No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

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CadyandZoe

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No, actually, I try to square Scripture with Scripture, and people like yourself are of no assistance.
We all make mistakes from time to time. Sometimes the issue isn't comparing scripture with scripture, but rather comparing our interpretation of one passage with our interpretation of another, assuming incorrectly that we have the correct understanding of both.
 

GracePeace

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Romans 8 speaks about God's lack of condemnation. Romans 14 talks about judging each other.
Nope. We've been through this. You failed to prove your case, and we saw, in addition, that no one else (no teachers, no commentaries) agree with your view.
You proceeded to theorize a conspiracy was afoot in the bookstores, because people were money-grubbing, and didn't love God, and that that explained why literally all the teachers debunked your ignorance.
That is how wedded you are to your 2 + 2 = 5 nonsense.
What can I say?
Keep believing nonsense.
It's not that I can't understand you; it's that your interpretation seems to need work.
LOL! Really? No, 2+ 2 = 4. It's really that plain.
The question I asked was, "What exactly is being doubted?" Specifically, we are seeking Paul's response to the question. If Paul doesn't provide an answer, then the word "doubt" is questionable. Unless you can point out in the text where Paul mentioned the specific belief that is being doubted, your interpretation needs improvement.
Nah, it's plain: the word is "waver", and it is plain that it speaks of the one who is not fully convinced of the rightness of his deeds when he's doing them.
When someone lacks conviction, they may question their beliefs or hesitate in their opinions. Nevertheless, eating food is primal, and eating the wrong thing can be deadly. For this reason, I can't imagine anyone eating something they "doubt."
You can't imagine it, but Paul does. Oh, well. You're not on Paul's level, so your opinion is not worth noting.
Matthew 18 isn't relevant to the discussion.
Interesting. We'll leave it at that then.
 

GracePeace

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We all make mistakes from time to time. Sometimes the issue isn't comparing scripture with scripture, but rather comparing our interpretation of one passage with our interpretation of another, assuming incorrectly that we have the correct understanding of both.
You are of no assistance, because your interpretations and assumptions are manifestly incoherent.
 

CadyandZoe

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In the context, it also mentions God being able to forget a man's unrighteousness.
Yes, but being accounted "dikaios" doesn't mean "being accounted righteous" as you supposed. Being accounted "dikaios", as it pertains to Abraham and all of those who share the faith of Abraham, being declared "dikaios" means "being declared "right with God" i.e. God will not punish. These aren't the same thing.
I also proved this is still at play using Matthew 18, to which you have failed to respond--and, actually, you never will adequately respond, because it explodes your entire system.
Jesus warns his disciples, and us through them, that if we are unwilling to forgive someone, then God will not forgive us. However, this passage and warning does not relate to the current question because Paul suggests that those "in Christ" have been given the Spirit of Christ. Therefore, since Jesus is willing to forgive others, and since those in Christ have the spirit of Christ, then they also are willing to forgive others.
I seek to have understanding that is coherent and consistent, no matter how much trouble and grief it causes me. You, on the other hand, are wedded to a system. You have a good reason to be, because you get benefit out of it, however, when it comes to Biblical discussion, you're not helpful.
You are making assumptions about me that aren't true. I forgive you.
 

CadyandZoe

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You are of no assistance, because your interpretations and assumptions are manifestly incoherent.
Do the work. Show how they are coherent. It's easy to make an unfounded accusation. It's another thing to prove it.

Let me ask you a question. When has confrontational dialog ever helped someone arrive at the truth?
 

GracePeace

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Yes, but being accounted "dikaios" doesn't mean "being accounted righteous" as you supposed. Being accounted "dikaios", as it pertains to Abraham and all of those who share the faith of Abraham, being declared "dikaios" means "being declared "right with God" i.e. God will not punish. These aren't the same thing.
Irrelevant: my God forgets righteousness, yours doesn't, so you think God changes. Your God isn't "the same yesterday today and forever".
Jesus warns his disciples, and us through them, that if we are unwilling to forgive someone, then God will not forgive us. However, this passage and warning does not relate to the current question because Paul suggests that those "in Christ" have been given the Spirit of Christ. Therefore, since Jesus is willing to forgive others, and since those in Christ have the spirit of Christ, then they also are willing to forgive others.
No, "they also are willing to forgive others" is not Christ's teaching. Don't lie about Christ. Christ said you must make a choice--and if you make the wrong one, the forgiveness given you will be rescinded. If I taught anything like this, you'd say, "No, that's not possible. You're inventing a teaching based on a lie!" But since Christ says it, it cannot be denied, so you try to find another way to worm your way out of it.
You are making assumptions about me that aren't true. I forgive you.
No, observations, based on my interactions with you, are being made.
 

GracePeace

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Do the work. Show how they are coherent. It's easy to make an unfounded accusation. It's another thing to prove it.

Let me ask you a question. When has confrontational dialog ever helped someone arrive at the truth?
I have shown they are incoherent endlessly--and all teachers and commentaries (including your OSAS brothers) agree with me, and disagree with you, because the reality of the matter really is that self-evident.
 

Bob Estey

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Since there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), why is the sinning Christian "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?

My way of reconciling these is simply recognizing that not all remain in Christ: remaining requires obeying God's commands (i. believe, and ii. walk in love (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24)), but the believer in Ro 14:23 is sinning, so he's not remaining "in Christ", where there is "no condemnation".

Past failed attempts at reconciling the two have included:
1. Romans 14:23 doesn't refer to a sinning believer
2. Believers don't sin at all
3. Thinking Ro 8:1 needs reconciliation with Ro 14:23 proves you're not born of God.

What is your way of reconciling Ro 8:1 with Ro 14:23?
Sinning gets us into trouble. For instance, if you rob a bank, you'll probably go to prison.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Peterlag

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You have me worried..
Half of the manuscripts don't have who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. in Romans 8:1. It is however, in verse 4.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Half of the manuscripts don't have who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. in Romans 8:1. It is however, in verse 4.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them whichesyeyes are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Yes,

there is no condemnation for those in christ.

thats eternal life.

a characteristic of those in christ is they walk not after the flesh but the spirit.

Its not why they are not condemned, It is because they are not condemned
 
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GracePeace

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Yes,

there is no condemnation for those in christ.

thats eternal life.

a characteristic of those in christ is they walk not after the flesh but the spirit.

Its not why they are not condemned, It is because they are not condemned
He doesn't believe your half baked ignorance, guy, he knows what Scripture says.
 

GracePeace

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a characteristic of those in christ is they walk not after the flesh but the spirit.
LOL You literally just admitted, several times, that Christians don't always walk after the spirit.

You even tried to say Romans 7, wherein an unsaved Jew is being mastered by sin, because he's under the Law, not under Grace ("sin will not master you because you're not under Law" Ro 6:14), was a good descriptor of a Christian's life!

What a joke!
 

GracePeace

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Do the work. Show how they are coherent. It's easy to make an unfounded accusation. It's another thing to prove it.
I did do the work. Your reply was, "I know that no one else agrees with my view of the Scriptures on this issue, but the reason all the teachers and commentaries (even those written by people who agree with OSAS, the view I'm trying to preserve) disagree must be because the bookstores, who sell those teachers' books and commentaries that make them money, love money, and not God--they're all conspiring to suppress my view!"
 
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CadyandZoe

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I did do the work. Your reply was, "I know that no one else agrees with my view of the Scriptures on this issue, but the reason all the teachers and commentaries (even those written by people who agree with OSAS, the view I'm trying to preserve) disagree must be because the bookstores, who sell those teachers' books and commentaries that make them money, love money, and not God--they're all conspiring to suppress my view!"
You did not do the work to prove your accusation that my view was "manifestly" incoherent.
 

GracePeace

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You did not do the work to prove your accusation that my view was "manifestly" incoherent.
I did, actually. LOL
Everyone (all commentaries, all teachers) agrees with me.

You remain unconvinced.
That's a force of nature I can't predict.
 

Ritajanice

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Yes,

there is no condemnation for those in christ.

thats eternal life.

a characteristic of those in christ is they walk not after the flesh but the spirit.

How do we become spiritually minded as per scripture below , I’ve underlined it for you in bold?

You also said on another thread that we aren’t led by the Spirit Of God....not according to God’s word below... so how do you account for that?

I mean if we quote scripture we must be able to understand what is being said in said scripture.......in our spirit...that’s where we have been Born Again .yes?
Its not why they are not condemned, It is because they are not condemned

As we see here.​


8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How would we know that we walk after the Spirit?

So, I asked above, if we aren’t led by the Spirit how can we walk after the Spirit?

Walking after the Spirit?

You also said we are not led by the Spirit?..that’s un- belief..God says differently.​

So therefore you are calling God a liar?.so .you aren’t a Son Of God?

Romans 8:14​

King James Version​

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8​


King James Version​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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