No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GracePeace]

This verse, while seemingly relevant, is not applicable to our discussion as it presents a view of meritorious salvation. It's crucial to understand that, according to Jesus and the Apostles, our salvation is a result of grace, not our own works. This understanding is key to our theological exploration.

That isn't true. The Greek word translated "righteousness" in Paul's epistles has three distinct meanings depending on the context. In Paul's view, Abraham was accounted as "justified" by his faith. This is not the same thing as being accounted "righteous," as the Ezekiel passage means.

So, to hold your theological system together, you simply have to be left with extra parts lying around--parts others make use of.

I don't have extra parts.

Your version of God doesn't forget righteousness, my God does forget righteousness, blotting people out of His Book of Life.

 

[GracePeace]

You have me worried..

Because he has a view of Scripture that actually makes sense of its parts?

 

[GracePeace]

This verse, while seemingly relevant, is not applicable to our discussion as it presents a view of meritorious salvation. It's crucial to understand that, according to Jesus and the Apostles, our salvation is a result of grace, not our own works. This understanding is key to our theological exploration.

In the context, it also mentions God being able to forget a man's unrighteousness.

Therefore, since the dynamic of God forgetting unrighteousness is still at play, we know that God forgetting righteousness is still at play.

Don't you believe "God doesn't change"?

I also proved this is still at play using Matthew 18, to which you have failed to respond--and, actually, you never will adequately respond, because it explodes your entire system.

I seek to have understanding that is coherent and consistent, no matter how much trouble and grief it causes me. You, on the other hand, are wedded to a system. You have a good reason to be, because you get benefit out of it, however, when it comes to Biblical discussion, you're not helpful.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Romans 2 says doers of the Law will be justified.

who are doers of the law? And why?

Is anyone perfect?

Its one thing to do the law. it is a far other thing to fulfill the law..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well actually it worked. I couldn't accept the importance of His having saved me (past-tense) before. I always thought my works were what saved me. When I did accept that Christ saved me, they went away.

However, I admitted I only accept that doctrine in that manner under that kind of pressure; the rest of the time, I'm puzzled as to why the Bible says the things it does, and I try to make sense of it.

Yet here you are using your works to save you.

Did you really believe you were saved to begin with? I think I doubt you did..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, actually, I try to square Scripture with Scripture, and people like yourself are of no assistance.

You still preach fear and self righteousness.

Call it scripture all you want.. It still is what it is

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because he has a view of Scripture that actually makes sense of its parts?

No,

Because he is listening to you and your self righteous self centered gospel of works.

 

[GracePeace]

who are doers of the law? And why?

Is anyone perfect?

Its one thing to do the law. it is a far other thing to fulfill the law..

1. Gentile believers are in view:
a. the Law written on the heart (vv14, 15, 26, 27)is the promise of the New Covenant.
b. They're "circumcised in the heart by the Spirit " v(29).
2. They walk after the Spirit so they do the Law.
3. Ro 8:4 we fulfill the Law.

 

[GracePeace]

Yet here you are using your works to save you.

Did you really believe you were saved to begin with? I think I doubt you did..

Nope, trying to understand the Bible--and, again, when we walk by the Spirit, those aren't my works, which would be my righteousness, but God's righteousness thus God's works.

 

[GracePeace]

No,

Because he is listening to you and your self righteous self centered gospel of works.

Prove it.

 

[GracePeace]

You still preach fear and self righteousness.

Call it scripture all you want.. It still is what it is

Maybe so. Just trying to understand the Bible--and people like you aren't helpful, bc, for whatever benefit you derive from whatever truths you're affirming, you have lop-sided views of Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

No,

Because he is listening to you and your self righteous self centered gospel of works.

He's not listening to me, he already held the view I enunciate here, but, now, he sees his view is upheld in the particular Scriptures discussed here.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. Gentile believers are in view:
a. the Law written on the heart (vv14, 15, 26, 27)is the promise of the New Covenant.
b. They're "circumcised in the heart by the Spirit " v(29).
2. They walk after the Spirit so they do the Law.
3. Ro 8:4 we fulfill the Law.

So Jewish believers can not do the law? why would you differentiate them?

what is the righteous requirement of the law?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, trying to understand the Bible--and, again, when we walk by the Spirit, those aren't my works, which would be my righteousness, but God's righteousness thus God's works.

Um, Gods work was the cross. Gods work was drawing you to him.

WHy do you think those works save you? Does that not make them self righteous works?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Prove it.

I have so many times I lost count. Not only in this chatroom but others

 

[GracePeace]

So Jewish believers can not do the law? why would you differentiate them?

You're misunderstanding me.
The issue I addressed was merely the content of Romans 2, and who it is who was being justified by being doers of the Law.
The reason I shared that information was because you asked.
I never said Jewish believers cannot be doers of the Law.
Paul was taking the Jewish believers to task in Ro 2 for looking down on their fellow Gentile believers.

what is the righteous requirement of the law?

Love fulfills the entire Law, because Love does not harm to one's neighbor (Ro 13:8-10; Galatians 5:14).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe so. Just trying to understand the Bible-

But that just shows you do not understand the bible

-and people like you aren't helpful, bc, for whatever benefit you derive from whatever truths you're affirming, you have lop-sided views of Scripture.

So me preaching the peace of God, and the faith rest, and the power of the gospel to salvation is not helpfull?

Well I guess not to you. because like the pharisees, you mock this truth and hate it..

 

[GracePeace]

I have so many times I lost count. Not only in this chatroom but others

I have debunked your ignorant claims more times than I can count. Not only in this "chatroom" but others.

 

[GracePeace]

But that just shows you do not understand the bible

Yes, I do not understand the Bible. That is why I discuss it with other believers.
"Iron sharpens iron."

So me preaching the peace of God, and the faith rest, and the power of the gospel to salvation is not helpfull?

You cannot make sense of the Scriptures as a whole.
You take one part of it and reject the rest of it.
Therefore, holding to one part of it, and rejecting the other, you are unhelpful with regard to understanding Scripture.

Well I guess not to you. because like the pharisees, you mock this truth and hate it..

I say the same of yourself. LOL
Stalemate.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're misunderstanding me.
The issue I addressed was merely the content of Romans 2, and who it is who was being justified by being doers of the Law.

But see, here you are miskated

Romans 1 was written to gentiles

Romans 2 adresses jews.. Not gentiles

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,

Paul was calling out jews for boasting in their keeping the law and Judging gentiles.

The reason I shared that information was because you asked.

You still have not answered according to scripture though

I never said Jewish believers cannot be doers of the Law.
Paul was taking the Jewish believers to task in Ro 2 for looking down on their fellow Gentile believers.

Thank you. So he was talking to Jews not gentiles.

Love fulfills the entire Law, because Love does not harm to one's neighbor (Ro 13:8-10; Galatians 5:14).

Yes. But do we love perfectly? If not. can we keep the law as required by God?

THAT'S the question I was asking