Limited atonement !

[Hey You!]

@Hey You!



False, only the ones the Father gave Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

All have access to Christ. Jesus said that if the Trodden Soil/Heart Believed, he would have to Heal/Save them...

Even the Reprobate have access to Atonement. I'll Paste my Gospel Tract on this...

 

[Hey You!]

All have access to Christ. Jesus said that if the Trodden Soil/Heart Believed, he would have to Heal/Save them...

Even the Reprobate have access to Atonement. I'll Paste my Gospel Tract on this...

The Birds ~ by ReverendRV * October 21

Matthew 13:4 GW; Some seeds were planted along the road, and birds came and devoured them.

Jesus used four examples of ground to teach about our Hearts and described them like different kinds of Soils which received a Farmers seed. One was freshly tilled soil, another was weedy soil, yet another was rocky soil, but one was the hardest soil of them all; the trodden path where nothing grew. Jesus would go on to explain that the seed symbolizes his Gospel and its effect on the different types of ‘Souls’. ~ You may have the hardest heart there is and the birds just carry the seed away, but I have news for you; Jesus went on to say that if the birds didn’t fly away with the Gospel seed, you WOULD believe and be Saved. The reason for this conversion is because of how dynamic the Gospel is! The Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation. It is the same power that God raised people from the dead with. You don’t stand a chance and have no control over it; the Gospel can penetrate your Heart no matter what. If you don’t like feeling out of control like this, wait until you hear the rest of the story; the worse is yet to come…

Jesus said that the birds are Satan stealing the Gospel seed from those who don’t understand, lest they believe and be Saved. There is a Spiritual War going on and we’re in the middle of a battle. If you don’t like being out of control regarding the Power of the Gospel, you really shouldn’t like having no control over Satan taking away your best chance in life! What you need is Understanding; let me help you. ~ Have you ever Lied? What name do you call a person if they tell Lies? Have you ever stolen something? What name do you call someone that steals? Are you beginning to understand? Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in the Heart, certainly a hard Heart has hated; right? Have you ever hated anyone? These are only three of the Ten Commandments, shall we go on? If God judged you by this standard would you be innocent or guilty? If you understand, you’d be guilty. Does this bother you?? God sends guilty Sinners to an eternal Hell; but you don’t have to go. You can hang up a scarecrow to keep the birds away…

Jesus was hung on a Cross like a scarecrow. The reason for this was so that he could receive the Wrath of God for Sins he never committed. Jesus lived his whole life and never Sinned by breaking any of God’s Laws. This made him like a spotless lamb whose fleece is white as snow. Jesus gladly gave up his life and shed his blood so that we wouldn’t have to go through this as punishment for our Sins. He died and was buried in a borrowed tomb, but rose from the dead after three calendar days. He conquered death and the grave, and after forty days he ascended to Heaven where he awaits the day he’ll bring us to himself. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus as our Risen Lord and Savior, without our tilling the ground. Repent and go to a Church that teaches the Gospel and the Bible. ~ Alfred Hitchcock made a horror film called ‘The Birds’. Nature began to turn on Mankind and the fowls of the air started to attack. No eye or ear was safe from them and many would lose their lives. Stay close to Jesus and you will be safe…

Matthew 13:18 KJV; But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Worry about yourself partner

There you go again.... saying I should do something that is not biblical.

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

So... I'm not going to "worry" or "care" about anything... and I don't pardner with cherry pickers who don't accept the whole counsel of God.

None to worry... there's lots of cherry pickers around for you to fellowship with.

If you reject limited atonement you reject the Gospel and Salvation by Grace

You reject the scriptures I posted which came from God's Word so you should quit calling God a liar!

You did not answer the question posted earlier... how do you know that YOU were not atoned for since you believe in limited atonement?

I know, I know... being scared and full of worry and fear prevents you from answering questions such as this because the limited atonement folks have no basis for their salvation and are skeered they may not be saved and will go to hell

You might very well be one of the ones the Lord assigned to burn in hell where there is no salvation for you

I feel sorry for all the tares that have been deceived by the "limited atonement" heresy because they have no basis for faith concerning their own salvation.

It's always rich to here these tares claim "I'm saved... but you are not".... it's laughable!

 

[brightfame52]

All have access to Christ. Jesus said that if the Trodden Soil/Heart Believed, he would have to Heal/Save them...

Even the Reprobate have access to Atonement. I'll Paste my Gospel Tract on this...

False

 

[Dan Clarkston]

False

You did not answer the question posted earlier... how do you know that YOU were not atoned for since you believe in limited atonement?

I know, I know... being scared and full of worry and fear prevents you from answering questions such as this because the limited atonement folks have no basis for their salvation and are skeered they may not be saved and will go to hell

 

[Rightglory]

When I say Christ died for Christians, look at it as you and I being the Object of Christ's Atonement. We often hear that, "Jesus is the Object of our Faith"; @brightfame52 being a Hyper Calvinist cannot change or negate the Object of the Atonement, as being a Methodist or a Baptist can't change the Object of their Faith...

The more correct way of saying your statement would be...
Christ died for mankind. The objective was to save the world from death and then to be able to have communion with man, gaining believers through faith and forgiveness of sin.
As for the Calvinist, theologically, this is precisely what they are doing. Negating Christ's atonement.

 

[Runningman]

I never said anything about judas, thats a different subject to me, Ive been proving limited atonement. Is that you defense or rebuttal ?

Salvation is on the table and Judas is involved. The scope of limited atonement, based on your teachings, either includes Judas as saved or says he is not saved, contrary to Judas being chosen/given to Jesus. This is relevant to your topic. We need to iron out how someone can lose their or not have it in the first place, contrary to limited atonement saying they should be saved.

 

[Rightglory]

@Hey You!



False, only the ones the Father gave Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Explain to me Col 1:20 who was left out from EVERYTHING WAS GIVEN TO CHRIST. Also, every human being will be called by God without exception. Rom 1:18-24. However, those that come to Him in faith, He will not cast out. Why would He, He desires that all men repent, believe. II Pet 3:9 But it is also true that many who do believe also lose faith. Read the parable of the sower and other similar texts.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Salvation is on the table and Judas is involved. The scope of limited atonement, based on your teachings, either includes Judas as saved or says he is not saved, contrary to Judas being chosen/given to Jesus. This is relevant to your topic. We need to iron out how someone can lose their or not have it in the first place, contrary to limited atonement saying they should be saved.

Jesus gave Judas the Holy Spirit along with the other disciples when He sent them out to minister

So Judas was saved at one time and then he fell away later

Matthew 10:1-8
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The empowerment of the apostles to perform miracles is rooted in the direct commission given by Jesus. In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus sends out the twelve apostles with specific instructions and authority: "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give" (Matthew 10:8). This mandate underscores the divine authority bestowed upon them to carry out miraculous works.

If you'll read Matthew 10:1-8 you'll see that Jesus empowered all 12 disciples with the Holy Ghost to do miracles and have power / authority over demons

Judas was obviously in right standing with the Lord and turned away later... otherwise Jesus would not have been giving Judas power to do miracles by the Holy Ghost

Question is... will the tares continue to disrespect the Lord Jesus and claim He was in error (sin) by including Judas when he gave all 12 power to do miracles???

 

[brightfame52]

You did not answer the question posted earlier... how do you know that YOU were not atoned for since you believe in limited atonement?

I know, I know... being scared and full of worry and fear prevents you from answering questions such as this because the limited atonement folks have no basis for their salvation and are skeered they may not be saved and will go to hell

worry about yourself

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation is on the table and Judas is involved. The scope of limited atonement, based on your teachings, either includes Judas as saved or says he is not saved, contrary to Judas being chosen/given to Jesus. This is relevant to your topic. We need to iron out how someone can lose their or not have it in the first place, contrary to limited atonement saying they should be saved.

Judas is on you, Im speaking about limited atonement

 

[brightfame52]

Explain to me Col 1:20 who was left out from EVERYTHING WAS GIVEN TO CHRIST. Also, every human being will be called by God without exception. Rom 1:18-24. However, those that come to Him in faith, He will not cast out. Why would He, He desires that all men repent, believe. II Pet 3:9 But it is also true that many who do believe also lose faith. Read the parable of the sower and other similar texts.

The same Col 1:20 its the elect

 

[Rightglory]

The same Col 1:20 its the elect

Why keep digging the hole you are in deeper. Maybe I should ask if English is your first language?

 

[Runningman]

Judas is on you, Im speaking about limited atonement

We are both speaking about limited atonement, but the case of Judas is related to it directly in the context of John 17:9, which was one of the verses you quoted to support your doctrine. I understand that what I asked is not an easy question for Reformed theology to account for. Please take your time and get back to me. I will open a thread within a week if Judas is not addressed.

 

[brightfame52]

Is there a contradiction here ? Jesus said He gave himself a ransom for many Mark 10:45

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

And His faithful apostle wrote that Jesus gave His life a ransom for all 1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Now here is a writing that I believe reconciles what appears to be a contradiction, and will go on to confirm limited atonement: Craig A. Thurman

For Whom Did Christ Give His Life a Ransom? 1 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mt 20:28 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1Ti 2:6 There is here an apparent contradiction. On one hand Jesus said that He gave His life a ransom for many and, on the other Paul said that Christ gave his life a ransom for all. Anyone with reverence for the Word of God knows that these statements cannot be contradictory. Both of these statements are correct and therefore they must be harmonious. So, how can this apparent contradiction be resolved? First, in Mt.20.28 many is an indeterminate portion of a larger number. Many distinguishes some from all. So, many of a larger, all-comprehensive number are ransomed. This all-comprehensive number can be called all without exception. Second, in 1Ti.2.6, all takes into account only those that are ransomed. This entire group is without distinction, because they are all equally ransomed. So, all in this instance can be called all without distinction. The word all is often defined incorrectly. For this reason, the statements in which this word is used are also misunderstood. For example, all is almost always used with reference to some things or some people in particular. In Mt.3.5, 6 it is written, Mt 3:5,6 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. Here the word all does not mean that Judaea and Jordan became vacated to the extent that no one was left in those places. Here, all is understood in a limited sense and refers to a particular people. To whom does all refer? It only refers to all that desired to receive John’s baptism? All of these were from these places. So, when we fail to correctly define just this one little word the truth becomes distorted in some measure. In 1Ti.2.6 all means all without distinction. In other words all refers to all kinds of people, not every person without exception; people without distinction (without regard to their being rich or poor, healthy or sick, master or servant, and color). The topic of 1Ti.2.1-8 demands that all be defined in this way. Paul encouraged Timothy to make prayers and supplications for all men. (v.1) These men are described as kings and all that are in authority. (v.2) Verses 4 and 5 continue to state that Christ would have all men to be saved because he is a mediator between God and men. It is for all of these that He gave Himself a ransom. Therefore, all can only be interpreted to mean all without distinction, or all kinds of men. As it is not the will of God for us to entertain prayer for all men without exception, it was not the will of God for Christ to ransom every man without exception. The Word of God says no such things. However, the Word of God states in clearest terms that Christ gave His life a ransom for every man without distinction. For Whom Did Christ Give His Life a Ransom? 2 Re 5:9, 10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. He did not ransom every man when He died. How do we know that? Some men die in their sins. Clearly a ransom price had not been paid for these which perished. Conversely, how can any man perish whose ransom price was paid for by Jesus Christ? Mt.18.11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. So, there is not a contradiction in Mt.20.28 and 1Ti.2.6 at all. When the Word of God is rightly divided these two verses state one, harmonious message: Christ ransomed many from all without exception, and the many ransomed are all without distinction. This doctrine is called particular redemption. http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/hi-8171711208-1.PDF 5

 

[brightfame52]

Why keep digging the hole you are in deeper. Maybe I should ask if English is your first language?

Col 1:20 is about and to the elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The all things of Col 1:20 are the elect. Scripture sometimes designate them as things 1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[brightfame52]

We are both speaking about limited atonement, but the case of Judas is related to it directly in the context of John 17:9, which was one of the verses you quoted to support your doctrine. I understand that what I asked is not an easy question for Reformed theology to account for. Please take your time and get back to me. I will open a thread within a week if Judas is not addressed.

Post 259 did you read and understand it ?

Limited atonement !

You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[brightfame52]

@Runningman

I will open a thread within a week if Judas is not addressed.

Thats your best bet if you want my input on judas, which is a different discussion

 

[PGS11]

There is no limited atonement - Jesus made the sacrifice of atonement for everyone he paid the debt for original sin so humanity could enter heaven.The bible tells us we will earn the wages of death if we continue to sin and to confess repent and turn to the word of God.Have faith in the death and resurrection of Christ.Everyone can make that choice no one is being stopped from doing it.They choose to continue to sin earning the wages of death while others choose the path to eternal life in Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus, said that everyone must be “ Born Again “ to see the Kingdom Of God.....therefore limited atonement must be limited....as only the Spirit can give birth to our spirit.....just as his word says.....man cannot choose to be birthed by the Living Spirit Of God.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit......what does that mean?

How would you know what Spirit gives birth to spirit means ?

To believe....in God/ Jesus....how does one do that by freedom of choice?...makes no sense.

How do you know that God exists...by whose Living testimony?