No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GracePeace]

Here is where your gospel of self righteousness comes crashing down.
I will just let the word of God correct your faulty thinking

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

Ephesians 2:9
not of works, lest anyone should boast

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Walking in faith is not works/self righteousness, it is grace/God's righteousness.

 

[GracePeace]

Here is where your gospel of self righteousness comes crashing down.
I will just let the word of God correct your faulty thinking

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

Ephesians 2:9
not of works, lest anyone should boast

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Yep, He saved us--and, according to 1 Co 10, He showed us that if we live sinfully after that salvation, we'll still be destroyed in His wrath and not inherit the promise, like the Jewish Christians were "storing up wrath" for their hypocrisy in Ro 2.

As Ro 14:23 shows, the Christian who doesn't walk in faith is condemned, not justified, for not walking in faith/God's righteousness.

The entire Bible, and all Church history, denounces your view.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Walking in faith is not works/self righteousness, it is grace/God's righteousness.

I will go with the biblical defenition. You go with yours

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yep, He saved us--and, according to 1 Co 10, He showed us that if we live sinfully after that salvation, we'll still be destroyed in His wrath and not inherit the promise, like the Jewish Christians were "storing up wrath" for their hypocrisy in Ro 2.

As Ro 14:23 shows, the Christian who doesn't walk in faith is condemned, not justified, for not walking in faith/God's righteousness.

The entire Bible, and all Church history, denounces your view.

Then you are not saved

good luck trying to earn salvation

 

[GracePeace]

I will go with the biblical defenition. You go with yours

How is God's righteousness "a righteousness of my own"?

 

[GracePeace]

Then you are not saved

good luck trying to earn salvation

The Jews, through Passover, were saved, but they still sinned in the wilderness, so God destroyed them in His wrath, and they forfeited what was promised--this was written down to teach us who, through "Christ our Passover Lamb", are saved, that if we live in sin after being saved we will also be destroyed under wrath and forfeit what He promised us (1 Co 10).

Sorry, I gotta stick with the Bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How is God's righteousness "a righteousness of my own"?

God did his righteousness 2000 years ago when he walked the earth, by keeping the law

Your righteousness is as filthy rags, If you stood in front of christ today based on how good or bad you are. You would be condemned where you stood.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Jews, through Passover, were saved, but they still sinned in the wilderness, so God destroyed them in His wrath, and they forfeited what was promised--this was written down to teach us who, through "Christ our Passover Lamb", are saved, that if we live in sin after being saved we will also be destroyed under wrath and forfeit what He promised us (1 Co 10).

Sorry, I gotta stick with the Bible.

Stick with what bible?

The jews continued to prove they had no faith. The complained from the time they left until the time they died. No proof of faith. No anything

I love how you love to quote james, Yet these jews who had zero works. You say they were saved.

Go ahead and stick with your perverted self righteous gospel.

I will stick with the word of God and what he says about our righteousness as being like filthy (literally bloody) rags.

You want to hand God those rags as payment for sin, feel free..

 

[GracePeace]

God did his righteousness 2000 years ago when he walked the earth, by keeping the law

Your righteousness is as filthy rags, If you stood in front of christ today based on how good or bad you are. You would be condemned where you stood.

Yeah, God did His righteousness, and God does His righteousness today : "obey, for it is God is at work in us to will and to do for His good pleasure". When God is at work in us to will and to do for His good pleasure, is that not God's righteousness?

 

[GracePeace]

Stick with what bible?

The jews continued to prove they had no faith. The complained from the time they left until the time they died. No proof of faith. No anything

They were saved from Egypt by Passover, and we are saved from slavery to sin through "Christ our Passover".
They were saved in a type, not saved as an antitype as we are.
Their salvation pointed to the reality of our salvation, it wasn't the real salvation that we have.
Still, as Paul says, it paralleled ours, and teaches us about ours.
For instance, they had the cloud of the Presence (the Spirit), they were baptized into Moses, they ate and drank spiritual food an drink, and yet because they sinned they fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise--just as we can sin and forfeit the promise made to us.

I love how you love to quote james, Yet these jews who had zero works. You say they were saved.

James : ah, yes, "faith alone" doesn't save.

Go ahead and stick with your perverted self righteous gospel.

God's righteousness.

I will stick with the word of God and what he says about our righteousness as being like filthy (literally bloody) rags.

You don't know God's Word, as evinced by this conversation.

You want to hand God those rags as payment for sin, feel free..

God's righteousness is not a righteousness of my own--it's God at work in me.

 

[CadyandZoe]

John didn't say "get into Christ", he said "remain in Christ"--just as the picture of the branches that don't remain will be thrown in the fire.

So. I was talking about Romans 8 and what Paul means by "in Christ." I was not talking about what John means by it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They were saved from Egypt by Passover, and we are saved from slavery to sin through "Christ our Passover".

Yes, they were saved by slavery

But they never entered the promised land, Because they continued in unbelief

many a people are saved from slavery, but never come to saving faith, they fill our churches every weekend.

They were saved in a type, not saved as an antitype as we are.
Their salvation pointed to the reality of our salvation, it wasn't the real salvation that we have.

No actually it showed the futility of a lack of faith in God

God said I will free you and take you to the promised land. They rejected Gods plan, and continued to want to go back to Egypt. So God swore they would never enter his rest

Still, as Paul says, it paralleled ours, and teaches us about ours.
For instance, they had the cloud of the Presence (the Spirit), they were baptized into Moses, they ate and drank spiritual food an drink, and yet because they sinned they fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise--just as we can sin and forfeit the promise made to us.

James : ah, yes, "faith alone" doesn't save.

God's righteousness.

You don't know God's Word, as evinced by this conversation.

God's righteousness is not a righteousness of my own--it's God at work in me.

lol. You will answer to God one day. Like those jews who thought they were saved by their works.

I will pray for you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So. I was talking about Romans 8 and what Paul means by "in Christ." I was not talking about what John means by it.

I find it amazing his nic is GracePeace. Yet he refuses to teach either grace or peace..

 

[CadyandZoe]

BELIEF ITSELF IS OBEDIENCE

No. Belief is not obedience. Try to maintain common sense in our discussions. Belief is nothing more and nothing less than affirming a truth claim.

 

[GracePeace]

So. I was talking about Romans 8 and what Paul means by "in Christ." I was not talking about what John means by it.

LOL So John means one thing, and Paul means something else?
Are you saying that because you finally realize John is explicit that we remain "in Him" by keeping His commands?
Denying they speak of the same thing to preserve your doctrine.
Interesting "exegetical" tactic.

 

[GracePeace]

No. Belief is not obedience. Try to maintain common sense in our discussions. Belief is nothing more and nothing less than affirming a truth claim.

Yup, it's obedience, because God's command is you believe in the Name of His Son (1 Jn 3:23).
God gives a command, and it is obedience to do it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You were the one who raised the topic of "Apollos".

I never mentioned Apollos. My point was to use scripture to show how people talked about becoming disciples of a teacher. When Paul asked the disciples, "Into what were you baptized?" the logical answer should have been "water." Instead, the disciples answered "John's baptism." Why? Because Paul wasn't inquiring about the substance into which they were immersed; he was asking about the teachings they were immersed in. In other words, Paul wanted to know the identity of their teacher and what he taught.

I am talking about word usage. What did someone mean when they said that they were "in Christ?" It meant that someone had officially made a commitment to learn from Jesus and walk according to his teaching.

In Romans 8, Paul narrows the focus to a subgroup of those who are "in Christ" who have the Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ. Paul refers to these individuals as "elect," "chosen," and "saints." Not everyone who initially begins as a believer in Jesus, becoming his disciple will abide in Christ and remain with him. But ALL of those who are "elect", having the Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ will be raised from the dead and granted eternal life. There are no exceptions.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, they were saved by slavery

But they never entered the promised land, Because they continued in unbelief

They were saved from physical slavery in Egypt by Passover.
We are saved from spiritual slavery in satan's kingdom by Christ our Passover.
They sinned after salvation and were destroyed under wrath and forfeited the promise.
If we sin after salvation the same goes for us.

many a people are saved from slavery, but never come to saving faith, they fill our churches every weekend.

Being saved from spiritual slavery by Christ our Passover is salvation.

No actually it showed the futility of a lack of faith in God

God said I will free you and take you to the promised land. They rejected Gods plan, and continued to want to go back to Egypt. So God swore they would never enter his rest

Paul says it was written to teach us about Christianity.

lol. You will answer to God one day. Like those jews who thought they were saved by their works.

They sinned and fell under God's wrath, and it was written down to teach us about Christianity.

 

[GracePeace]

I never mentioned Apollos. My point was to use scripture to show how people talked about becoming disciples of a teacher. When Paul asked the disciples, "Into what were you baptized?" the logical answer should have been "water." Instead, the disciples answered "John's baptism." Why? Because Paul wasn't inquiring about the substance into which they were immersed; he was asking about the teachings they were immersed in. In other words, Paul wanted to know the identity of their teacher and what he taught.

Are you saying Jesus was baptized "into John"?
Was Jesus "in John" as we are "in Christ"?
Makes no sense.
No, being "in Christ" is juxtaposed against being "in the flesh" (Ro 7).
Christ "became a life giving spirit" (1 Co 15), so we are "in the spirit, not in the flesh" when we are "in Christ".

I am talking about word usage. What did someone mean when they said that they were "in Christ?" It meant that someone had officially made a commitment to learn from Jesus and walk according to his teaching.

Nope.

In Romans 8, Paul narrows the focus to a subgroup of those who are "in Christ" who have the Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ. Paul refers to these individuals as "elect," "chosen," and "saints." Not everyone who initially begins as a believer in Jesus, becoming his disciple will abide in Christ and remain with him. But ALL of those who are "elect", having the Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ will be raised from the dead and granted eternal life. There are no exceptions.

Except you can't make sense of how someone "in Christ" has "no condemnation", but the believer who doesn't walk in faith "is condemned"--eg, how the Jewish believers were "storing up wrath" for themselves, putting them on the opposite side of men who will receive eternal life when they are judged (Ro 2).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They were saved from physical slavery in Egypt by Passover.
We are saved from spiritual slavery in satan's kingdom by Christ our Passover.
They sinned after salvation and were destroyed under wrath and forfeited the promise.
If we sin after salvation the same goes for us.

Being saved from spiritual slavery by Christ our Passover is salvation.

Paul says it was written to teach us about Christianity.

They sinned and fell under God's wrath, and it was written down to teach us about Christianity.

Like I said, you are a misnomer

Your chosen name is GracePeace. But you preach niether grace nor peace.