Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

[bbyrd009]

Sure, we know Eve died, at some stage, as do we all. And while the warning was given that the day she eats, she will die, the reason she didn't die that day, can be assumed from scripture (as it interprets itself) that the Son stepped into the breach, and His promise provided time for remorse and healing. In other words, grace. Slain from the foundation of the world. The postponement of her demise wasn't a dialectic trick being played on westerner's thought processes surely

surely she died spiritually that day?

..doesn't God want even us westerners to understand His word?

hide wisdom from the wise
so that they will be ever seeing but not understanding, etcetc
so i would say hell no, wadr, you are even still calling Scripture Word?
which i can already tell I'm right back to...doing this all wrong, pleasing myself, dang

um, imo "God" wants us to change our minds. What would purposely playing a ball game to a tie do,for you for,instance maybe

 

[brakelite]

surely she died spiritually that day?

P okay.

you are even still calling Scripture Word?

Not literally actually. The writers were inspired... The thoughts were inspired... The dreams and visions etc etc, but the scriptures were written in their own words .The prophets were God's penmen, not God's pen.

um, imo "God" wants us to change our minds. What would purposely playing a ball game to a tie do,for you for,instance maybe

agreed. We run the race to finish, not to win. All who finish, win.

 

[bbyrd009]

Some things are to be taken literally surely, for without literal promises, what real hope do we really have? As Paul said to someone, if Christ be not literally raised, anyone following and believing the gospel message is more miserable than all, because they would be basing their entire lives on a false hope

ok, so when i go look, i am going to find "literally" there in Scripture? Let's do then, 1 Corinthians 15:14 Lexicon: and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
oops, now what

 

[bbyrd009]

Which leads into this...
... my answer
above to your question
perhaps may have been a little flippant, and I apologise for that...it wasn't from any sense of disrespect, but rather a self defense mechanism of not understanding maybe the depth of your question. I do that on occasion, avoiding too much transparency. So, my understanding of Jesus warning, don't go out into the desert to see me coming on someone else's recommendation,

even though that is a perfect description of exactly what we do, normally, right

doesn't mean we cease from expectation of His actual coming. His own description of His coming being described in a variety of places as being literal… highly audible... bright... unexpected by the flippant (ooops)...but a coming reality nevertheless, and every eye shall see and experience it, for while His kingdom which is in us, doesn't come with observation, Jesus Himself certainly shall, as the many parables and promises depict the husband coming for His bride

oh He's coming alright, like a freight train, realer than that even, freighT trains rust and die and stop moving, every eye will surely see Him, amen, only no eyes will see anything see, we gotta pluck an eye out first, and not the left one either. Might have more brb maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

"...everyone will see Him" would have been the um accepted way to write that right

 

[bbyrd009]

He is risen, hallelujah, it's two thousand years later and we're still talking about Him, He still gots the best-seller and that's not for nothing, i tell you what

 

[bbyrd009]

P okay.

Ha if ok, then ok but FWIW i'd get back to that "flippant oops" part, that was a good confession imo, ahead of me now prolly, dunno if i've ever even done that myself. I'm all theory pretty much i guess, but you can prolly look forward to getting a new name, iow you won't even be...um, bl anymore see. That guy just died

 

[bbyrd009]

but the scriptures were written in their own words

Believe it or not i would disagree here, and now say that when It was written it was Word! Imo they heard Word and wrote it down, very precisely, only then someone else came and read It, see, they did not hear It, so It is not Word, It is now God-Breathed, for the simple reason that It is not being heard. Faith comes by hearing. Wisdom is hidden from the wise. Hearing comes by the Word.

How do we get hearing? Prolly a great thread there i guess, i sure don't know!

 

[bbyrd009]

agreed. We run the race to finish, not to win. All who finish, win.

hmm. No team in a footrace, go team. Now go sing When We All Get to Heaven again imo, and tell me how that feels

few there are who find it right

 

[bbyrd009]

Was he the only person you have ever witnessed to who had objections to some aspect of Christianity?

Wadr and fwiw, you might contemplate "witness" in the frame of defending an attack from um your enemies, strickly as a mental exercise even

 

[aspen]

Wow...
I honestly have no idea what people are talking about here. None.
Are you guys trying to illustrate what conversation looks like without logic and dialogical reasoning?

Bbryd your posts may as well be about dragon’s and concrete’s role in the construct of scripture running through byways and channels of our minds compared to the canals on Mars....I’ve had acid trips that have made more sense.

 

[amadeus]

nice, ya, be great if we could illuminate the "supossedly" part a little better. Not too many actual conversations going on here i guess, mostly ego-wars with words?

My friend, yesterday I was reading through one thread and my heart sank to see the words people were using against each other. The atheists or agnostics were NOT involved. I would certainly say from what I am able to see that some people here either just really don't care or they are deep in delusion. I use the supposedly at times rather than expressing more directly what I believe is happening. The devil doesn't make us do anything, but sometimes apparently some of us like Peter are devils [satans].

If a devil believes he is a saint [set apart] of God in his delusion remains always a devil...what is his reward?

"Jesus wept!"

 

[CoreIssue]

My friend, yesterday I was reading through one thread and my heart sank to see the words people were using against each other. The atheists or agnostics were NOT involved. I would certainly say from what I am able to see that some people here either just really don't care or they are deep in delusion. I use the supposedly at times rather than expressing more directly what I believe is happening. The devil doesn't make us do anything, but sometimes apparently some of us like Peter are devils [satans].

If a devil believes he is a saint [set apart] of God in his delusion remains always a devil...what is his reward?

"Jesus wept!"

Can one be something other then an atheist or agnostic and still not be Christian?

 

[bbyrd009]

Wow...
I honestly have no idea what people are talking about here. None.
Are you guys trying to illustrate what conversation looks like without logic and dialogical reasoning?

Bbryd your posts may as well be about dragon’s and concrete’s role in the construct of scripture running through byways and channels of our minds compared to the canals on Mars....I’ve had acid trips that have made more sense.

Yet you obviously,reason differently from an easterner, who is naturally comfortable,with playing baseball games to a tie on purpose, not saying the pros do that tho. You reason as a Hegelian, using logic, and arrive at "either/or" decisions, and the only reason this is Greek to you is bc all of your peers do too, and the subject is of course strictly avoided in ourpublic schools, bc we breed warriors, ppl who seek to Win, and the devil take the hindmost, see; hence "Satan's dialectic."

Did the op not make any sense to you at all? It would be helpful to know, maybe i could rephrase or find a better copypaste? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

My friend, yesterday I was reading through one thread and my heart sank to see the words people were using against each other. The atheists or agnostics were NOT involved. I would certainly say from what I am able to see that some people here either just really don't care or they are deep in delusion. I use the supposedly at times rather than expressing more directly what I believe is happening. The devil doesn't make us do anything, but sometimes apparently some of us like Peter are devils [satans].

If a devil believes he is a saint [set apart] of God in his delusion remains always a devil...what is his reward?

"Jesus wept!"

He who says he knows, does not...
but eating what is it? once you have got onto Logic is a very hard thing to do i guess. Sure is for me anyway. I became aware of this like 2+ years ago and still revert under any kind of stress, almost daily.

Find the Pearl of Great Price imo if (you) find nothing else in your life; it is the Gate, after all, sits on the 12 foundations which are um precious stones, guess you were around for CIs thread on those? Two-eyed thread? Helps to ID the 12 first, did me anyway. I "converted" a couple of them in that thread, dunno where it went from there though

What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of

 

[bbyrd009]

P okay.

Sure, we know Eve died, at some stage, as do we all. And while the warning was given that the day she eats, she will die, the reason she didn't die that day, can be assumed from scripture (as it interprets itself) that the Son stepped into the breach, and His promise provided time for remorse and healing. In other words, grace. Slain from the foundation of the world. The postponement of her demise wasn't a dialectic trick being played on westerner's thought processes surely...doesn't God want even us westerners to understand His word? Some things are to be taken literally surely, for without literal promises, what real hope do we really have? As Paul said to someone, if Christ be not literally raised, anyone following and believing the gospel message is more miserable than all, because they would be basing their entire lives on a false hope.

my emphasis, and i mean no offense but...more steps on that ladder i guess, ok

 

[brakelite]

Does everything have to be metaphorical? Does everything have to be shrouded in mystery? Does everything in scripture have to be read in such a way that no-one can be certain of what the writer is getting at? Spiritual insight recognises the metaphors, but not at the expense of clear intent. Because scripture says Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died, we can't "know" Eve died because scripture doesn't say so?

 

[bbyrd009]

Does everything have to be metaphorical?

good Q, my guess would be No. You will not do murder is pretty literal i guess

Does everything have to be shrouded in mystery?

well, are you an Apostle? Bc everyone else gets parabolic Scripture for a good reason i guess. Ever notice how hearing a truth is not the same as experiencing or even discovering a truth?

Does everything in scripture have to be read in such a way that no-one can be certain of what the writer is getting at?

he who says he knows, does not yet know as he ought bl, interpret that for yourself ok, i mean you don't have to agree with me even, i'm basically a piece of dust in your eye in the grand scheme of things i guess. A grain of sand, maybe

Spiritual insight recognises the metaphors, but not at the expense of clear intent.

aw, and you were doing so well too imo
they interpret Paul to their destruction
2 Peter 3:16 Lexicon: as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Because scripture says Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died, we can't "know" Eve died because scripture doesn't say so?

ok well I'd be wondering 1why Adam's "lifespan" is recorded and Eve's is not, 2how Adam's lifespan is recorded at all as there were no witnesses, and they didn't even have writing then, and oh 3 why his span so neatly happens to work out as 1000-70, for starters. You wanna take Scripture literally right bl, why not take the two shall become one literally bro? Have a good eve ok, manana

 

[amadeus]

Can one be something other then an atheist or agnostic and still not be Christian?

Probably a person can be whatever he chooses... by putting first either God or mammon. Some do not know the difference.

 

[amadeus]

He who says he knows, does not...

People want to be certain and refuse to accept any other answer even if they have to force it. I guess God allows that and even helps them along that way with or in their delusions.

but eating what is it? once you have got onto Logic is a very hard thing to do i guess. Sure is for me anyway. I became aware of this like 2+ years ago and still revert under any kind of stress, almost daily.

Real logic is a real problem for us when we try to follow everything through logically at all. Some things make no logical sense... which is why I think God insists that we live by faith rather than knowledge. He know our brains as initially formed cannot really fathom the whole truth... not with logic, they cannot. When we move logically, or try to, we end up with one or more of those vicious circles.

Did you ever consider what would happen if you were able to and did travel to the very edge of the universe? Then you would wonder, would you not, what was beyond that edge. Some say [scientists?] you would simply end up back where you started, but that really does not help us get out of the quandary, does it?

Find the Pearl of Great Price imo if (you) find nothing else in your life; it is the Gate, after all, sits on the 12 foundations which are um precious stones, guess you were around for CIs thread on those? Two-eyed thread? Helps to ID the 12 first, did me anyway. I "converted" a couple of them in that thread, dunno where it went from there though

Seemingly in the eyes to see! Apparently, most people remain always really blind to God and the things of God and I guess most of them never seriously consider that there might really be something else to see. The Pearl exists but of those who acknowledge how well can it be seen? The Pearl is the Gate and it is the Life. It is always right here, but...?

What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of

Considering what causes a natural pearl to form I copied the following simple explanation from the Internet:

"Natural Pearls form when an irritant - usually a parasite and not the proverbial grain of sand - works its way into an oyster, mussel, or clam. As a defense mechanism, a fluid is used to coat the irritant. Layer upon layer of this coating, called 'nacre', is deposited until a lustrous pearl is formed."

Do we have a "parasitic irritant" in us about which a protective layer [against the ways of our own flesh?] is formed resulting in some lustrous pearls or precious stones...? If they are laid on the proper foundation?

[What would that "parasitic irritant" be?]

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." I Cor 3:11-13