was speaking figuratively about Elijah.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. That is not what Jesus meant to say.

LOL at you thinking you have any idea of what Jesus meant to say when you can't even discern His deity! LOL!!!

Look at Malachi 4 again.

As if I haven't already looked at it many times? I can look at it a thousand more times and will never agree with you. Get that through your head.

I don't think so. Sorry. Coming in the spirit and power of Elijah isn't the same thing as God sending Elijah the prophet.

Sorry that you foolishly don't accept what Jesus said. He explicitly said that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come and you don't accept it.

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

There is a reason why Jesus said "if you are willing to accept it" there. It is because He knew that people like you who are lacking in discernment and lacking in trust of what Jesus said would have trouble accepting anything but a literal interpretation of Malachi 4.

John denied that he was Elijah. (John 1:21) And Jesus said that Elijah would come. (Matthew 17:11)

He didn't deny being the Elijah to come that Malachi 4 prophesied about. He simply denied being the literal Elijah himself. Nice try, but you failed again. Jesus explicitly said that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come and you reject it. This says it all about what you think about Jesus.

 

[CadyandZoe]

He didn't deny being the Elijah to come that Malachi 4 prophesied about. He simply denied being the literal Elijah himself.

Context is king. They wanted to know if he was the Elijah that is to come. He said no.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Context is king. They wanted to know if he was the Elijah that is to come. He said no.

No, he was not denying that he was the Elijah to come. You are adding that to the text. He was only denying that he was Elijah himself. So ironic for you to say "Context is king" when I showed you multiple scriptures where the context indicates that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come. Jesus explicitly said so and you don't accept that. Says it all about your lack of proper reverence for Jesus Christ.

 

[rwb]

The Ten Tribes were taken captive by the Assyrians.

You THINK the ten tribes taken captive by the Assyrians is what 1Pe 1:1 is speaking of?

1 Peter 2:9

There is no mention of "chosen race" in Peter. If those of the dispersion is limited to Israel through their specific lineage (blood line) why does is it speak of people from "time past who were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy"??? When in time past was Israel by blood not a people of God?

1 Peter 2:9-10 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You THINK the ten tribes taken captive by the Assyrians is what 1Pe 1:1 is speaking of?

Yes. He is talking to the diaspora, which is a word that refers to the Ten Tribes living abroad.

There is no mention of "chosen race" in Peter.

Peter refers to them as the chosen "genos", which refers to family or families.

If those of the dispersion is limited to Israel through their specific lineage (blood line) why does is it speak of people from "time past who were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy"??? When in time past was Israel by blood not a people of God?

After King Solomon's death, the 10 northern tribes of Israel revolted in Shechem against Solomon's son Rehoboam and installed Jeroboam as king in his place (I Kings 12). After the Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom of Israel (722 bce), the city of Shechem declined. Hosea records God's proclamation that the Northern Ten tribes are "not my people."

Eventually, God said, he would reunite the two houses into one house again. He illustrates this with sticks in Ezekiel 37:19-21

1 Peter 2:9-10 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Peter argues that since God chose the family of Jacob to be his people, they should act accordingly.

The term "generation" in the KJV is "genos" which indicates family.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, he was not denying that he was the Elijah to come. You are adding that to the text. He was only denying that he was Elijah himself. So ironic for you to say "Context is king" when I showed you multiple scriptures where the context indicates that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come. Jesus explicitly said so and you don't accept that. Says it all about your lack of proper reverence for Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that Elijah is coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said that Elijah is coming.

No, He said that He already came. Are you not able to read?

Matthew 17:11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

The disciples, unlike you, understood that Jesus was talking about John the Baptist when He said "Elijah has already come". You have the advantage of the scripture explicitly telling you this, which they didn't have, and you still don't get it.

 

[rwb]

He means "among you". The kingdom of God was among them because the King was among them.

The Kingdom of God is not among them/us, it is within them/us when the Spirit sent from Christ is within. These passages are speaking about the heart/mind being made new. The Pharisee's of Old thought through what is physically seen, the Kingdom of God is made manifest. Christ using a dirty cup and platter explains that just because they physically appear to be clean in within in reality dirty dishes, likened to their hearts, are not clean until they are washed inside also.

Within - Strong's Greek Dictionary
1787. ἐντός entos (entós)
Search for G1787 in KJVSL; in KJV.
ἐντός entós, en-tos'

from G1722; inside (adverb or noun):—within.

Matthew 23:26 (KJV) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Colossians 1:27-29 (KJV) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

How might one know and enter the Kingdom of God that is not physical but spiritual? "Ye MUST be born again"! When man is born again, we have Christ within us through His Spirit, and both know and have entered the Kingdom of God. A Kingdom that is not of this world, and shall never be found physically upon THIS EARTH!

Wow, that would take pages

Then surely you should be able to show a few or even once where we read the Kingdom of God shall be on THIS earth???

 

[rwb]

Where we disagree is centered on God's role for physical/national Israel. On the question of physical Israel, I would say that God still has a role for them and you disagree.

I know what you believe regarding physical Israel! You espouse Dispensational Zionist doctrine whether you realize it or not. You are caught up in physical fulfillment after Christ came with His eternal spiritual Kingdom that shall never be destroyed! You are locked in the belief that we must stay with that which was of a physical kingdom of Old AFTER Christ has come with the Kingdom of God that is INSIDE of believers, being Christ in us through His Holy Spirit within us. You lack any spiritual discernment of the spiritual things of Christ. For this reason you are consumed with physical flesh that is destined to death.

 

[rwb]

No. That is not what Jesus meant to say.

Look at Malachi 4 again.

Malachi 4:4-6
Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel. Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.



I don't think so. Sorry. Coming in the spirit and power of Elijah isn't the same thing as God sending Elijah the prophet.

John denied that he was Elijah. (John 1:21) And Jesus said that Elijah would come. (Matthew 17:11)


I do not accept your interpretation of the NT.

He was speaking figuratively about Elijah.

While you're waiting for Elijah to physically return to this earth, Christ tells the Pharisee's and since you don't understand, you also, Elias is come already! Elias came in the spirit and power of Elias through John the Baptist.

Matthew 17:12 (KJV) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

 

[rwb]

LOL at you thinking you have any idea of what Jesus meant to say when you can't even discern His deity! LOL!!!


As if I haven't already looked at it many times? I can look at it a thousand more times and will never agree with you. Get that through your head.


Sorry that you foolishly don't accept what Jesus said. He explicitly said that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come and you don't accept it.

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

There is a reason why Jesus said "if you are willing to accept it" there. It is because He knew that people like you who are lacking in discernment and lacking in trust of what Jesus said would have trouble accepting anything but a literal interpretation of Malachi 4.


He didn't deny being the Elijah to come that Malachi 4 prophesied about. He simply denied being the literal Elijah himself. Nice try, but you failed again. Jesus explicitly said that John the Baptist was the Elijah to come and you reject it. This says it all about what you think about Jesus.

You might as well be talking to the wall!

 

[rwb]

Yes. He is talking to the diaspora, which is a word that refers to the Ten Tribes living abroad.

Prove what you allege from the Scriptures!

Peter refers to them as the chosen "genos", which refers to family or families.

Again, prove what you allege from the Scriptures, prove that "chosen race" is the same as "chosen generation." FWIW "race" is not defined in Scripture as equating to people, it is defined as a distance man of faith must run through much affliction in this world. You will not find anywhere in the Bible this imaginary, physical "chosen race" you adamantly cling to.

After King Solomon's death, the 10 northern tribes of Israel revolted in Shechem against Solomon's son Rehoboam and installed Jeroboam as king in his place (I Kings 12). After the Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom of Israel (722 bce), the city of Shechem declined. Hosea records God's proclamation that the Northern Ten tribes are "not my people."

Eventually, God said, he would reunite the two houses into one house again. He illustrates this with sticks in Ezekiel 37:19-21

Prove the physical ten northern tribes of Israel in the days after Solomon are those of the Diaspora Peter writes of! You do realize that if the letter was for them, being long ago DEAD, they would never receive the letter?

 

[rwb]

The term "generation" in the KJV is "genos" which indicates family.

Yes, but not "race"! You make up this so-called "chosen race" that is inclusive only of Israel of the flesh!

 

[rwb]

Jesus said that Elijah is coming.

He also said He came through John the Baptist. Why do you accept only parts of what Christ says, and ignore what doesn't fit. Typical of Premillennial Dispensational Zionist doctrines of man.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You might as well be talking to the wall!

Agree. But, I'm pretty sure I would get a better response from the wall.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, He said that He already came. Are you not able to read?

Matthew 17:11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

The disciples, unlike you, understood that Jesus was talking about John the Baptist when He said "Elijah has already come". You have the advantage of the scripture explicitly telling you this, which they didn't have, and you still don't get it.

“To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.

Future.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Kingdom of God is not among them/us, it is within them/us when the Spirit sent from Christ is within.

That is true, but that is not what Jesus meant to say on that occasion.

Then surely you should be able to show a few or even once where we read the Kingdom of God shall be on THIS earth???

Jeremiah 23
“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
And He will reign as king and act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.
6 “In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell securely;
And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘The Lord our righteousness.’

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

“To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.

Future.

So, you just completely ignore that He said "Elijah has already come"? It's typical of you to cherry pick the parts of scripture that you think support your false doctrine while ignoring the rest, but that's not how this is supposed to work. That's how cults interpret scripture. We know Jesus was not contradicting Himself when He said "Elijah has already come", so we can accept that Elijah had already come just as He said. When He said "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things" He was saying in effect that, yes, that is what the prophecy says would happen, but I'm telling you that Elijah has already come. You can't just ignore the fact that He said "Elijah has already come". Well, you can, and you do, but you shouldn't.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I know what you believe regarding physical Israel! You espouse Dispensational Zionist doctrine whether you realize it or not.

Am I allowed to speak for myself? I say I don't.

You are caught up in physical fulfillment after Christ came with His eternal spiritual Kingdom that shall never be destroyed!

I believe it because it is taught in the Bible.

You are locked in the belief that we must stay with that which was of a physical kingdom of Old AFTER Christ has come with the Kingdom of God that is INSIDE of believers, being Christ in us through His Holy Spirit within us. You lack any spiritual discernment of the spiritual things of Christ. For this reason you are consumed with physical flesh that is destined to death.

Why make this argument? Why assign motives to what I believe? How is that helpful?