Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

Here is a cross reference of Matthew 1:20-21

John 1:29
"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

Does world here mean terra firma, or people? Does the dirt sin??

Romans 5:18
“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”

Does the word "all men" mean He was kidding? And, the free gift was only for "some men"??

Seems it takes some crazy strong faith to believe what you teach. Be careful as you can never know for sure, you could be kidding yourself and can only hope you are saved.

Why is it that you and those like you seem to be downright giddy that the large majority will burn in hell over nothing but God's whim. Sad.

John 12:32​

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.”

Jesus is God Himself so, I do not see some, or elect here I see ALL MEN. And we KNOW it is not His will that any perish, and that is a perfect example of free will because we know that not ALL MEN will accept this free gift.

Yes certain men were raised up for evil, because they always were, and God uses them for His purposes because He knew the end from the beginning. Certain men will be honored above others like the martyrs and the Apostles and, I believe ALL saved Christians are the "elect". But hey, to each their own.

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[brightfame52]

We all see through a glass darkly but the scriptures are pretty clear on this issue

Scripture is fine, however people are deceived as to what scripture teach. All who deny limited atonement are deceived. Scripture teaches effectual particular atonement for the elect/Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

Being born again is a resurrection of a dead spirit that was destroyed by sin, within man. It is by this means we have union with Christ and thereby God. However, God chooses who will be born again as a result of the free will choice man makes to have union with him through faith. It is not a means by which he excludes some by his own divine choice.

Whosoever believes in him will be born again.

One has to be born again first in order to believe in Jesus

 

[shepherdsword]

One has to be born again first in order to believe in Jesus

Prove this with scripture

 

[shepherdsword]

Scripture is fine, however people are deceived as to what scripture teach. All who deny limited atonement are deceived. Scripture teaches effectual particular atonement for the elect/Sheep

Anyone who believes that atonement is limited is ignoring the scriptures.

 

[shepherdsword]

That is not how the inspired word says that we are Born Of The Spirit......resurrection of a dead spirit?....how can my spirit have been dead as a non Born Again that I once was...if I was still living and breathing?

My belief is...we are alienated from the Spirit of God ...that was until God decided to birth my spirit into His...Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....a Living seed that penetrates the heart of his child, the Spirit manifests himself in our spirit/ taken up permanent residence in our spirit...hence being Born Of The Spirit.

That’s your belief and it’s not biblical..you add to the word of God.



Jesus has explained in the inspired word how we are Born Of The Spirit...one never know the day or time as the Spirit is like the wind..you never know when Spirit will give birth to our spirit.

You can’t believe in Jesus or God, unless the Spirit gives birth to our spirit..for there is where we know God ,in our spirit,that is where he reveals himself to us, via his Spirit.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God...not by man’s will...by the testimony of the Living Holy Spirit.

Our spirit must be Born Again to know the Living God, we communicate with God in our spirit...God is not a Bible...I needed the testimony of Gods Living Spirit..to truly know him in my heart...that is where we are called to seek him out...my heart yearns to know more of the heart of God, The Bible confirms this.

Prove this with scripture

We know God in our heart...as we grow in faith and maturity..we learn to believe in what he says and we learn to trust him from within our spirit....

I believe in the Spirit Of God because my spirit is Born Again...that I have NEVER once doubted...Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....once Born Of The Spirit...we belong to the Spirit Of God and no other...in the world...no longer of the world...we are in the righteousness of Christ...being conformed into Jesus image..Praise God.

Prove this with scripture

 

[Ritajanice]

Prove this with scripture

Prove this with scripture

I already have..we are Born Of The Spirit..the Spirit testifies “ with our spirit “ that we are the children of God?

Now you explain what that means?..and i ask you for the umpteenth time..what are you saved from and what in you has been saved/ Born Again?

If you are Born Again then you must know what you have been saved from?



We are Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed..which means what?

You understanding of Born Again..doesn’t resonate with my spirit...as you add to Gods word..on how we are Born Of The Spirit.....that’s why I refute your posts...Born Of The Spirit comes by divine heart revelation...just as the inspired word says.

Born of the Spirit.....Spirit gives birth to spirit...?..how would I know of this Living Spirit birth, that you seem to deny..even though it’s Biblical...Spirit gives birth to spirit?

How are you reconciled back to God...only by the death and resurrection of Jesus..I think not...our spirit is reconciled back to God, when it becomes Born Again.....it’s because of Jesus death and resurrection that that our spirit can be reconciled back to our Spirit Father God.

You tell me how you can know or “ believe “ in Jesus..without first being Born Again by His Living Holy Spirit?

How do you know God and Jesus,by whose testimony?..I’ve asked you this question countless times?

 

[brightfame52]

Prove this with scripture

Thats not my job to prove anything to you when you have rejected all the scripture I have given thus far

 

[brightfame52]

Anyone who believes that atonement is limited is ignoring the scriptures.

Contrary, anyone who denies limited atonement ignores scripture.

 

[Ritajanice]

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Does that mean ,all those who were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world?

Those who became Born Again by the will of God?

God does say that we are chosen and predestined to be conformed into Jesus image....

So,God limits who becomes Born Again....?

Pretty obvious he knows who he will let into his Kingdom..his word says so...you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Then you get some who interpret what it means to be Born Of The Spirit...therefore adding to Gods inspired word.trying to confuse his word...

 

[shepherdsword]

Thats not my job to prove anything to you when you have rejected all the scripture I have given thus far

Says the man who totally ignores all of these:

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

1 Jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish

Ro 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Ro 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Can you deal with any of these?

 

[Ritajanice]

• Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
• Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
• Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
• John 10:11, 15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”
• Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”
• Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”
• Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”
• Eph. 5:25-27 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
• Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”
• Heb. 9:15, 28 “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
• Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”

 

[Rockerduck]

Says the man who totally ignores all of these:

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

1 Jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish

Ro 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Ro 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Can you deal with any of these?

It does not matter how many scriptures you can find. There are just as many scriptures that support Universalism as there are scripture supporting limited atonement. The most important person is you, and your salvation through Christ Jesus who died on the Cross for your sins. Don't worry about anybody else. If you have made Jesus Lord of your life, and are not conformed to the world, you are on solid ground. If you are talking supporting Universalism, it isn't supported by the early church and Jesus's prayer in John 17:9 -I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

When you become one with Christ, you do not belong to yourself any longer

1 Corinthians 6: 19-20 - Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore, glorify God in your body] and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Proverbs 3:5-6-
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

 

[Ritajanice]

Proverbs 3:5-6-
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

Took the Lord many, many years, to show me that I can trust him in every single situation...

I had a Father who let me down, then I married two husbands, one committed adultery, the other one, I can’t even disclose what he did, I then had to file for divorce.

I had always acknowledged God from the day my spirit became Born Again......I just had to learn to trust him...as I said, it took a long time...I trust my Father God now 100% ...His patience , gentleness and Love has gotten me through, only God knows how to treat his children...he has also disciplined me along the way..my testimony and belief.

 

[Rockerduck]

Took the Lord many, many years, to show me that I can trust him in every single situation...

I had a Father who let me down, then I married two husbands, one committed adultery, the other one, I can’t even disclose what he did, I then had to file for divorce.

I had always acknowledged God from the day my spirit became Born Again......I just had to learn to trust him...as I said, it took a long time...I trust my Father God now 100% ...His patience , gentleness and Love has gotten me through, only God knows how to treat his children...he has also disciplined me along the way..my testimony and belief.

Amen.

 

[shepherdsword]

It does not matter how many scriptures you can find. There are just as many scriptures that support Universalism as there are scripture supporting limited atonement. The most important person is you, and your salvation through Christ Jesus who died on the Cross for your sins. Don't worry about anybody else. If you have made Jesus Lord of your life, and are not conformed to the world, you are on solid ground. If you are talking supporting Universalism, it isn't supported by the early church and Jesus's prayer in John 17:9 -I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

When you become one with Christ, you do not belong to yourself any longer

1 Corinthians 6: 19-20 - Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore, glorify God in your body] and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Proverbs 3:5-6-
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

I don't think you understand " Universalism". I am not saying everyone will be saved...I am just saying that everyone has the opportunity if they desire. This has been overwhelmingly proven. However, you are partially right. it doesn't matter how many scriptures are presented to prove this if they are ignored.

 

[dremnant]

You may not have understood all the evidence and comment to this point that clearly shows limited atonement does not, cannot exist in scripture. It basically denies everything Christ accomplished. So, here are some more texts that clearly shows Limited atonement is denied in scripture.
Col 1:19-20 This is probably the most clear and comprehensive text that categorically denies limited atonement...

You are twisting the meaning of the text in Colossians 1:19-20 if you are saying "all things" mean "all people".

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Pay attention to the underlined phrases.

 

[Rockerduck]

I don't think you understand " Universalism". I am not saying everyone will be saved...I am just saying that everyone has the opportunity if they desire. This has been overwhelmingly proven. However, you are partially right. it doesn't matter how many scriptures are presented to prove this if they are ignored.

Many years I've combated Universalism in Churches. I can't tell you how many times I've heard " how can a loving God send someone to Hell". To the carnal mind, it sounds logical that everyone should or does have the opportunity to be saved. However, to the Christian in Christ, with the Holy Spirit, which gives us the mind of Christ, 1 Corinthians 2:16, A higher understanding of our salvation in Christ is understood through scripture. Jesus says His sheep know His voice. John 10:27. That is ownership that cannot be denied. In John 3:7 Jesus says must be born again. This is a condition to salvation. You can't just say, I want to be a Christian and go to Church. Did you meet that condition to be born again? The Father draws you to Himself John 6:44. This is another condition. Did you feel God call you to the Cross of Jesus.

 

[shepherdsword]

Many years I've combated Universalism in Churches.

You are mis defining "Universalism" That is a term reserved for those who think that in the final analysis...everyone will be reconciled to God. Some will not make it...but it's not because they were chosen to go to perdition.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard " how can a loving God send someone to Hell". To the carnal mind, it sounds logical that everyone should or does have the opportunity to be saved. However, to the Christian in Christ, with the Holy Spirit, which gives us the mind of Christ, 1 Corinthians 2:16, A higher understanding of our salvation in Christ is understood through scripture. Jesus says His sheep know His voice. John 10:27. That is ownership that cannot be denied.

We belong to Christ because we believe. This was established as far back as Gen 15:6

In John 3:7 Jesus says must be born again. This is a condition to salvation. You can't just say, I want to be a Christian and go to Church.

You can believe and be saved. This is a condition established all through scripture. I can provide numerous verses that show this but why bother? You will just ignore them

Did you meet that condition to be born again? The Father draws you to Himself John 6:44. This is another condition. Did you feel God call you to the Cross of Jesus.

The Father draws those who he foreknew. We can't go by "feelings" as they are an aspect of the soul that can be deceived. You sound like the mormons with their "burning in the bosom" witness. They think they are saved by that as well. What a real christian does is take God at his word and have faith until there is a breakthrough. I am going to leave you with this:

Ro 10:9-11
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Blessings

 

[Rockerduck]

You are mis defining "Universalism" That is a term reserved for those who think that in the final analysis...everyone will be reconciled to God. Some will not make it...but it's not because they were chosen to go to perdition.

We belong to Christ because we believe. This was established as far back as Gen 15:6

You can believe and be saved. This is a condition established all through scripture. I can provide numerous verses that show this but why bother? You will just ignore them

The Father draws those who he foreknew. We can't go by "feelings" as they are an aspect of the soul that can be deceived. You sound like the mormons with their "burning in the bosom" witness. They think they are saved by that as well. What a real christian does is take God at his word and have faith until there is a breakthrough. I am going to leave you with this:

Ro 10:9-11
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Blessings

Throwing names belittles you. Don't ever presume anything about me. You are stuck in your belief and only say I don't understand, so it must be me and not you. How convenient.