Limited atonement !

[Rightglory]

Adam didnt represent the serpent seed friend, they just had to become part of his physical offspring, but they were never Sons of God, only the Sons of God actually sinned Adam, and so their sin is redeemable.

This is the most ridiculous statement, (interpretation I have ever heard.
Nothing I stated nor inferred would lead to this statement.

See Christ, the seed of women cant be the Kinsman redeemer for the Serpent and his seed

I don't understand any of what you say here either. Is this modern man's version of the fall?

All I know scripture states that Adam was created in God's Image. He created him as a man, male. Later He created Eve , women, from his flesh, thus both are human beings. They both bear the same human nature. The Virgin Mary gave to Christ that same human nature. The world, Adam and Mary, all human beings and Christ in His Human nature are consubstantial. Which is why because of the curse of death to Adam, all human beings became mortal. It is that mortality that every baby bears that was born from the beginning, including Christ's human nature. Any change in one changes all.
Thus because death came to this creation as a consequence of Adam's sin, so life came to all men, the world, as a consequence of Christ's resurrected human nature.
This is why I have been explaining to you that limited atonement is an impossibility due to the resurrection of our human nature born by Christ which was raised to life due to His resurrection.
I showed you all of this from just Rom 5:12, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-16. I John 4:14 John 4:42
There are many other texts that same the same thing, Many explicitly, others by inference.


The only way your view could be even possible would be the following
Man never suffered death as a result of Adam's sin.
Christ is just another man, was never Incarnated with our human nature.
In fact Christ never arose from the dead.
And Christ had no salvic content or purpose in whatever you think He might have done.

 

[amigo de christo]

Atonement applies only TO THOSE WHO BELEIVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
but readers beware , i SAID JESUS THE CHRIST
not some other jesus that loves to twist and omit his words . cause that jesus cannot save squat .
SO the key is
IF a man cliams to BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST
then see if he BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS , THE TRUTH . cause if not , yeah they believing in another jesus all right .

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

I don't understand any of what you say here either. Is this modern man's version of the fall?

I know you dont understand it and never will unless God has mercy on you. Nevertheless, when men sinned in Adam Rom 5:12 they sinned as Sons of God, and so they were redeemable by their near kinsman Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ, He was their Brother Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

However, the serpent seed offspring and the serpent had no such relation with Jesus Christ, He was not the Near Kinsman. Do you think the Lord Jesus Christ was a Near Kinsman, Brother to the serpent and his seed ?

 

[brightfame52]

Isaiah 53 Teaches Particular Redemption​

Isaiah 53 is the greatest chapter in the Old Testament, and possibly in the whole Bible, on our Saviour’s substitutionary atonement. The “us” for whose sins Christ was “wounded” (4-6) are given specific names: “my people” (8), “his seed” (10), and the “many”—not all men head for head (11-12). They are the “pleasure of the Lord” who “prosper in his hand” (10). God never made the reprobate “prosper in his hand” and He was never pleased with them (Ps. 2:4-5; Prov. 3:32-34). They are not His “seed,” “people” and “pleasure,” so Jesus did not die for them.

Those for whom Christ died “are healed” by “his stripes” (Isa. 53:5). It is not merely that they might be healed if they believe, but they really are healed. Those whose sins the Son bore are also justified: “my righteous servant [shall] justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities” (11). God’s elect “people” (8) are declared perfectly righteous for Christ bore our punishment (11). The reprobate are not justified, thus He did not atone for them. It is for the “many” whose sins He bore that the Saviour intercedes (12). Remember, Jesus said, “I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me” (John 17:9). The “many” for whom Christ suffered and for whom He prays are the elect, not the reprobate world.

In this way, Jesus is perfectly “satisfied” (Isa. 53:11). If some for whom He was “stricken” (8) and for whom He intercedes (12) are not healed (5) and justified (11) and do not “prosper in his hand” (10) and do not receive a share in His spoils (12), Christ would not be “satisfied” (11). If even one soul perishes for whom He died, Christ’s purpose is not fully realised, His atonement is not totally successful and He is dissatisfied. The notion that Jesus shed His precious blood for everybody head for head presents the cross as an abject failure with regard to most of those for whom He died and contradicts the Bible’s teaching that Christ is “satisfied” with the fruit of His death (11). Rev AS

 

[brightfame52]

Atonement applies only TO THOSE WHO BELEIVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
but readers beware , i SAID JESUS THE CHRIST
not some other jesus that loves to twist and omit his words . cause that jesus cannot save squat .
SO the key is
IF a man cliams to BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST
then see if he BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS , THE TRUTH . cause if not , yeah they believing in another jesus all right .

Only those whom Jesus atoned for shall believe. His atonement caused it.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



I know you dont understand it and never will unless God has mercy on you. Nevertheless, when men sinned in Adam Rom 5:12 they sinned as Sons of God, and so they were redeemable by their near kinsman Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ, He was their Brother Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

However, the serpent seed offspring and the serpent had no such relation with Jesus Christ, He was not the Near Kinsman. Do you think the Lord Jesus Christ was a Near Kinsman, Brother to the serpent and his seed ?

What a twisted bunch of nonsense.
At the very least I would recommend you do some serious research on the fall of man and just what happened in the Garden and Adam's relationship with Christ as the second Adam. Your theology is so twisted it is unrecognizable as scripture.
I challenge anyone on this forum to explain any of the above based on scripture.
You need a lot of help and prayer to see the Light.

 

[brightfame52]

What a twisted bunch of nonsense.
At the very least I would recommend you do some serious research on the fall of man and just what happened in the Garden and Adam's relationship with Christ as the second Adam. Your theology is so twisted it is unrecognizable as scripture.
I challenge anyone on this forum to explain any of the above based on scripture.
You need a lot of help and prayer to see the Light.

So is the devil and his children, kin to Jesus Christ ? Is He their kinsman redeemer ? Scripture distinguishes from children of the devil and children of God 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jesus came to gather the children of God Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

[Rightglory]

So is the devil and his children, kin to Jesus Christ ? Is He their kinsman redeemer ? Scripture distinguishes from children of the devil and children of God 1 Jn 3:10

If you are going to use I John 3:10l then both the children of God and the children of the devil would make up all of mankind. The difference between them is some believe and some do not.
This text has nothing to with the fall of Adam or what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection.

This is why your assertions are such gross misrepresentations of scripture. You mix-match single verse outside of any context, then assign them to a different context making all of it just nonsense as your statement above.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

We show by our actions what choice we made in our lives. Some choose Christ and some choose not to serve Him. These can be interchanged by any individual from one group to another.

Jesus came to gather the children of God Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Again, you go to the context of Jesus' trial to somehow show the difference between elect and non elect. The characters are Caiaphas, and the Jews, vs Romans. He makes a plea to the crowd that it would be better to give up one man (Jesus) to save the nation (Israel), rather than let Rome intervene and possibly lose the nation. Caiaphas was allowed to speak prophetically that Jesus would die for the nation, but not only for Israel, but for all nations, those scattered abroad.
Hindsight, we know the prophecy was fulfilled, that by Christ's death and resurrection He, through the Holy Spirit, can call men to repentance. This has been going on for 2000 years. Many believe and many do not. Some that believe fall away.
These texts have nothing to do with the nonsense you posted in the last several posts.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

If you are going to use I John 3:10l then both the children of God and the children of the devil would make up all of mankind.

Duh thats been established, part of mankind is Gods children, sons, and part the devils children sons. Christ being a Son of God came to redeem the sons of God His Brethren. Do you think He came to redeem the devils children ? Was He in a Kinsman redeemer relationship with the devil ?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have given my reasons why, try reading the thread and my points.

Sorry, I will not do your work for you. So you have made an empty accusation I am wrong as far as I am concerned. If you are too lazy to answer me personally then it is sad.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, I will not do your work for you. So you have made an empty accusation I am wrong as far as I am concerned. If you are too lazy to answer me personally then it is sad.

Lol, Trust me, I would never want you to do any scriptural work for me, you reject the Gospel

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



Duh thats been established, part of mankind is Gods children, sons, and part the devils children sons. Christ being a Son of God came to redeem the sons of God His Brethren. Do you think He came to redeem the devils children ? Was He in a Kinsman redeemer relationship with the devil ?

All human beings are loved by God. After all He died for sinners. Do you know anyone that is not a sinner? Christ took on our human nature, so He is part of every human being, The world from which man was created, man himself, eve from Adam, and Christ all have the very same nature. We are consubstantial which is why when He raised that human nature to life by His resurrection. Now all men will be held accountable for what they do. Man is free to choose God, to serve Him, or not to serve Him. God is not a respecter of persons.

All the nonsense that you spout off has nothing to do with what scripture actually teaches.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel

... according to the devil

So called "limited atonement" is actually doctrines of demons and are in opposition to the following scripture references as always the devil is claiming things God says are not true... beware the calvinist cult!

Limited Atonement is FALSE

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

NOTE - Romans 8:29,30 is not saying all are automatically saved which would be the false doctrine of universalism, but rather is teaching us that God has in fact provided opportunity for all to be saved which is evident in the scripture references below

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone

Yeah, YOU might be one of the ones it does not cover... too bad for you homie!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Christ was not their Surety and never died for their sins.

Wrong yet again...

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It seems you really have to bend way backwards as you jump through many hoops to make this doctrine fit.

That's what the calvinist cult does!

 

[Runningman]

My comment remains.

I understand that. However, I have shown verses that challenge the limited atonement philosophy you brought up in the OP. Do you still want to talk about this subject? You opened the thread, I replied, you haven't engaged me. It's ok if you don't have an answer. All good brother.

Does anyone else want to talk about how the elect can be led astray by fake messiahs?

The elect being led astray by false Christs is a Biblically viable teaching, Mark 13:21-22, 2 Thess. 2:9-12, 1 John 2:18-19, etc.

 

[brightfame52]

Ephesians 1 Teaches Particular Redemption by Rev AS​

Ephesians 1:3 declares that we have been blessed “with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.” These blessings come to us “according as he [i.e., God] hath chosen us in him [i.e., Christ] before the foundation of the world” (4), that is, we receive all these blessings according to our eternal election (4) and predestination (5). Ephesians 1 enumerates some of our spiritual blessings: holiness (4), adoption (5), acceptance with God (6), redemption (7), the forgiveness of sins (7), the knowledge of God’s will (9), the sealing of the Holy Spirit (13) and an eternal inheritance (11, 14). Not only are we blessed according to our election (4, 5) but all the elect have “all spiritual blessings” (3). On the other hand, the fact that the reprobate are not blessed with any of these spiritual blessings is also according to the eternal “purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will” (11).

One of the spiritual blessings we have in Christ is “redemption through his blood” (7). Thus the Son’s redemption or atonement is an instance of those spiritual blessings which come to us “according as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world” (4). Therefore, the Lord redeemed, shed His blood and died for the elect and not for the reprobate. Thus the elect are forgiven (7), adopted (5), accepted (6), made holy (4) and sealed with the Spirit (13) for their eternal inheritance (11, 14) on the basis of our Saviour’s cross. The reprobate do not receive any of the spiritual blessings of Christ’s sacrifice, for He did not die for them. 3

 

[brightfame52]

I understand that. However, I have shown verses that challenge the limited atonement philosophy you brought up in the OP. Do you still want to talk about this subject? You opened the thread, I replied, you haven't engaged me. It's ok if you don't have an answer. All good brother.

Does anyone else want to talk about how the elect can be led astray by fake messiahs?

The elect being led astray by false Christs is a Biblically viable teaching, Mark 13:21-22, 2 Thess. 2:9-12, 1 John 2:18-19, etc.

See Post 204, it explains my view against yours

Limited atonement !

Adam didnt represent the serpent seed friend, they just had to become part of his physical offspring, but they were never Sons of God, only the Sons of God actually sinned Adam, and so their sin is redeemable. This is the most ridiculous statement, (interpretation I have ever heard. Nothing...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong yet again...

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Thats the elect, sheep