Contradiction: Omnipotent, Omniscient, Predestination, Determinism vs Freewill

[TonyChanYT]

If you think there is a contradiction, please present the two propositions that directly contradict. Please clearly state the two contradictory propositions and nothing else. Fill in the blanks:

Proposition P1 = ________.

Freewill proposition P2 = ________.

Let me explain my motivation. In this thread, I attempt a bottom-up approach to confront this controversial issue that has been around for centuries and millenniums. I want debaters to begin with a clear goal (proposition) in mind.

An argument begins with propositions. Without them, there is no formal argument. There is nothing to argue about. This is my only point in this thread.

I do not have any hope at all to resolve the controversy. My only hope is to get debaters to be more goal-oriented in their debates. Without this guiding structure (proposition), they tend to talk past each other without communicating any useful information in their bickering.

My position is this: I prefer to argue about terms found in the Bible. Since Determinism is not, I would rather not argue about that :)

See also What is freewill?.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If you think there is a contradiction, please present the two propositions that directly contradict. Please clearly state the two contradictory propositions and nothing else. Fill in the blanks:

Proposition P1 = ________.

Freewill proposition P2 = ________.

Let me explain my motivation. In this thread, I attempt a bottom-up approach to confront this controversial issue that has been around for centuries and millenniums. I want debaters to begin with a clear goal (proposition) in mind.

An argument begins with propositions. Without them, there is no formal argument. There is nothing to argue about. This is my only point in this thread.

I do not have any hope at all to resolve the controversy. My only hope is to get debaters to be more goal-oriented in their debates. Without this guiding structure (proposition), they tend to talk past each other without communicating any useful information in their bickering.

My position is this: I prefer to argue about terms found in the Bible. Since Determinism is not, I would rather not argue about that :)

See also What is freewill?.

Really, it is argued, unthinkingly, illogically, that since God knows everything then human choices have already been pre-determined. That is a logical impossibility. Since God created free human will, then it is not impossible for God to produce things He knows everything about but is determined by free agents. God determines the result in any decision one may make, and still allow free agents to make their own decision.

It is like arguing whether God can make a rock bigger than He can lift. Of course God can lift anything. But has He determined illogical, irrational things? Of course not.

Neither has God determined to give people free will that has been predetermined for them to make. God simply has a result for any choice they may make, and so honestly gives each person choices.

Obviously, to produce this effect God must positively determine certain conditions that make this possible, and which no free choice can thwart. Therefore, God determines the environment for free human choice. But He also allows free human choice within the anticipated environment.