Limited atonement !

[Ritajanice]

Col 1:20 is about and to the elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The all things of Col 1:20 are the elect. Scripture sometimes designate them as things 1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

You must know by now...that those in the natural will never understand the spiritual....unless it’s Gods will, that he births them in his Living Spirit....

Spirit gives birth to spirit.....that’s the only way I came to know of God....I know him and am in constant communication with him...via Spirit to spirit.......there is no other way to communicate with God...

I’ve even been told by a member, that I speak a load of nonsense, words to that effect...because they are imo, still in the natural mind...they don’t understand anything that we talk about in spirit....

They never answer Spirit questions either.....they just start getting personal and defensive....best stay away from that....a servant of God should represent him.....not keep getting personal...as we can see some are doing on this thread.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

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King James Version​

​

​

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Ritajanice]

Matthew 13:18 KJV; But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

My eyes and ears became open and could hear, once my spirit had been birthed, into the Spirit of Christ.

Once that happened...then the Spirit can start working in my heart, conforming me into Jesus image, growing in Jesus maturity, bearing the fruit of the Spirit....

This all takes time of course...as it’s the Spirit within our heart, who is changing us, bringing us to Glorify the power of Gods Living Spirit who indwells our spirit....being partaker Of the divine nature..

My opinion/ testimony/ belief.

 

[brightfame52]

@PGS11

There is no limited atonement -

Then you have no Gospel, for the limited atonement ensures an effectual saving atonement.

 

[Rightglory]

Col 1:20 is about and to the elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The all things of Col 1:20 are the elect. Scripture sometimes designate them as things 1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

So, you do have trouble with the English language. As you did before with other words, you use the same definition for every use of a word in every context. You do know that context determines use and meaning of words. In this case "things" means elect. Every time you interject your own meaning it would have been very simple for the writer to actually use the word "elect" if that is what he meant.
You go to great lengths to contrive meanings of words just to support an unscriptural concept - limited atonement. In so doing you actually negate most of scripture, including making Christ of non effect.

 

[PGS11]

Then your talking predestination which has never been agreed upon.Calvinism

Some argue that predestination undermines free will and human agency, suggesting that individuals have no real choice in their salvation or eternal destiny
Others question the fairness of a God who would predestine some to salvation and others to damnation, regardless of their actions or choices.
The concept of predestination can be seen as discouraging, as it might lead to a sense of hopelessness or fatalism if individuals believe their fate is already sealed

Why some think its right.
Proponents of predestination emphasize God's absolute sovereignty and omnipotence, believing that God has the right to choose who will be saved.
Some cite biblical passages to support the idea of God's foreknowledge and predestination, arguing that God has a plan for humanity from eternity.
Others argue that predestination highlights God's grace and mercy, as salvation is seen as a gift from God, not something earned by human effort.
For some, the belief in predestination provides comfort and assurance, knowing that God has a plan for their lives and that their salvation is secure.

The concept of predestination is often interpreted differently by various Christian denominations and individuals.
The debate often revolves around understanding God's character, whether He is just, loving, and sovereign
The extent to which humans have free will and agency in their relationship with God is a central point of contention.

Predestination is a complex and controversial theological concept with strong arguments on both sides. Ultimately, whether someone believes it is "right" or "wrong" depends on their individual interpretation of scripture, their understanding of God's character, and their personal beliefs about free will and salvation.

It kind of kills saved by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ it has no meaning with predestination.I guess its possible I hope not for others I care whether they are saved or not.

I'm a saved by faith person so I will step back that's not going to change.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

worry about yourself

Worry... anxiety, solicitude are all derivatives if fear and are sinful behavior. You should REPENT of your worrying!

Besides when you post your thoughts on a public forum... you invite others to comment.

If you don't like others to comment on your posts then you need to refrain from posting your thoughts in a public forum.

Thats your best bet if you want my input on judas, which is a different discussion

It's directly related to talking about the satanic doctrine of so called "limited atonement" where gnostics are claiming they are saved and those that don't agree with their "revelations" are lost

The limited atonement heretics are following the traditions of men and have become reprobate.

Then you have no Gospel, for the limited atonement ensures an effectual saving atonement.

We get it... you think you are saved and everyone else is not... except for your calvinist buddies.

The limited atonement heresy is similar to the once saved always saved heresy as both think they can never lose their salvation even if they live in sin...

The limited atonement heretics and the OSAS heretics like to keep the door open for them to do them some sinful behavior which is why so many of these tares live in sin but like to bark at everyone else claiming they the only ones going to Heaven... reprobate is as reprobate does ya know.

Then you have no Gospel

The limited atonement heretics have a false gospel and a fake "jesus"

 

[Runningman]

Post 259 did you read and understand it ?

Limited atonement !

You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also...

www.christianityboard.com

Yes I read and understood it. I believe the case of Judas challenges the limited atonement doctrine. I understand you don't want to discuss it here. I will open a thread later when I have time. I've been wanting to open a thread on what the Gospel actually is lately.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I believe the case of Judas challenges the limited atonement doctrine

It doesn't just challenge limited atonement... it exposes limited atonement for what it is, heresy!

I posted scriptures earlier that also prove limited atonement is heresy... and I noticed none of the limited atonement peoples want to talk about those scriptures... because if they do they have to claim those bible passages are lies in order to continue claiming limited atonement is true.

So, they do what all calvinists do... they deflect, ignore, or otherwise try to explain away truth in God's Word that does not fit in the the doctrines they got from that unrepentant murderer John Calvin.

It's crazy that anyone would get their spiritual advice and teaching from a murderer... but they do!

I've seen calvinists attempt to justify John Calvin murdering people for not accepting his heresy which is always a comical discussion but not comical in a good way

 

[brightfame52]

So, you do have trouble with the English language. As you did before with other words, you use the same definition for every use of a word in every context. You do know that context determines use and meaning of words. In this case "things" means elect. Every time you interject your own meaning it would have been very simple for the writer to actually use the word "elect" if that is what he meant.
You go to great lengths to contrive meanings of words just to support an unscriptural concept - limited atonement. In so doing you actually negate most of scripture, including making Christ of non effect.

Col 1:20 is about and to the elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The all things of Col 1:20 are the elect. Scripture sometimes designate them as things 1 Cor 1:26-29

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes I read and understood it. I believe the case of Judas challenges the limited atonement doctrine. I understand you don't want to discuss it here. I will open a thread later when I have time. I've been wanting to open a thread on what the Gospel actually is lately.

okay until then, please stay on the things I have posted about in support for limited atonement.

 

[Runningman]

It doesn't just challenge limited atonement... it exposes limited atonement for what it is, heresy!

I posted scriptures earlier that also prove limited atonement is heresy... and I noticed none of the limited atonement peoples want to talk about those scriptures... because if they do they have to claim those bible passages are lies in order to continue claiming limited atonement is true.

So, they do what all calvinists do... they deflect, ignore, or otherwise try to explain away truth in God's Word that does not fit in the the doctrines they got from that unrepentant murderer John Calvin.

It's crazy that anyone would get their spiritual advice and teaching from a murderer... but they do! View attachment 60746

I've seen calvinists attempt to justify John Calvin murdering people for not accepting his heresy which is always a comical discussion but not comical in a good way

I know that in Christianity that we have differing views on many things among the various denominations, sects, groups, and even individuals. What I have often experienced is that regardless of the presentation of new facts, it normally does little to sway one away from the things they believe even if those things challenge or ultimately proven wrong their beliefs. It's just that everyone has their religion and they stick with it.

I will confess I have my beliefs and probably couldn't easily be swayed from mine either at this point. Though it wasn't so in the beginning. I have done a lot of seeking, researching, and praying to get to where I am now. Though I admit I have kept an open mind, changed positions dramatically when I needed to, and I would do it again in a heart beat. I don't pay any loyalty to any particular group or doctrine. I am just a man who wants the truth, whatever it may be. That's why I am willing to explore limited atonement, though I have already found a significant issue with it.

Anyway, I didn't really mean to go off topic, but it happens. Please continue everyone.

 

[PGS11]

Jesus speaks to everyone here.

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

He is inviting you personally will you accept the invitation?

 

[brightfame52]

Is Universal Atonement True? (1)​

A number of readers have asked about the extent or purpose of the atonement, that is, For whom did Christ die? This question is especially important because many evangelicals today believe that Jesus shed His blood for everyone head for head excluding no one. This view is preached in many pulpits and widely promoted in books and pamphlets. But this position must be analysed very carefully. Is it really true that Jesus gave His life to save absolutely everybody without exception? Let us ask some questions of this view.

(1) How could the Triune God, who is possessed of infinite wisdom and understanding, send His dearly beloved Son to ransom from sin and Hell those who were already in Hell, a place from which the damned have no way out (cf. Luke 16:26)?

(2) God sent His Word to only one nation, the Israelites, during the Old Testament age, and “He hath not dealt so with any [other] nation” (Ps. 147:19-20; Acts 14:16). Moreover, Jehovah does not send the gospel in the New Testament age to everybody either (cf. Acts 16:6-8; Matt. 24:14). Why then would God send Christ to die for those who never hear the gospel and hence could never be saved (Rom. 10:14, 17)?

(3) The Bible teaches that Judas was “the son of perdition” (John 17:12), that is, a man wholly characterized by perdition, ruin and eternal destruction. Did Jesus really die for Judas when He knew that the Old Testament had already prophesied that Judas would betray Him (Ps. 41:9) and “go to his own place,” namely Hell (Acts 1:25; Ps. 109; John 17:12)?

(4) Scripture states that God hated Esau (Rom. 9:13) but everywhere Christ’s atonement is spoken of as the fruit of God’s love (e.g., John 3:16; 15:13; Rom. 5:8; I John 4:10). How then could God send Christ in His infinite, eternal and boundless love (Eph. 3:18-19) to die for Esau whom He hated? Rev. Stewarthttps://cprc.co.uk/covenant-reformed-news/crnnovember2002/#universal 5

 

[brightfame52]

@PGS11

He is inviting you personally will you accept the invitation?

False

 

[Rightglory]

Is Universal Atonement True? (1)​

A number of readers have asked about the extent or purpose of the atonement, that is, For whom did Christ die? This question is especially important because many evangelicals today believe that Jesus shed His blood for everyone head for head excluding no one. This view is preached in many pulpits and widely promoted in books and pamphlets. But this position must be analysed very carefully. Is it really true that Jesus gave His life to save absolutely everybody without exception? Let us ask some questions of this view.

You develop a straw man then proceed to knock it down. Your question - "is it really true that Jesus gave His life to save absolutely everybody without exception? The Biblical answer is two fold. Yes and No.
One must understand Christ performed two things from His Incarnation and resurrection.
First and primary: Christ specifically became Incarnate, that is, took on our Human nature. The nature that was condemned to death due to Adam's sin. That death was final. Man and the world would be dissolved to dust from which all of it came. God created the world, and God created man from that world. In order to give live, renew His created order, Christ needed to become man, to become consubstantial with the world and man.
Thus by His Incarnation - through His death, Christ defeated death by His resurrection from that death. Thus all men and the world was absolutely without exception saved from death. All men will be raised in the last day to stand in judgement for what they did in their lifetime. No exceptions, since He lost none. It is amazing that some think Christ, by taking on our human nature could lose any to death. He didn't lose the world either. This world will be made anew, a new heaven and new earth at His resurrection.
Now, why did Christ need to do this. To save His created order. The curse of death upon Adam to which the world was also subjected was being destroyed by the power of Satan, namely death. After all He created the world for man. He created man so that He could have communion with man on this earth as well as for eternity. That was ended with the curse of death.

This brings us to the second element of His atonement. Sacrifice for sin. In order for God to have communion with man, sin needed to be remedied. His sacrifice for sin, the shedding of His Blood justified the world to God. Christ became the sacrifice in order to become the High Priest to forgive sin. When a person believes, seeks forgiveness, repents God accepts this person as justified, where the phrase "justified by faith" comes from. Not all men will be saved through this sacrifice. In giving life to all men, God also restored His Image In man which included man's free will. Man will choose whether He will serve God, remain faithful in order to inherit eternal life. or he is free to reject Christ and will also suffer eternal separation from God.
So regarding the sacrifice for sin, ONLY those who believe and remain faithful will attain eternal life with Christ. Or be saved.

 

[Behold]

Is Universal Atonement True? (1)​

For whom did Christ die?

For whom did Christ die?

For these.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS"..

And who is a sinner?

A.) "All have sinned, there is none righteous, no not ONE".

So, that means that John 3:16, is true when it says that God's love for the WORLD (all sinners) is to whom His love is Given, as Jesus on the Cross.

 

[Runningman]

Is Universal Atonement True? (1)​

A number of readers have asked about the extent or purpose of the atonement, that is, For whom did Christ die? This question is especially important because many evangelicals today believe that Jesus shed His blood for everyone head for head excluding no one. This view is preached in many pulpits and widely promoted in books and pamphlets. But this position must be analysed very carefully. Is it really true that Jesus gave His life to save absolutely everybody without exception? Let us ask some questions of this view.

(1) How could the Triune God, who is possessed of infinite wisdom and understanding, send His dearly beloved Son to ransom from sin and Hell those who were already in Hell, a place from which the damned have no way out (cf. Luke 16:26)?

(2) God sent His Word to only one nation, the Israelites, during the Old Testament age, and “He hath not dealt so with any [other] nation” (Ps. 147:19-20; Acts 14:16). Moreover, Jehovah does not send the gospel in the New Testament age to everybody either (cf. Acts 16:6-8; Matt. 24:14). Why then would God send Christ to die for those who never hear the gospel and hence could never be saved (Rom. 10:14, 17)?

(3) The Bible teaches that Judas was “the son of perdition” (John 17:12), that is, a man wholly characterized by perdition, ruin and eternal destruction. Did Jesus really die for Judas when He knew that the Old Testament had already prophesied that Judas would betray Him (Ps. 41:9) and “go to his own place,” namely Hell (Acts 1:25; Ps. 109; John 17:12)?

(4) Scripture states that God hated Esau (Rom. 9:13) but everywhere Christ’s atonement is spoken of as the fruit of God’s love (e.g., John 3:16; 15:13; Rom. 5:8; I John 4:10). How then could God send Christ in His infinite, eternal and boundless love (Eph. 3:18-19) to die for Esau whom He hated? Rev. Stewarthttps://cprc.co.uk/covenant-reformed-news/crnnovember2002/#universal 5

I would suggest you read Romans 5:12-17. It would seem that if limited atonement is true then sin is more powerful than God and that can't be true. Plainly, if everyone can sin then everyone can be atoned for.

Romans 5
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the gift that followed many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

You develop a straw man then proceed to knock it down. Your question - "is it really true that Jesus gave His life to save absolutely everybody with exception? The Biblical answer is two fold. Yes and No.

Thats doublemindness, unstable the answer is simply no, His Death is limited to the Sheep or Elect

 

[brightfame52]

@Behold

For whom did Christ die?

For these.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS"..

That would be the elect and He saved them !

 

[brightfame52]

@Runningman

I would suggest you read Romans 5:12-17.

I have plenty of times over the last 40yrs. Thats all about the elect