Limited atonement !

[David Lamb]

You seem to be in the same boat as Brightfame52. He denies most of scripture to support his personal theology that Christ redeemed ONLY some people, which he also believers were predestinated as believers or to be believers. In this context it is natural to accept the idea that Jesus died ONLY for His Sheep.

However, there is nothing in scripture that supports this concept.

Yet I base what I believe on Scripture. I quote verses which make it abundantly clear that Jesus Christ died to save His people, whom He refers to as "sheep" or "My sheep."

Here is a quote from your post above:

"Not according to the bible. He died for the sheep. He had the name Jesus because He would save His people, not just make salvation a possibility for everybody:"

He did die for the sheep. The sheep in the analogy is the human race.

The sheep is not an analogy for the human race. Otherwise, there would be no point in Jesus saying that He laid down His life for the sheep - He would just have said "everybody."

He died for all men, otherwise it would have been impossible to have any sheep that could be called His Sheep. Yes, Christ died for every human being. Not a single human being will be lost to the condemnation of death, the curse all humans bear because of Adam. Your interpretation actually leaves all human beings still under the condemnation of death, thus there can be no heaven or hell, nor a new Earth and a new Heaven.

I ask you again, what does it mean to say that He died for all men? Just to make the salvation of all men a possibility? That is not biblical. Joseph was told to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. Where does the bible say that Jesus died to make salvation possible rather than actually to save?

For your benefit I will cite the texts which denies Brightfame52 whole theology, which I already gave to him numerous times. which also denies your understanding above.
Heb 2:9 Christ died for all.
Heb 2:14-15 explains why Christ needed to assume our human natures ....that through death He might destroy him who had the power over death and sin.
Why did He need to die for all men?
Rom 5:12 explains that. Because all men suffered the condemnation of death through Adam. That death was pronounced in Gen 3:19.
Rom 5:18 makes it very clear as well. Through ONE man's offense judgement (death) came to all men,.....even so through ONE MAN'S righteous act a free gift came to all men, resulting in life.
I Cor 15:12-22 summarizes Christ's Incarnation as well. Read it very carefully. the summation is in vs 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
I Cor 15: 53-54 it clearly states again the resurrection was for all men. All the dead shall be raised immortal and incorruptible.
There are actually many more that support universal redemption.

Even the sacrifice for sin was for all people as well, I John 2:2

It cannot be more clear what scripture teaches regarding the Incarnation and Christ redemptive work.
What you will not find is anything supporting either predestination of believers or a limited atonement.

Nothing supporting predestination? Writing to Christians at Ephesus, Paul says:

“having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” (Eph 1:5 NKJV)

“In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,” (Eph 1:11 NKJV)

Particular Redemption (what some call "Limited Atonement") is what is taught when Jesus said that He laid down His life for the sheep.

I have no objection at all to you saying that you don't agree with my interpretation of the bible, but please don't say that there is nothing in Scripture which supports what I believe.

 

[brightfame52]

John 17 Teaches Particular Redemption

In His high priestly prayer in John 17, Jesus states, “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine” (9). The “world” here is the world of the reprobate or non-elect for whom the incarnate Son of God does not pray, as opposed to the elect (“them which thou hast given me”).

If the Lord did not do the lesser thing (pray for the reprobate world), did He really do the greater thing (die for the reprobate world)? Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede. Furthermore, the Saviour prays on the basis of His finished work of redemption (Isa. 53:12; Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25-27; 9:24-26). Therefore, if He did not pray for the world, it is because He did not die for the world.

In John 17, Jesus is praying just hours before the cross and with a view to His sacrificial death, for He says, “Father, the hour is come” (1). Throughout John 17, Christ’s prayers and, therefore, His redeeming work are particular, only for the elect, those whom the Father gave Him (2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24). Our Lord’s prayers that the Father keep (11-16), sanctify (17-19), unite (20-23) and glorify (24-26) “as many as thou hast given him” (2) are powerfully answered, for we are granted “eternal life” (2-3).

Jesus says, “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified” (19). Christ’s sanctifying Himself is His consecrating and dedicating Himself to do the will of Him who sent Him. Our Lord especially set Himself apart as our willing sacrifice on the cross. This, He tells us, was “for their sakes,” for those whom the Father gave Him, the elect. Thus Christ’s prayers and sacrifice are not only particular—”for them which thou hast given me” (9)—but also exclusive, “not for the world” (9). By AS 3

 

[brightfame52]

He died for every human being, so that all of mankind would be free to choose whether to serve Him or become a member of a false church.
Just as He died for everyone who will be judged to hell. It was their choice to reject Him.

You are sadly mistaken

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

Your premise is false, non scriptural, thus your arguments are false.

You just think so, its plain to me Jesus died exclusively for His Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

Well I posted no error. It is you that said it was error. so now show why.

saying something wrong is easy. showing it from SCripture is what is needed.

I have given my reasons why, try reading the thread and my points.

 

[Rightglory]

Yet I base what I believe on Scripture. I quote verses which make it abundantly clear that Jesus Christ died to save His people, whom He refers to as "sheep" or "My sheep."

Well, that is not saying much. Every false teaching has been based on scripture. Citing scripture and then putting your spin on it does not make it a Truth of scripture.

The sheep is not an analogy for the human race. Otherwise, there would be no point in Jesus saying that He laid down His life for the sheep - He would just have said "everybody."

So, He starts out with the concept He is the shepherd, uses sheep. Now, would it make sense that He would then switch midstream to speak about human beings, or everyone? Nice innovation to get around an unbiblical concept.

I ask you again, what does it mean to say that He died for all men? Just to make the salvation of all men a possibility? That is not biblical. Joseph was told to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. Where does the bible say that Jesus died to make salvation possible rather than actually to save?
.

Christ saved the world from the condemnation of death through Adam. Without His Incarnation, death and resurrection, having "His Sheep" would be an impossibility. We are all still condemned to permanent death. We would not need to worry about sins, they would be irrelevant. Which is why He is called the Savior of the world, I John 4 14. John 4:42.

You are correct in using the phrase, "make it possible " to again have communion with His most prized creation - man who was made the image of Himself. Without overcoming death, there is no eternity. Man was created to be eternal. Christ did not save any individual, unilaterally either. We are being saved through our faith, belief in Christ. Man is free to choose whether he will serve God or reject God. God does not make that decision for man. He desires all men to be saved. He calls all men to repentance. It would be quite hypocritical to desire all men to be saved, but only die for some men, so that some could believe.

Nothing supporting predestination? Writing to Christians at Ephesus, Paul says:

“having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” (Eph 1:5 NKJV)

Paul is addressing believers and vs 4 clearly states that He chose us IN HIM,. It does not say He chose us to be in Him. We must first be in Him. The Church was one of the things that was elected, just as Israel was in the OT. He predestined those that believe, became by faith part of His Church, His Sheep, to be conformed to His Image, to be Holy.
Eph 2:1-5 reinforces the concept of Christ giving life to all men again. He is speaking to believers about believers, however to be made alive, some translations use the more clear interpretation 'quicken" which can only apply to life in the physical form, not spiritual, He repeats it in vs 5 but adds the parentheses, That we have been saved, past tense by grace, and made alive with Christ. Christ arose and by virtue of His Incarnation, He raised all men to life. In this context it would not make sense in the spiritual because here it would infer that Christ was alse dead in sins and tresspasses.

“In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,” (Eph 1:11 NKJV)

Particular Redemption (what some call "Limited Atonement") is what is taught when Jesus said that He laid down His life for the sheep.

I have no objection at all to you saying that you don't agree with my interpretation of the bible, but please don't say that there is nothing in Scripture which supports what I believe.

All men first were saved from death, so that Christ could call all men to repentance to join with Him, in HIS BODY, the Church. When one believes through faith in Christ one, repents, is baptized, receives the Holy Spirit becomes a member of His Church. If that person remains faithful he will inherit eternal life with Christ, I Pet 1:3-5.

No predestination of an individual to believe. Wholly an act of man making a choice, answering the call of the Holy Spirit. No limited atonement.
You are certainly free to believe what you want from scripture. But if you use your own understanding or interpretation of doctrine, what do you use to determine TRUTH, yourself? It cannot be the Bible, since every false teaching from the beginning to present day has been developed from scripture.

 

[David Lamb]

Well, that is not saying much. Every false teaching has been based on scripture. Citing scripture and then putting your spin on it does not make it a Truth of scripture.

So, He starts out with the concept He is the shepherd, uses sheep. Now, would it make sense that He would then switch midstream to speak about human beings, or everyone? Nice innovation to get around an unbiblical concept.

Christ saved the world from the condemnation of death through Adam. Without His Incarnation, death and resurrection, having "His Sheep" would be an impossibility. We are all still condemned to permanent death. We would not need to worry about sins, they would be irrelevant. Which is why He is called the Savior of the world, I John 4 14. John 4:42.

You are correct in using the phrase, "make it possible " to again have communion with His most prized creation - man who was made the image of Himself. Without overcoming death, there is no eternity. Man was created to be eternal. Christ did not save any individual, unilaterally either. We are being saved through our faith, belief in Christ. Man is free to choose whether he will serve God or reject God. God does not make that decision for man. He desires all men to be saved. He calls all men to repentance. It would be quite hypocritical to desire all men to be saved, but only die for some men, so that some could believe.

Paul is addressing believers and vs 4 clearly states that He chose us IN HIM,. It does not say He chose us to be in Him. We must first be in Him. The Church was one of the things that was elected, just as Israel was in the OT. He predestined those that believe, became by faith part of His Church, His Sheep, to be conformed to His Image, to be Holy.
Eph 2:1-5 reinforces the concept of Christ giving life to all men again. He is speaking to believers about believers, however to be made alive, some translations use the more clear interpretation 'quicken" which can only apply to life in the physical form, not spiritual, He repeats it in vs 5 but adds the parentheses, That we have been saved, past tense by grace, and made alive with Christ. Christ arose and by virtue of His Incarnation, He raised all men to life. In this context it would not make sense in the spiritual because here it would infer that Christ was alse dead in sins and tresspasses.


All men first were saved from death, so that Christ could call all men to repentance to join with Him, in HIS BODY, the Church. When one believes through faith in Christ one, repents, is baptized, receives the Holy Spirit becomes a member of His Church. If that person remains faithful he will inherit eternal life with Christ, I Pet 1:3-5.

No predestination of an individual to believe. Wholly an act of man making a choice, answering the call of the Holy Spirit. No limited atonement.
You are certainly free to believe what you want from scripture. But if you use your own understanding or interpretation of doctrine, what do you use to determine TRUTH, yourself? It cannot be the Bible, since every false teaching from the beginning to present day has been developed from scripture.

I don't think we will ever agree on this. We could keep answering each other's posts as we are doing, but I find that we are both repeating the same things that we have said before, which cannot be very edifying for others here. With that in mind, I am "bowing out" of this discussion. Thank you for your posts, and may God bless you richly!

 

[Rightglory]

John 17 Teaches Particular Redemption

In His high priestly prayer in John 17, Jesus states, “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine” (9). The “world” here is the world of the reprobate or non-elect for whom the incarnate Son of God does not pray, as opposed to the elect (“them which thou hast given me”).

This is what happens when you pick and choose words or phrases out of context and apply them to something not even in the context.
You got one thing correct. This is Christ High Priestly prayer, Let's break it down to its parts:
vs 1-5 Jesus is praying for Himself.
Vs 6-19 He is specifically praying for His disciples
Vs 20-23 He is praying for His Church
vs 24-26 He is praying for all. All those that were given Him, not just the apostles, The all men that we find in Col 1:16-20 or John 10:39, or II Pet 3:9; Rom 2:4.

If the Lord did not do the lesser thing (pray for the reprobate world), did He really do the greater thing (die for the reprobate world)? Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede. Furthermore, the Saviour prays on the basis of His finished work of redemption (Isa. 53:12; Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25-27; 9:24-26). Therefore, if He did not pray for the world, it is because He did not die for the world.

Scripture says He died for the world, He is the Savior of the World, I John 2:14, John 4:42
He reconciled the world to God. II Cor 5:18-19, All things were given to Him Col 1:20, He will raise all of them and lose none, John 10:39. Oh He actually gave life to all men, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22. In order to give life by His resurrection, I presume He also died for all.

In John 17, Jesus is praying just hours before the cross and with a view to His sacrificial death, for He says, “Father, the hour is come” (1). Throughout John 17, Christ’s prayers and, therefore, His redeeming work are particular, only for the elect, those whom the Father gave Him (2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24). Our Lord’s prayers that the Father keep (11-16), sanctify (17-19), unite (20-23) and glorify (24-26) “as many as thou hast given him” (2) are powerfully answered, for we are granted “eternal life” (2-3).

The only section that applies to those you call elect, are vs 20-23

.

Jesus says, “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified” (19). Christ’s sanctifying Himself is His consecrating and dedicating Himself to do the will of Him who sent Him. Our Lord especially set Himself apart as our willing sacrifice on the cross. This, He tells us, was “for their sakes,” for those whom the Father gave Him, the elect. Thus Christ’s prayers and sacrifice are not only particular—”for them which thou hast given me” (9)—but also exclusive, “not for the world” (9). By AS 3

Another excellent example of using a context and picking out phrases that you need to bolster your theories, but are not near to what the context is even saying. You are beating your head against a stone. You will find nothing in scripture that supports your theories without grossly misinterpreting them.

 

[brightfame52]

This is what happens when you pick and choose words or phrases out of context and apply them to something not even in the context.
You got one thing correct. This is Christ High Priestly prayer, Let's break it down to its parts:
vs 1-5 Jesus is praying for Himself.
Vs 6-19 He is specifically praying for His disciples
Vs 20-23 He is praying for His Church
vs 24-26 He is praying for all. All those that were given Him, not just the apostles, The all men that we find in Col 1:16-20 or John 10:39, or II Pet 3:9; Rom 2:4.

Scripture says He died for the world, He is the Savior of the World, I John 2:14, John 4:42
He reconciled the world to God. II Cor 5:18-19, All things were given to Him Col 1:20, He will raise all of them and lose none, John 10:39. Oh He actually gave life to all men, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22. In order to give life by His resurrection, I presume He also died for all.

The only section that applies to those you call elect, are vs 20-23

Another excellent example of using a context and picking out phrases that you need to bolster your theories, but are not near to what the context is even saying. You are beating your head against a stone. You will find nothing in scripture that supports your theories without grossly misinterpreting them.

Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede.

He intercedes for them He died, the elect Rom8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Rightglory]

I don't think we will ever agree on this. We could keep answering each other's posts as we are doing, but I find that we are both repeating the same things that we have said before, which cannot be very edifying for others here. With that in mind, I am "bowing out" of this discussion. Thank you for your posts, and may God bless you richly!

I accept that we will not agree. However, what seems so obvious to me is not obvious to others. However, a lot of Biblical Truth would of necessity need to be denied also.
That man did not suffer Condemnation of death through Adam.
Christ did not die for mankind, the world
If He did not die for mankind, then He Himself was not like unto us, but must have been something else but could not have been Incarnated.
Christ is nothing more than a good teacher, did not rise from the dead, if you believe He did, then His resurrection had no salvic content.
There will be no eternity, new heaven, new earth, for anyone.
Your theology contradicts most of scripture to the contrary, How can your view be consistent with the rest of scripture

Conversely, one would need to hold that man has no choice whether one goes to heaven or hell, assuming there is such a thing.
We are mere puppets. gogs in a wheel. Not created in His Image.
God cannot be love, He actually hates some men.
God is arbitrary, particular, has no justice, is capricious

You do not need to answer, but I leave this for you to contemplate.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

I accept that we will not agree. However, what seems so obvious to me is not obvious to others. However, a lot of Biblical Truth would of necessity need to be denied also.
That man did not suffer Condemnation of death through Adam.
Christ did not die for mankind, the world
If He did not die for mankind, then He Himself was not like unto us, but must have been something else but could not have been Incarnated.

Adam didnt represent all mankind originally, but only the Sons of God, for he himself was a son of God at creation Lk 3:38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Adam was only representative of the Fall of the Sons of God, and not the children or seed of the serpent Gen 3:14-15

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

So Adam was the Natural Head for the Sons of God, the Seed of the women.

The seed of the serpent was a add on after the fall and they are the children of the devil versus the children of God 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Rightglory]

Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede.

He does not intercede for anyone, unless or until one believes and becomes a member of His Body, His Church. Howevr, your so-called non-elect are not left alone. After all every human being will give an account to God for what each did with the knowledge of God. Rom 1:18-24 Rom 2:5-9. Rev 20 11-13.
My question to you - How can there even be a hell for them, if Christ did not first give life to them, so that they were raised from the dead in order to give an account.

He intercedes for them He died, the elect Rom8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Never denied that He intercedes for believers.
However, the primary work of the Holy Spirit in this world, is to call all men to repentance. Why would He do that if it has no effect or as you hold, the non-elect are hated by God and will burn in Hell. He ONLY works upon predestined believers.
You may believe there is a hell, but your theology denies such existence.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

He does not intercede for anyone, unless or until one believes

False teaching, He makes intercession for transgressors Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Lk 23:34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



Adam didnt represent all mankind originally, but only the Sons of God, for he himself was a son of God at creation Lk 3:38

Based on both geneologies, one in Luke who goes backward from Mary, and Matt forward from Adam. This has nothing to do with mankind, but simply the geneology of Christ by virtue of His Incarnation through Mary and the Holy Spirit.

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Adam was only representative of the Fall of the Sons of God, and not the children or seed of the serpent Gen 3:14-15

So you hold that ONLY the individuals of Christ's geneology sinned or fell? Where did you ever get this or is this one of your ideas to bolster your idea that Adam was not really a human being, just a representative of man?

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

So Adam was the Natural Head for the Sons of God, the Seed of the women.

The above text has nothing to do with Adam. Gen 3:14-15 is God speaking to the serpent (devil). There will be a war between the seed of the devil and seed of the women, namely Christ. That war between Satan and Christ has been going on ever since and will not end until Christ comes again.
By the way the next vs 16 is the curse upon eve, Then 17-19 is the curse of Adam. You know that dust to dust.

The seed of the serpent was a add on after the fall and they are the children of the devil versus the children of God 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

As I stated above, there is a war going on over the souls of men. Christ recreated the Image of God in man by His Incarnation, death and sresurrection. There is now consequences for man's actions. Satan is trying to lure believers away from Christ. Christ is working to lure men away from Satan. Satan already knows Christ is the victor since Christ defeated Him by raising all men from death, that curse Adam got.
This is why the devil is working so diligently to get as many men as he can.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



False teaching, He makes intercession for transgressors Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Lk 23:34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

So you disagree with your own statement. The point here does He intercede for those you call non-elect? You stated before that He intercedes ONLY for those He died for. Can we assume then that all the Pharisees, Caiphas, Pilate, the Roman soldiers at His so-called trial were all elect and saved?

 

[Rightglory]

You are sadly mistaken

You never give any texts to show scripture as I presented it is false. You make statements like above but it just an assertion.
Like scripture to support your premise that Christ died ONLY for so-called elect? If this is what you believe then how does scripture support it against all the texts of scripture that clearly deny such a theory.
I might also add some historical notes here as well. Limited atonement has never been a doctrine of the Church. Calvin is the very first man to develop this theory of limited atonement against what the Church always believed as well as most Protestants, specifically Armenians whose ideas He was rejecting.
At that time the two Churches, Orthodox and Roman Catholic objected to it. Orthodox declared Calvinism heretical in the Council of Jerusalem in 1672. The Roman Catholics produced a treatise against Calvins specific ideas at the Council of Trent 1545-1563.
The fact is that it has never been a doctrine held from the beginning rather a modern, new theory from scripture developed by a man.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have given my reasons why, try reading the thread and my points.

No you said I am in error so I expect you to tell me why. I am not going through all your posts and threads to see if you have addressed this. That is your job.

 

[brightfame52]

Based on both geneologies, one in Luke who goes backward from Mary, and Matt forward from Adam. This has nothing to do with mankind, but simply the geneology of Christ by virtue of His Incarnation through Mary and the Holy Spirit.

So you hold that ONLY the individuals of Christ's geneology sinned or fell? Where did you ever get this or is this one of your ideas to bolster your idea that Adam was not really a human being, just a representative of man?

The above text has nothing to do with Adam. Gen 3:14-15 is God speaking to the serpent (devil). There will be a war between the seed of the devil and seed of the women, namely Christ. That war between Satan and Christ has been going on ever since and will not end until Christ comes again.
By the way the next vs 16 is the curse upon eve, Then 17-19 is the curse of Adam. You know that dust to dust.

As I stated above, there is a war going on over the souls of men. Christ recreated the Image of God in man by His Incarnation, death and sresurrection. There is now consequences for man's actions. Satan is trying to lure believers away from Christ. Christ is working to lure men away from Satan. Satan already knows Christ is the victor since Christ defeated Him by raising all men from death, that curse Adam got.
This is why the devil is working so diligently to get as many men as he can.

Adam didnt represent the serpent seed friend, they just had to become part of his physical offspring, but they were never Sons of God, only the Sons of God actually sinned Adam, and so their sin is redeemable.

See Christ, the seed of women cant be the Kinsman redeemer for the Serpent and his seed

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

So you disagree with your own statement.

No with your foolish unlearned statement

 

[brightfame52]

No you said I am in error so I expect you to tell me why. I am not going through all your posts and threads to see if you have addressed this. That is your job.

I have given my reasons why, try reading the thread and my points.