Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[rwb]

I, on the other hand, believe that the NT authors employ the OT to prove their point.

That's the problem with dispensational Zionist as yourself. You think the proper way to understand is by using that which was of Old to prove the New Covenant. You have it exactly backwards. It is the New that helps us to more fully understand that which was of Old. Of Old there was only one people of God, but that changed under the New Covenant. The people of God are not limited to one race of people but are also among the Gentile nations. And Gentiles as well as Jews are the strangers dispersed according to the providence of God. If the dispersion was of the Jews only, that is what would have been written. It makes ZERO sense for a Jew to write of Jews as 'strangers'. However, it makes perfect sense to call Christians without mention of race foreigners and strangers and pilgrims upon this earth!


Strong's Greek Dictionary
3927. παρεπίδημος parepidemos (parepídēmos)
Search for G3927 in KJVSL; in KJV.
παρεπίδημος parepídēmos, par-ep-id'-ay-mos
from G3844 and the base of G1927; an alien alongside, i.e. a resident foreigner:—pilgrim, stranger

Abraham is listed among all those of Old who died in faith. He lived and died before any were called Jews but he too was a stranger and pilgrim on the earth, among Gentile nations in unbelief. That because people of faith are always strangers and pilgrims here on this earth.

Hebrews 11:8 (KJV) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:13 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 

[rwb]

Here also we better understand what is written. Peter calls them "people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy". Clearly this is not reference to Jews not having obtained mercy from God. It is of Christians, as Christ's church on earth, the faithful saints of Christ, whom the Lord has come for. It is written, "I beseech as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul". This is written not to Jews, but to CHRISTIANS of every nation.

1 Peter 2:10-12 (KJV) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's the problem with dispensational Zionist as yourself.

I am not a dispensational Zionist.

You think the proper way to understand is by using that which was of Old to prove the New Covenant.

Was I talking about the New Covenant? No. I said nothing at all about the New Covenant.

You have it exactly backwards.

How so?

It is the New that helps us to more fully understand that which was of Old.

I agree. But that is a far cry from assuming that the Apostles can make up stuff.

Of Old there was only one people of God, but that changed under the New Covenant.

God doesn't change his mind. Peter reminds his readers that they are a chosen race. There is only one chosen race -- the sons and daughters of Jacob. There is only one chosen people -- the sons and daughters of Jacob.

The New Covenant is made with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. The New Covenant doesn't belong to the Gentiles. It belongs to them. The Gentiles are grafted in.

The people of God are not limited to one race of people but are also among the Gentile nations.

The people of God are the Israelites. Thus we read,

Romans 11:1

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.​

Paul refers to the Israelites as the people of God. He argues that God has not rejected his people because Paul is an Israelite and he is one of God's chosen.

And Gentiles as well as Jews are the strangers dispersed according to the providence of God.

That is incorrect. The diaspora are not Gentiles. They aren't scattered. The simply live where they live.

If the dispersion was of the Jews only, that is what would have been written.

That IS what has been written.

It makes ZERO sense for a Jew to write of Jews as 'strangers'.

The proper word is "foreigners". The term refers to anyone who has left home and is currently living in a foreign country. But my point doesn't center on Strong's 3927. It centers on Strong's 1290, which indicates the Jewish people living abroad.

 

[covenantee]

You don't seem to understand. I clicked on the link that YOU provided and it didn't say what you say. Understand?

Check out this link from Bible Hub 1290

Here is a summary

diaspora: a dispersion (Isr. in Gentile countries)
Original Word: διασπορά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diaspora
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-as-por-ah')
Definition: a dispersion (Israelites in Gentile countries)
Usage: lit: scattering abroad of seed by the sower, hence: dispersion, used especially of the Jews who had migrated and were scattered over the ancient world.

Click your Bible Hub 1290 link.

Scroll further down the page. What do you see?

"sojourners far away from home, in Pontus, 1 Peter 1:1"

Yeah.

Thanks for confirming your continued blindness.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Click your Bible Hub 1290 link.

Scroll further down the page. What do you see?

"sojourners far away from home, in Pontus, 1 Peter 1:1"

Yeah.

Thanks for confirming your continued blindness.

You are misreading the reference.

Notice what it says.

παρεπίδημοί διασπορᾶς Πόντου, sojourners far away from home, in Pontus, 1 Peter

The Greek word that means "sojourners far away from home" is παρεπίδημοί NOT διασπορᾶς

 

[covenantee]

You are misreading the reference.

Notice what it says.

παρεπίδημοί διασπορᾶς Πόντου, sojourners far away from home, in Pontus, 1 Peter

The Greek word that means "sojourners far away from home" is παρεπίδημοί NOT διασπορᾶς

You mean that you actually found the quote?? I don't believe it!!

Look everyone, CaZ knows how to conjugate and translate Greek words and expressions better than James Strong!!

Spare us the guffaws.

The Greek word that means "stupid" is Ανόητο.

 

[rwb]

Was I talking about the New Covenant? No. I said nothing at all about the New Covenant.

That's because you are still locked to a physical nation called Israel. You have no ability to understand the Kingdom of God that Christ came with that includes peoples from all nations is NOT the physical Kingdom that was of Old! It is the spiritual Kingdom of God that every human of faith enters into when they are born again/from above.

God doesn't change his mind. Peter reminds his readers that they are a chosen race. There is only one chosen race -- the sons and daughters of Jacob. There is only one chosen people -- the sons and daughters of Jacob.

The New Covenant is made with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. The New Covenant doesn't belong to the Gentiles. It belongs to them. The Gentiles are grafted in.

Who are the sons and daughters of Jacob? According to you they are ethnic Jews of faith only. According to Scripture it is not through ethnicity that one becomes a son/daughter through Jacob's SEED (Christ). We become a son/daughter of Jacob according to grace through faith, not according to our natural birth. But you can't see this because you read the New Covenant as if there is still only one chosen people of God.

So you think the house of Judah and the house of Israel are NOT the seeds of Israel (Jacob)? The Covenant of Redemption is only NEW in the sense that from Old it was primarily Israelites. In fact for a Gentile to come into the Covenant body they would have to convert to Judaism or be married to a Jew. But in no way was the Covenant through Christ, the Covenant of Redemption ever the sole possession of Israel. As I've pointed out Abraham, called the Father of the faithful was not an Israelite. He was in fact a Gentile. But according to you he does not belong to Christ because he was never of the house of Judah or Israel.

How did Abraham become a man of saving faith, belong to the New Covenant through Christ? God preached the Gospel to him, and he BELIEVED (had faith) God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. The New Covenant through this Gentile man, named Abraham, God telling him "all the families of the earth would be blessed" through his SEED (Christ). How can you possibly deny the New Covenant has always been to ALL people of faith without regarding their ethnicity.

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Genesis 12:3 (KJV) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The people of God are the Israelites. Thus we read,

Romans 11:1
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Paul refers to the Israelites as the people of God. He argues that God has not rejected his people because Paul is an Israelite and he is one of God's chosen.

You read this verse in isolation from what else Paul has written. Paul tells us exactly what people shall be called "Israel of God." They are not exclusively of the circumcision, but the uncircumcision also.

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

That is incorrect. The diaspora are not Gentiles. They aren't scattered. The simply live where they live.

Yes, according to Scripture they are people from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue! Not one nation, but every nation of this world.

 

[covenantee]

The people of God are the Israelites. Thus we read,

Romans 11:1
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Paul refers to the Israelites as the people of God. He argues that God has not rejected his people because Paul is an Israelite and he is one of God's chosen.

Why did you stop there?

Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,...
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul immediately identifies who "His people" are. They are a remnant which He foreknew according to the election of grace.

That is the Church of regenerate Jews and Gentiles.

Peter confirms it.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

It is not your racialized unregenerate Israelites. Paul describes them:

Romans 10
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

God is not a racist.

Your incessant attempts to contort Him into one are an assured failure.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why did you stop there?

Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,...
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul immediately identifies who "His people" are. They are a remnant which He foreknew according to the election of grace.

That is the Church of regenerate Jews and Gentiles.

He stopped there because he cherry picks the scriptures that he's able to make say what he wants them to say while ignoring the rest. The true mark of a cult member who denies the deity of Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's because you are still locked to a physical nation called Israel.

So is God. He chose them for his people.

You have no ability to understand the Kingdom of God that Christ came with that includes peoples from all nations is NOT the physical Kingdom that was of Old!

I know. I agree. Be that as it may. Those true facts do not contradict the idea that God has chosen a race of people to be his people.

It is the spiritual Kingdom of God that every human of faith enters into when they are born again/from above.

Agree. I never said otherwise.

Who are the sons and daughters of Jacob? According to you they are ethnic Jews of faith only.

No. The sons and daughters of Jacob are physically related to Jacob whether they have faith or not.

According to Scripture it is not through ethnicity that one becomes a son/daughter through Jacob's SEED (Christ). We become a son/daughter of Jacob according to grace through faith, not according to our natural birth. But you can't see this because you read the New Covenant as if there is still only one chosen people of God.

You are mistaken. You are confusing two different ideas. Paul never argued that we are sons and daughters of Jacob through Christ. He argued that we are sons and daughters of Abraham through Christ. (Galatians 3:29)

So you think the house of Judah and the house of Israel are NOT the seeds of Israel (Jacob)?

No. Houses are not seeds. What I mean is, a "house" in the Bible is a ruling dynasty. For example, the house of David includes David, Solomon, and all the other sons of David including Jesus.

God tells Israel, through the prophet Jeremiah that he will make a New Covenant between the House of Jacob and the House of Israel. In that context, the nation had split up into the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom and God is declaring that the houses will be united once again.

The Covenant of Redemption is only NEW in the sense that from Old it was primarily Israelites.

What makes the covenant "new" is the hearts of the people. The covenant becomes "new" because God will sanctify their hearts.

In fact for a Gentile to come into the Covenant body they would have to convert to Judaism or be married to a Jew. But in no way was the Covenant through Christ, the Covenant of Redemption ever the sole possession of Israel. As I've pointed out Abraham, called the Father of the faithful was not an Israelite. He was in fact a Gentile. But according to you he does not belong to Christ because he was never of the house of Judah or Israel.

Not according to me. I never said such a thing.

How did Abraham become a man of saving faith, belong to the New Covenant through Christ? God preached the Gospel to him, and he BELIEVED (had faith) God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. The New Covenant through this Gentile man, named Abraham, God telling him "all the families of the earth would be blessed" through his SEED (Christ). How can you possibly deny the New Covenant has always been to ALL people of faith without regarding their ethnicity.

Did I deny this. I don't think so. I told you that the New Covenant BELONGS to THEM, and that the Gentiles are grafted on to it.

Romans 9:3-5

For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.​

See that. It belongs to them.

You read this verse in isolation from what else Paul has written. Paul tells us exactly what people shall be called "Israel of God." They are not exclusively of the circumcision, but the uncircumcision also.

Paul does not refer to the church or believers as the Israel of God. Galatians 6:15-16 mentions two sets of people: 1) peace be on them, and 2) and mercy upon the Israel of God.

Yes, according to Scripture they are people from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue! Not one nation, but every nation of this world.

Okay. Even so, there is only one chosen race and the Gentiles aren't it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Why did you stop there?

Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,...
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul immediately identifies who "His people" are. They are a remnant which He foreknew according to the election of grace.

That is the Church of regenerate Jews and Gentiles.

That is not true. Paul is discussing Israel, not the church. Isaiah never complained to God about the church. The church is not being reduced to a remnant. And Paul is not arguing that he is a member of a church. He argues that he is an Israelite because he is from the tribe of Benjamin.

Peter confirms it.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Same thing here. Peter is talking about his kinsmen.

God is not a racist.

God chose a race. That's what the Bible teaches.

 

[CadyandZoe]

He stopped there because he cherry picks the scriptures that he's able to make say what he wants them to say while ignoring the rest. The true mark of a cult member who denies the deity of Christ.

And you have no argument refuting mine. All you have is your typical insults and ad hominem. Boring.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And you have no argument refuting mine. All you have is your typical insults and ad hominem. Boring.

I have destroyed your arguments repeatedly. And it's not hard. Talk about boring....

 

[rwb]

I know. I agree. Be that as it may. Those true facts do not contradict the idea that God has chosen a race of people to be his people.

Yes, it's called the HUMAN RACE! People from throughout the human race who are of faith are His people!

No. The sons and daughters of Jacob are physically related to Jacob whether they have faith or not.

But only those physically related to Jacob spiritually are of the New Covenant through Christ. Those who remain in unbelief shall meet with the same fate as that of Israel of Old that died in the wilderness in unbelief.

You are mistaken. You are confusing two different ideas. Paul never argued that we are sons and daughters of Jacob through Christ. He argued that we are sons and daughters of Abraham through Christ. (Galatians 3:29)

Actually the SEED (Christ) of faith came through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You give the verse that proves ALL (Jew & Gentile) IN CHRIST belong to the SEED (Christ) of Abraham. But then you deny sons and daughters through the fathers of Old are Jews and Gentiles together in Christ.

Galatians 3:29 (KJV) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

No. Houses are not seeds. What I mean is, a "house" in the Bible is a ruling dynasty. For example, the house of David includes David, Solomon, and all the other sons of David including Jesus.

God tells Israel, through the prophet Jeremiah that he will make a New Covenant between the House of Jacob and the House of Israel. In that context, the nation had split up into the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom and God is declaring that the houses will be united once again.

Houses are not seeds??? I think you need to go and study about lineages, because here you appear to be clueless. The lineage of all comes via seeds.

Did I deny this. I don't think so. I told you that the New Covenant BELONGS to THEM, and that the Gentiles are grafted on to it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The New Covenant belongs to all from among the human race who are of faith in Christ! Gentiles who were in unbelief and were born again of Christ are grafted into Christ with Jews of faith! We are NOT grafted into ethnic Jews! In fact many Jews who were also in unbelief, since the advent of Christ have been grafted into Christ through Gentiles of faith who proclaimed the Gospel to them, and they turned from unbelief to faith in Christ.

Paul does not refer to the church or believers as the Israel of God. Galatians 6:15-16 mentions two sets of people: 1) peace be on them, and 2) and mercy upon the Israel of God.

Yes, and those of the Israel of God are not of God by circumcision nor by uncircumcision, but by grace through faith that is in Christ alone. Has nothing to do with ethnicity, but is always according to faith. All who are of the same faith belong to Abraham's SEED (Christ) and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Okay. Even so, there is only one chosen race and the Gentiles aren't it.

Really? God chose to save those from among the human race (mankind) according to grace through faith! But you argue that Gentiles are not among the human race whom God has chosen to save from among ALL mankind???

 

[covenantee]

That is not true.

It is eminently true.

Paul is discussing Israel, not the church.

Paul is discussing the Israelite constituency of the Church of which he is a member, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace.

Isaiah never complained to God about the church.

True. Quite the opposite; he prophesied of the coming of the Head of the Church, Messiah. Isaiah 9:6-7

The church is not being reduced to a remnant.

The Israelite constituency of the Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, is a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace.

And Paul is not arguing that he is a member of a church.

Paul is a member of a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace, the Israelite constituency of the Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles,

He argues that he is an Israelite because he is from the tribe of Benjamin.

He argues that he is a member of a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace, the Israelite constituency of the Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles,

Same thing here. Peter is talking about his kinsmen.

He is talking about his kinsmen, the Church.

God chose a race. That's what the Bible teaches.

You choose a race. You are devoted to dispensational zionist racism.

God chooses those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son regardless of race. That is the clear and irrefutable teaching of Scripture.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have destroyed your arguments repeatedly. And it's not hard. Talk about boring....

If you did I must have missed it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, it's called the HUMAN RACE! People from throughout the human race who are of faith are His people!

God declares that the descendants of Jacob are his chosen race.

Deuteronomy 4:37

Because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them. And He personally brought you from Egypt by His great power,​

​

But only those physically related to Jacob spiritually are of the New Covenant through Christ.

Yes, I agree. The New Covenant in Christ does not depend on ancestry or lineage.

Those who remain in unbelief shall meet with the same fate as that of Israel of Old that died in the wilderness in unbelief.

Yes, I agree. Those who fear the Lord and share the same faith as Abraham will enter ionic life.

Actually the SEED (Christ) of faith came through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You give the verse that proves ALL (Jew & Gentile) IN CHRIST belong to the SEED (Christ) of Abraham. But then you deny sons and daughters through the fathers of Old are Jews and Gentiles together in Christ.

Yes, I disagree with your conclusion. It does not follow that since the spiritual sons of Abraham are both Jews and Gentiles together in Christ, this means that Peter allegorizes the phrase "chosen race" to indicate the church.

There is only one chosen race. The question remains, for what purpose were they chosen as a race? Salvation of their souls? No.

Houses are not seeds??? I think you need to go and study about lineages, because here you appear to be clueless. The lineage of all comes via seeds.

I seem to have miscommunicated. What I meant to say is this. Jeremiah preached good news to Israel and especially when he announced that the Lord would make a new covenant with the House of Jacob and the House of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-32 This is significant for many reasons, but among them is the idea that God will reunite the houses again under the New Covenant. This is why Paul says that the covenant belongs to them.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The New Covenant belongs to all from among the human race who are of faith in Christ!

Paul draws a distinction between ownership of the covenant and participation in the covenant. At the beginning of Romans 9, Paul declares that the covenant belongs to his kinsmen. (Romans 9:4) Nevertheless, participation in the covenant is by faith. Romans 11:17-24, which not only includes his kinsmen but other people as well.

Gentiles who were in unbelief and were born again of Christ are grafted into Christ with Jews of faith!

Agreed.

We are NOT grafted into ethnic Jews!

Never said we were.

Yes, and those of the Israel of God are not of God by circumcision nor by uncircumcision, but by grace through faith that is in Christ alone.

I disagree. The Israel of God consists of the descendants of Jacob who fear the Lord.

Has nothing to do with ethnicity,

Yes, it does. That is why it is called the "Israel" of God, named after the Patriarch where it began.

but is always according to faith.

Agreed. The Israel of God consists of believers.

All who are of the same faith belong to Abraham's SEED (Christ) and heirs according to the promise.

Agreed. The Israel of God shares Abraham's faith.

Really? God chose to save those from among the human race (mankind) according to grace through faith! But you argue that Gentiles are not among the human race whom God has chosen to save from among ALL mankind???

No. I argue that the phrase "chosen race" should be taken literally rather than symbolically.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It is eminently true.

Paul is discussing the Israelite constituency of the Church of which he is a member, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace.

I disagree for the following reasons. First, even a casual reader of Paul's epistle to the Romans will notice that his focus changes beginning in chapter 9, where he discusses the nation of Israel. He only mentions Israel in those three chapters. Second, in those passages, he mentions several negative things about Israel's past, which are not true of the Church.

Finally, a casual reader will notice that Paul's main discourse ends after chapter 5, where he begins chapter 6, asking a series of rhetorical questions. He continues this course of discussion into chapter 11, which opens with the following question.

Romans 11:1-2

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.​

Paul defines God's people in ethnic terms, arguing that although he is an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin, God has not rejected him.

Okay? But what about national Israel? If God is saving people from every tongue, nationality, family line, etc., then it is reasonable to say that God will continue to save individual Jews, including Paul. But what about national Israel? The Apostle addresses that question next.

Romans 11:11

I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. ​

The church did not transgress so that salvation might come to the Gentiles. It was Israel that transgressed, placing the Messiah on a cross. Even so, that stumble didn't result in the fall of national Israel.

True. Quite the opposite; he prophesied of the coming of the Head of the Church, Messiah. Isaiah 9:6-7

The Israelite constituency of the Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, is a remnant that God foreknew according to the election of grace.

God is saving both Jews and Gentiles by faith; but it doesn't follow, therefore, that the term "Israel" symbolically represents the church.

He is talking about his kinsmen, the Church.

The term “kinsmen” refers to blood relations.

You choose a race. You are devoted to dispensational zionist racism.

You have no proof to support your charge. For some reason, you decided to read my comments through those lenses.

God chooses those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son regardless of race. That is the clear and irrefutable teaching of Scripture.

I disagree. A person becomes faithful and fears the Lord because God has first chosen him or her.

 

[rwb]

God declares that the descendants of Jacob are his chosen race.

What did God choose them for? If the biological descendants of Jacob were those chosen to be saved, why did the multitude of them die in the wilderness in unbelief?

Read Deuteronomy 4 in context and it's plain that God chose the biological seeds of Jacob to inherit the promised land. They were chosen to show the world the mighty works of God. When they received the inheritance of land promised them, they were to have been the light bearers of God that the whole earth might be filled with His glory. Instead of bringing the nations around them the light of God, they became like the nations that God drove out of the promised land that they had opportunity to possess forever.

It does not follow that since the spiritual sons of Abraham are both Jews and Gentiles together in Christ, this means that Peter allegorizes the phrase "chosen race" to indicate the church.

There is only one chosen race. The question remains, for what purpose were they chosen as a race? Salvation of their souls? No.

Peter's epistle is written for Christians of whom are both Jew and Gentile of faith together. It is the Church of Christ where there is neither male nor female, rich or poor, Jew or Gentile, but one holy people unto God, called Christian through Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 2:4-10 (KJV) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

I seem to have miscommunicated. What I meant to say is this. Jeremiah preached good news to Israel and especially when he announced that the Lord would make a new covenant with the House of Jacob and the House of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-32 This is significant for many reasons, but among them is the idea that God will reunite the houses again under the New Covenant. This is why Paul says that the covenant belongs to them.

Jeremiah's prophecy is fulfilled and continues to be fulfilled IN CHRIST!

I disagree. The Israel of God consists of the descendants of Jacob who fear the Lord.

Israel of God has NOTHING to do with circumcision nor uncircumcision! Has nothing to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with belonging to the SEED (Christ) who physically descended through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and is also of the supernatural SEED of God, being born of God, the Holy Spirit. That's why Christ is both God and man at the same time. Yes, I know you deny this TRUTH!

No. I argue that the phrase "chosen race" should be taken literally rather than symbolically.

Who said anything about the "chosen race" from among ALL of humanity being symbolic? You simply don't seem to understand the difference between the biological nation being chosen to inherit physical land in Canaan, and those chosen to inherit the whole earth. The first being physical was through their obedience to the Law the other being spiritual is through faith according to God's grace.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What did God choose them for?

Peter tells us the reason. Note the sentence I highlighted in bold.

1 Peter 1:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; ​

God chose a people for himself -- a family -- to act as his representatives among the rest of the world so that they may "proclaim the excellencies of God -- Yahweh.

If the biological descendants of Jacob were those chosen to be saved, why did the multitude of them die in the wilderness in unbelief?

They weren't chosen to be saved. They were chosen to live holy lives.

Read Deuteronomy 4 in context and it's plain that God chose the biological seeds of Jacob to inherit the promised land. They were chosen to show the world the mighty works of God. When they received the inheritance of land promised them, they were to have been the light bearers of God that the whole earth might be filled with His glory. Instead of bringing the nations around them the light of God, they became like the nations that God drove out of the promised land that they had opportunity to possess forever.

That's right.

Peter's epistle is written for Christians of whom are both Jew and Gentile of faith together.

I disagree. Peter is writing to Christians of whom are members of the Ten Tribes who are scattered among the nations.

It is the Church of Christ where there is neither male nor female, rich or poor, Jew or Gentile, but one holy people unto God, called Christian through Christ Jesus our Lord.

I agree. But Peter's point is this. Since God chose their race to be a holy people, living among the Gentiles, they should act like God's holy people.

Jeremiah's prophecy is fulfilled and continues to be fulfilled IN CHRIST!

Some people seem to miss the fact that Jeremiah spoke of two distinct covenants in chapter 31. Verse 31 mentions a covenant; and Verse 33 mentions another covenant. First God will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Then, after those days, God will make another covenant with the House of Israel exclusively. Jesus is responsible for Both.

The Gentiles are grafted to the New Covenant as specified in verse 31. They are not grafted to the covenant mentioned in verse 33 because while the House of Israel will be required to keep Moses, the Gentiles will not. The House of Israel will have the Law of Moses written on their hearts. This covenant will be enforced during the Millennial period.

Israel of God has NOTHING to do with circumcision nor uncircumcision!

It is named "the Israel of God" because it's progenitor is Israel. And since circumcision is a requirement for entering Israel, then it has everything to do with circumcision.

Has nothing to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with belonging to the SEED (Christ) who physically descended through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and is also of the supernatural SEED of God, being born of God, the Holy Spirit.

If Paul or any other apostle wanted to speak symbolically about the Church, it would be called the House of Abraham, since Christians -- both Jew and Gentile -- are the seed of Abraham. The Israel of God are the physical descendants of Israel who are also spiritually sanctified.

Who said anything about the "chosen race" from among ALL of humanity being symbolic?

Your view implies a figurative use of "race" does it not? I think it does.

You simply don't seem to understand the difference between the biological nation being chosen to inherit physical land in Canaan, and those chosen to inherit the whole earth.

What makes you think that I can't make that distinction?