More on the deity of Christ

[Behold]

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Yes, that is the reality.
And you stated that all "commentary is opinion", and that is the statement of a Theological relativist., as that statement is explaining that the "commentary" regarding The Trinity is based on "perspective" or as you put it , "opinion".........when in fact its based on Truth..

 

[Matthias]

Yes, that is the reality.

I want people to see / hear your heart.

And you stated that all "commentary is opinion", and that is the statement of a Theological relativist., as that statement is explaining that the "commentary" regarding

Scripture is the truth. Commentary on scripture is opinion about scripture. In our conversations you‘ve held and expressed a low opinion of scholars and their commentaries. (And you don’t respect the constraints of history.)

The Trinity is based on "perspective" or as you put it , "opinion".........when in fact its based on Truth..

The Trinity is based on an interpretation of scripture. The history of the post-biblical formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity is very well documented. You don’t abide by or with historical orthodox trinitarianism.

 

[Behold]

I want people to see / hear your heart.

Well, that is one way to try to dodge what you are doing here
I think you will fail, again, as before.

Scripture is the truth. Commentary on scripture is opinion about scripture.

Scripture is revealed to born again believers who study the scriputures.
So, this is "Revelation knowledge" ...........and Revelation knowledge is not "opionion".

However, there is a process, a means, that is specific, so that the believer receives it......and i'll explain it for you.

A.) THE doctrine for the Church" came to us from PAUL.......and that is not "opinion", its what He told us.
So, when a born again believer does this....= ...>"follow me as i follow Christ".. then the believer is going to learn Paul's Theology.
Once that has occurred, "opinion" on Doctrine.....found in the NT, ...has ceased., as Paul's Doctrine is not "opinion".

Whereas, people who do not follow Paul, like you......and are not students of His Doctrine,, like you .....will post NOTHING BUT......"opinion".

The Trinity is based on an interpretation of scripture.

Your statment is the statement of a Theological Relativst.
We see your "heart".
And i see your theology as well. @Matthias

Now, Listen carefully.

John 1:10 says that JESUS made the world.

Which Jesus? .. = The Only Begotten Virgin born Son of God., is the one who John says "made the World".

Do you understand and comprehend the word "MADE".... .as in "MADE the World'. = John 1:10 ?

The only reason you would not believe this, is because you dont want to believe it.

 

[Matthias]

I'm open to talking with anyone.
If people will share their experiences I will listen.
My conversations with Christians often sound something like this:
Me: I just talked to the Designer, and I assembled a nice square table.
Christians: That can’t be true. The instructions say it’s round.
Me: I tried following the instructions, but something’s off. They say the table must be round in the end, but it’s impossible to assemble a round table from all the straight and square parts I got from the Designer.
Christians: Our professional assemblers know the instructions from A to Z and have explained that the table must be round.
Me: Have they ever tried to assemble it?
Christians: No, they said we’re missing some parts.
Me: Did you talk to the Designer? He explained to me that He never wrote the instructions Himself. Someone might have made mistakes while dictating to scribes. Plus, it’s a copy of a copy of a copy.
Christians: We’re constantly sending Him messages, asking for the right parts and for Him to send His Son—the well-known, talented assembler. But we’re sure the instructions are accurate. We think you have the wrong parts, probably from a different designer, His competitor.
Me: I know His Son is really talented. I actually copied His table, you know, since our Designer doesn’t talk more than necessary. It was easier for me to see the final product and replicate it. As for a wrong designer—there’s only one Designer.
Christians: We don’t believe you. You’re just a clueless assembler who can’t bend the parts to make a round shape.

There’s already been too much talk against the Trinity on the “Christians Only” forums. Now their trying to shift it down here. It has been relatively peaceful here with the Trinity wars raging up there.

If you’re actually interested in becoming a trinitarian, I’m sure some of them would be willing to help you with it. I can also assist you with it.

 

[OreCove]

I don't know many ditales about those time, but as I recall Eastern church had different opinion based on opinion of their leader. It's the metter of authority. Numbers might also played roal there. But minority still can be right. I don't think people of that century had better connections with God then it can be now. It's all based on opinion.

 

[Matthias]

Well, that is one way to try to dodge what you are doing here
I think you will fail, again, as before.




Scripture is revealed to born again believers who study the scriputures.
So, this is "Revelation knowledge" ...........and Revelation knowledge is not "opionion".

However, there is a process, a means, that is specific, so that the believer receives it......and i'll explain it for you.

A.) THE doctrine for the Church" came to us from PAUL.......and that is not "opinion", its what He told us.
So, when a born again believer does this....= ...>"follow me as i follow Christ".. then the believer is going to learn Paul's Theology.
Once that has occurred, "opinion" on Doctrine.....found in the NT, ...has ceased., as Paul's Doctrine is not "opinion".

Whereas, people who do not follow Paul, like you......and are not students of His Doctrine,, like you .....will post NOTHING BUT......"opinion".



Your statment is the statement of a Theological Relativst.
We see your "heart".
And i see your theology as well. @Matthias

Now, Listen carefully.

John 1:10 says that JESUS made the world.

Which Jesus? The Only Begotten, Virgin born Son of God., is the one who John says "made the World".

The only reason you would not believe this, is because you dont want to believe it.

You don’t read John (and the New Testament) through the lens of Jewish monotheism. I do. The more I hear you speak, the more certain I become that reading Jewish writings with their Hebraic mindset is the right way to proceed.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know many ditales about those time, but as I recall Eastern church had different opinion based on opinion of their leader. It's the metter of authority. Numbers might also played roal there. But minority still can be right. I don't think people of that century had better connections with God then it can be now. It's all based on opinion.

I don’t agree that it’s all based on opinion. You shouldn’t believe those who are attempting to persuade their readers that I do.

 

[Behold]

I don't know many ditales about those time, but as I recall Eastern church had different opinion based on opinion of their leader. It's the metter of authority. Numbers might also played roal there. But minority still can be right. I don't think people of that century had better connections with God then it can be now. It's all based on opinion.

Open your New Testament to this Verse.. (Posted below for you).

And after you read it, ......then the question that will remain is not "if" Jesus Made the World, which proves that He is "God manifested in the Flesh"......1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)....but whether you will believe it.
Some never will, and some always will.........and you get to decide for yourself what you will do with this Truth.
Accept it, or deny it.

John 1:10..

Notice who "made the world"..
-
New International Version
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

New Living Translation
He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him.

English Standard Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Berean Standard Bible
He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

Berean Literal Bible
He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.

King James Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

New King James Version
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

New American Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not know Him.

NASB 1995
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

NASB 1977
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Legacy Standard Bible
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Amplified Bible
He (Christ) was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

 

[Matthias]

“Through him” as I have shown elsewhere using trinitarian commentary, does not mean “by him”.

 

[Behold]

You don’t read John (and the New Testament) through the lens of Jewish monotheism. I do.

The filter of Jewish Monotheism, is not a Christian Lens........its a secular Jewish determination, therefore, its not able to "rightly divide" the word of God, as this has to be '"Spiritually discerned"

"But behold, i know a Jewish Christian Monotheist" who denies the "Trinity".
Yes, and those JEWS who are not "Christian Monotheist" " deny that Jesus is the Messiah.

So, you picked the wrong "Proof text", as you can't use what does not Accept JESUS as God's Son, (Jewish Monotheism) to try to prove that Jesus is not God in the Flesh.

See it?
Its pretty simple to comprehend.

 

[OreCove]

to Matthias . I'm a really "bad person". I don't believe God had a plan to kill Jesus. I believe there were predictions that people will. I confirm my opinion through parable about vineyard Owner and the workers. God hoped they will be afraid to go agains His son.

 

[Behold]

“Through him” as I have shown elsewhere using trinitarian commentary, does not mean “by him”.

Notice how this verse in Colossians, proves John 1:10 (Jesus made the World)

"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."""

 

[Matthias]

The filter of Jewish Monotheism, is not a Christian Lens......

The first Christians were Jewish monotheists. It is a Christian lens which was later rejected. See A.E. Harvey, Jesus and the Constraints Of History.

Trinitarian scholarship is much better than you allow.

..its a secular Jewish determination,

That’s false. See above.

therefore, its not able to "rightly divide" the word of God, as this has to be '"Spiritually discerned"

"But behold, i know a Jewish Christian Monotheist" who denies the "Trinity".
Yes, and those JEWS who are not "Christian Monotheist" " deny that Jesus is the Messiah.

So, you picked the wrong "Proof text", as you can't use what does not Accept JESUS as God's Son, to try to prove that Jesus is not God in the Flesh.

See it?
Its pretty simple to comprehend.

Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist. One day you will see it.

 

[Behold]

I'm a really "bad person". I don't believe God had a plan to kill Jesus.

God didnt "kill Jesus"

Its for our Sins that God sent Jesus into the World.
He came to become the way for God to forgive us all our sin.......
Jesus Himself CHOSE to die for our sin........so that we can be forgiven, forever.
So, by Jesus's sacrifice of Himself........as our willing "sin bearer".. we are forgiven our sin, and will be restored into God's Family as a CHRISTian.

 

[Matthias]

Notice how this verse in Colossians, proves John 1:10 (Jesus made the World)

"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."""

See the many translations of the Colossians passage which correctly say “For in him …”

Share those with your readers.

Also share with them the Apostles’ Creed.

 

[Behold]

The first Christians were Jewish monotheists.

The first monotheists were found in the OT, not in the New, and no one in the Old Testamant was a Christian.

IN the NT....The first Christians were mostly uneducated fishemen, and similar, and one was a devious greedy Tax Collector.
These men were not intelectuals....
If you want the original Christian Intellectuals, then you go to the NT and study Paul's Theology., or read the Gospel of LUKE as He was also, an Intellectual.
Paul was a brilliant intelectual, who was also a High Ranking Pharisee.

It is a Christian lens which was later rejected. See A.E. Harvey, Jesus and the Constraints if History.

Is this one of the books that put the blinders on you, so that when you read "Made the World", you can't comprehend it ?

Trinitarian scholarship is much better than you allow.

If it produced your belief system, regarding denying the Trinity, then this proves that some of this Scholarship, is BLIND.

Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist. One day you will see it.

Jesus is the Word become Flesh, who is "God manifested in the Flesh"........1 Tim 3:16... KJV.
So, if you begin to be a bible student, and you find that verse, and John 1, Colossians 1:16, John 1:10, , then one day you might believe that "Jesus made the World".

 

[Behold]

See the many translations of the Colossians passage which correctly say “For in him …”

I'll share that "God was manifested in the Flesh".........and that Jesus "Made the World".......if the topic of the discussion is related to "The Trinity".



@Matthias wrote......."""""Also share with them the Apostles’ Creed.""""

No thanks.

Not only will i not share that with them, i also wont invite them to join "the Cult of Mary" that produced it.

 

[OreCove]

"Jesus Himself CHOSE to die..."
agree with it. Fulfilled prophecy - that people finally believe that he was the right one, and will follow his steps, use his words (originated from God) and accept the same Spirit (through prayer and repentance). I understand this out of topic. I will start new separated conversation.

 

[Behold]

"Jesus Himself CHOSE to die..."

Yes, exactly.

 

[Matthias]

The first monotheists were found in the OT, not in the New, and no one in the Old Testamant was a Christian.

IN the NT....The first Christians were mostly uneducated fishemen, and similar, and one was a devious greedy Tax Collector.
These men were not intelectuals....
If you want the original Christian Intellectuals, then you go to the NT and study Paul's Theology., or read the Gospel of LUKE as He was also, an Intellectual.
Paul was a brilliant intelectual, who was also a High Ranking Pharisee.



Is this one of the books that put the blinders on you, so that when you read "Made the World", you can't comprehend it ?




If it produced your belief system, regarding denying the Trinity, then this proves that some of this Scholarship, is BLIND.



Jesus is the Word become Flesh, who is "God manifested in the Flesh"........1 Tim 3:16... KJV.
So, if you begin to be a bible student, and you find that verse, and John 1, Colossians 1:16, John 1:10, , then one day you might believe that "Jesus made the World".

I’ve learned more from trinitarian scholarship - Catholic and Protestant - than anyone will ever learn from you.