No Resurrection, No Millennium

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n2thelight

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All of this speculation contradicts scripture.

Further Bible contradiction.
Nobody receives immortality until the GWT Judgment, when the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:12
What's the contradiction ? Who may I ask comes with Christ at His 2nd and only return ?
Does not scripture say that all that died in Him comes back with Him ?

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

And far as immortality , you are correct , however those who are in Christ need not worry about the 2nd death .

The majority of Christians will be deceived by satan pretending to be Christ however, many will come out of her ,when the below verse happens

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

This is the next time true tongues will be spoken, don't no what this babble is now but that's another subject. Between the two witnesses and the above many as stated will come out of the whore (confusion) those who don't , those who don't ,although changed will have a mortal soul.

The below is what they will be saying at Christ return

Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

This is at the return of Christ

They gonna wanna die in their shame but they can't ,per the below

Revelation 9:6 "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Now why do you think they can't die ? The reason is that they have changed into their spiritual bodies and only God can kill the soul

People will not no that they have been in bed with the false Christ until the true Christ returns
 

ewq1938

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Revelation 9:6 "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Now why do you think they can't die ?


It doesn't say they can't die, but that they want to die but can't find death. They will die when God wants them to. They do not have the spiritual body. That only is given to believers and only at the 7th trump not the 5th trump for non-believers. Why would non-believers in the 5th trump have spiritual bodies anyways??
 

n2thelight

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It doesn't say they can't die, but that they want to die but can't find death. They will die when God wants them to. They do not have the spiritual body. That only is given to believers and only at the 7th trump not the 5th trump for non-believers. Why would non-believers in the 5th trump have spiritual bodies anyways??
I'm speaking of at His return at the 7th trump . All will be changed , you either gonna have a mortal soul or a immortal one period
 

ewq1938

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I'm speaking of at His return at the 7th trump . All will be changed , you either gonna have a mortal soul or a immortal one period


That is wrong. Only the righteous are changed, the living changed to immortals and the dead resurrected as immortal. The unrighteous never get either as theirs is called the resurrection to damnation.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Who is he speaking to and about? The brethren who are saved Christians.


1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

We is not "they".


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

He is not speaking of what happens to the unsaved.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

n2thelight

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That is wrong. Only the righteous are changed, the living changed to immortals and the dead resurrected as immortal. The unrighteous never get either as theirs is called the resurrection to damnation.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Who is he speaking to and about? The brethren who are saved Christians.


1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

We is not "they".


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

He is not speaking of what happens to the unsaved.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
My Bible says ALL shall be changed . Question , the rich man in Heaven on the other side of the gulf , what kind of body does he have ?
 

rwb

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True. You're not resurrected yet, nor in the resurrection of the dead, except in your own mind.

They are not physically resurrected, they are ALIVE spiritually in heaven after death because God is God of the living, not the dead. How are they spiritually alive in heaven after physical death? Before death they had part in the first resurrection through Christ, who is the first resurrection of the dead to immortality and incorruption.
Their bodies still are.

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

You're spiritual millennium is a pathetic joke of nothingness, born of a self-inflated sense of scholarly pretence.

There won't be a physical resurrection from the graves until the seventh angel sounds the hour coming on the last day of this age. Those who have done good, like the patriarch David, will spiritually return with the Lord from heaven to receive his resurrected immortal and incorruptible physical body from the grave for everlasting life. The dead in the graves in the hour coming, who have done evil shall also be resurrected for damnation.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Because they will be that way when resurrected from the graves?
You do every time you sin. OSAS by faith alone is dead, and resurrection by doctrine alone is delusional.

Like most who lack faith, you don't believe Christ when He tells us, whosoever lives and believes in Him SHALL NEVER DIE!

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Perhaps you simply lack understanding of 'eternal life'? Eternal means: perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):—eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began). Never in this verse is a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all:—any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise).

You can never understand the truth of God's Word without faith to believe all that Christ has said. Sadly, you lack faith Gilligan!

You do every time you sin. OSAS by faith alone is dead, and resurrection by doctrine alone is delusional.

Now you prove not only that you have not faith to believe Christ, but also your ignorance of Scripture! When I sin, and I do sometimes, I have Christ my advocate who not only has forgiven but continues to forgive. I'm not kept by my own ability to be good, I am saved, and being saved, and shall be saved because I know and believe Christ, who has given me assurance of the everlasting life I have through Him. Sadly you show you have not this assurance, and so you vehemently respond to anyone who does have this blessed assurance, just as we have come to expect from anyone who is still under the power of the evil one.

True, if we endure and overcome temptation unto the end. Otherwise, we wake up in hell like all them that die in their sins.

What an odd answer? Do you not realize those who have died and spiritually gone to heaven HAVE ALREADY endured to the end? They are since physical death present with the Lord in heaven a spiritual body, and will be physically resurrected immortal and incorruptible in the hour that is coming when every physical body in the graves will be resurrected either for life or damnation.

Indwelt is a cute word.

Forever is now and in the end, if we keep ourselves from sinning, so that the devil touches us not.

Doctrinal salvation is worthless without doing it. Only those doing righteousness of God are righteous as He. Doctrinal righteousness only is dead faith alone trusting in one's own imagined justification.

I'm glad you like the word 'indwelt'. I get this word from Scripture because Christ said His Spirit shall be IN US. The Bible NEVER presents being saved as a work of man. In FACT the Bible says exactly the opposite! But as I've already said, you show through your replies that you lack faith and therefore have NOT understanding of the written Word of God.

Believing we are saves is not the same as being saved. Just because we believe something, doesn't make it so.

It makes is so when Christ says it!!! And He has said when we live and believe in Him we shall NEVER DIE! That means nothing to you because you have NOT faith to believe Christ. I can't imagine anyone posting here would think of you as a serious-minded student of the Bible??? You actually come across as one who fights against God and disparages His Word!

All angels and men are created spiritual beings with thought and intent and imagination of th eheart and mind.

And so, angels and men can have vain imaginations of their minds. Lucifer thinks in his heart to be God, and you think in your heart to be an angel in heaven. You're both delusional.

Are you being deliberately daft? Mankind is body (dust) spirit (breath of life, mental acuity) and together called living souls. The spirit (breath of life, mind) in man possesses ETERNAL LIFE that shall NEVER DIE when we are born again of Christ's life-giving Spirit. It is through His Spirit in us, giving us life that we ascend to heaven spirit souls after our body dies. Our body returns to dust from which it came. You seem to have knowledge of Satan, too bad you have not knowledge of Christ through faith.

True. They're not yet resurrected and as angels with immortal bodies as angels. And especially not any person still in natural bodies on earth.

Angels have NO body, because they are spirit, not flesh. To be immortal speaks of man's flesh, not spirits. When we live and believe in Christ we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, so in death we become as are the angels in heaven, celestial beings, spirits as they are. This is true for all who die in FAITH, because while still alive they have part in the first resurrection through Christ when they were born again/born from above.

Hebrews 1:7 (KJV) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Spirit: πνεῦμα pneûma, pnyoo'-mah - a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind.

There is nothing more that I need to add here because without faith you shall NEVER understand. Your mind and heart appear as dark as your lack of understanding of God's Word!
 

rwb

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True. In the resurrection of the dead, saints will be as angels in heaven with immortal resurrected bodies.

Angels have not immortal bodies! Can you not even understand the difference between spirit and flesh?
 

rwb

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Those who think they are already resurrected into heaven with immortal bodies as angels, are well, cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

Immortal bodies as angels? Talk about cuckoo for cocoa puffs! Do you still not understand angels are spirits, not flesh!
 
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ewq1938

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My Bible says ALL shall be changed .

And your bible says "brethren" and "we". All of them will be changed. None of the unbelievers shall be changed.

You avoided addressing how and why unbelievers could have spiritual bodies in the 5th trump BEFORE any believe does.


Question , the rich man in Heaven on the other side of the gulf , what kind of body does he have ?

Imaginary. He doesn't have a changed body like the raptured saints get at the 7th trump.
 

Keraz

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And your bible says "brethren" and "we". All of them will be changed. None of the unbelievers shall be changed.
That Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, refers to what will happen at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. For Eternity.

The people who attack Jesus, in Revelation 20:7-9, get killed, so there is still Death up to that point.
 
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n2thelight

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And your bible says "brethren" and "we". All of them will be changed. None of the unbelievers shall be changed.

You avoided addressing how and why unbelievers could have spiritual bodies in the 5th trump BEFORE any believe does.




Imaginary. He doesn't have a changed body like the raptured saints get at the 7th trump.
What ! Is the rich man not changed , or do you think he's in Heaven in a flesh body
 

Keraz

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The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, is located near the end of a long line of parables in Luke 15 to 16—the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son, the unjust steward and finally the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

In each of these parables we don’t expect every detail to be literal. We don’t need to strive to have the features of a sheep or become metal like a coin or even become a wayward son, instead, we should learn the spiritual principles that Jesus is trying to teach from each parable.

In no way is Jesus telling a literal story in any of them, so to try and use any of these parables as a literal situation, is error and foolishness.
There is no 'heaven or hell, no 'paradise or hades', that we humans are consigned to after our death, we all await the GWT Judgment; after the Millennium. THEN, the wicked are annihilated and the righteous are made immortal. Revelation 20:11-15 and Revelation 21 to 22
 

ewq1938

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What ! Is the rich man not changed , or do you think he's in Heaven in a flesh body


He is in hades with no body. He was not "changed" like the raptured saints shall be changed.
 

n2thelight

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And your bible says "brethren" and "we". All of them will be changed. None of the unbelievers shall be changed.

You avoided addressing how and why unbelievers could have spiritual bodies in the 5th trump BEFORE any believe does.




Imaginary. He doesn't have a changed body like the raptured saints get at the 7th trump.
True they don't have they same body when changed as those not in Christ for although changed their soul will be mortal .
 

n2thelight

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He is in hades with no body. He was not "changed" like the raptured saints shall be changed.
Not understanding , with no body what is he ? Since no one other than satan and his angels have been sentenced to death .

What kind of body do the angels have?
 

n2thelight

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Just a bodiless soul/spirit like anyone who is dead.


An angelic body, of flesh. Looks human but is much more.
No one is dead yet , so what the heck is a bodiless spirit ? Do you think we just some energy floating around

Just a bodiless soul/spirit like anyone who is dead.




An angelic body, of flesh. Looks human but is much more.
At death all get that much more, just a matter of mortal vs Immortal

Let's hear from Paul

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Is this not talking about those who have died ? No mention of saved or unsaved

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?


I Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:"

This is what happens to the dead body, for this body is doomed to corruption of decay from the day each of us are born, to the day we die. That is the ageing process, and no matter how you try to extend your life, it will not be for more than a few years. When this flesh body is finished, the soul that is within it is raised in incorruption. We are talking about flesh bodies, and what happen to them.

Our flesh bodies are corruptible, and it is the greatest pollutant on the face of this earth. It is for the satisfaction of the needs of the flesh that all pollution is caused, whether in the air, in the waters, or across our land, all pollution is for the satisfying of these flesh bodies that are corrupting or decaying and need attention to be repaired. Flesh is corruptible. However when the corruptible body is planted in the earth, a new body comes for that does not desire nor need then things of the flesh to satisfy its needs. This new body is our incorruptible soul body.

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

Once you die or at the return of Christ ALL step out of the flesh that was only needed to house our soul while here on earth .


It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The 'Last Trump', must be the final and ultimate end to Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind. It will call all the dead up from their graves for Judgment; Revelation 20:12

The 7th Trumpet of the great tribulation, is not the last trump, proved by another one when Jesus Returns. 1 Thessalonians 4:12

The Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is all about that time, the final Judgment. Proved by how Death is then no more,- Revelation 21:4
Paul taught that the dead in Christ will be raised at the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

And he also taught that they would be raised at the return of Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So, this means that Christ will return at the last trumpet and the dead in Christ will be raised at that time. The following passage confirms this as well:

1 Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

So, your belief that the last trumpet sounds 1,000+ years after Christ's return does not line up with these scriptures.
 
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strepho

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Second Corinthians chapter 5:8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. When person dies, there soul immediately goes back to the Father. No one lies in hole in the ground. Only the heathen believe that nonsense. When Jesus returns 7th trump, this starts the millennium. Documentation, revelation chapter 20. The millennium is time of teaching for the spirtualty dead. Read revelation chapter 20 and Ezekiel chapter 44.